[Bug 13600] New: allow using glyphs from mlutiple fonts in font substitution
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13600 Summary: allow using glyphs from mlutiple fonts in font substitution Product: Wine Version: 1.0-rc1 Platform: PC-x86-64 OS/Version: Linux Status: UNCONFIRMED Severity: enhancement Priority: P2 Component: -unknown AssignedTo: wine-bugs(a)winehq.org ReportedBy: hramrach(a)centrum.cz As far as I know there are no acceptable quality fonts that would cover most Unicode ranges. Whatever font one chooses for Wine system font there are many glyphs that aren't present, and know no way to combine multiple fonts to provide the needed glyphs. The MS core fonts provide proportional fonts that at least do have glyphs in most ranges - iirc at least Latin, CJK, Cyrillic and Greek are covered. However, the readability of the fonts in different ranges varies, and they probably cannot be distributed with Wine because of license issues. What's worse, I know no fixed width font which covers a decent part of Unicode. In rxvt-unicode this problem is solved by creating an ordered list of fonts from which the glyphs are taken and resized appropriately. That way the Latin glyphs can be taken from a readable Western font, the CJK glyphs from a decent CJK font (which usually has some poor Latin glyphs as well but they are ignored because it comes after the Western one), etc. No problem with adding a special font for an exotic range without breaking the other ranges then. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13600 Dmitry Timoshkov <dmitry(a)codeweavers.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|UNCONFIRMED |RESOLVED Resolution| |INVALID --- Comment #1 from Dmitry Timoshkov <dmitry(a)codeweavers.com> 2008-06-02 03:20:25 --- That's not how Windows handles the fonts, and font linking is implemented in Wine. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13600 Dmitry Timoshkov <dmitry(a)codeweavers.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|RESOLVED |CLOSED --- Comment #2 from Dmitry Timoshkov <dmitry(a)codeweavers.com> 2008-06-02 03:20:37 --- Closing. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13600 --- Comment #3 from Dmitry Timoshkov <dmitry(a)codeweavers.com> 2008-06-02 07:08:38 --- Adding missing glyph ranges into the fonts is the way to go. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13600 Michal Suchanek <hramrach(a)centrum.cz> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|CLOSED |UNCONFIRMED Resolution|INVALID | --- Comment #4 from Michal Suchanek <hramrach(a)centrum.cz> 2008-06-03 08:26:27 --- So if I understand it correctly the fact that I do not see the characters correctly at least for the current locale is a bug in font linking. IE if I run an application that uses Japanese characters such as the one attached in bug 11281 I have to manually map the system fonts to some fonts that actually do contain glyphs for Japanese characters. And I also get the ugly Latin glyphs from these Japanese fonts then. And no, you cannot possibly ask authors of fonts for every obscure language to also add glyphs for all the other mainstream and obscure languages to their font so that their font is a most complete uber-font. Even if you did different people have different preferences for the shape of the font glyphs in different ranges. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13600 --- Comment #5 from Dmitry Timoshkov <dmitry(a)codeweavers.com> 2008-06-03 08:33:33 --- (In reply to comment #4)
So if I understand it correctly the fact that I do not see the characters correctly at least for the current locale is a bug in font linking.
Only if the characters are not there under Wine with the same fonts set available under Windows. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13600 --- Comment #6 from Michal Suchanek <hramrach(a)centrum.cz> 2008-06-03 08:58:57 --- (In reply to comment #5)
Only if the characters are not there under Wine with the same fonts set available under Windows.
I do not understand what you are trying to say here. The application JustWorks using MS Applocale under MS Windows. How do I make it display properly under Wine except by mapping the system fonts manually to Japanese fonts? The MS Japanese fonts are not freely available unlike the MS Core Fonts. Would I need those for font linking? If so, why those and not just any Japanese font? -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13600 --- Comment #7 from Dmitry Timoshkov <dmitry(a)codeweavers.com> 2008-06-03 09:23:06 --- What I say is that you need to compare Wine and Windows with the same fonts available in both systems. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13600 --- Comment #8 from Michal Suchanek <hramrach(a)centrum.cz> 2008-06-04 04:28:39 --- I will do that once the MS fonts are supplierd with Wine. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13600 Dmitry Timoshkov <dmitry(a)codeweavers.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|UNCONFIRMED |RESOLVED Resolution| |INVALID --- Comment #9 from Dmitry Timoshkov <dmitry(a)codeweavers.com> 2008-06-04 05:15:22 --- (In reply to comment #8)
I will do that once the MS fonts are supplierd with Wine.
No a Wine bug then. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13600 Dmitry Timoshkov <dmitry(a)codeweavers.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|RESOLVED |CLOSED --- Comment #10 from Dmitry Timoshkov <dmitry(a)codeweavers.com> 2008-06-04 05:15:33 --- Closing. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13600 Michal Suchanek <hramrach(a)centrum.cz> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|CLOSED |UNCONFIRMED Resolution|INVALID | --- Comment #11 from Michal Suchanek <hramrach(a)centrum.cz> 2008-06-04 06:26:44 --- What is at fault then when I canot read stuff? It works in windows, does not work in wine. No font is set up explicitly anywhere in either case. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13600 --- Comment #12 from Dmitry Timoshkov <dmitry(a)codeweavers.com> 2008-06-04 08:25:59 --- (In reply to comment #11)
What is at fault then when I canot read stuff? It works in windows, does not work in wine. No font is set up explicitly anywhere in either case.
You have answered this when opened the bug. Obviously if you are not going to investigate things according to my requests there is no need to reopen the bug. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13600 --- Comment #13 from Michal Suchanek <hramrach(a)centrum.cz> 2008-06-04 15:11:30 --- fwiw with Windows fonts the application shows black squares instead of empty spaces where the Japanese characters should be. However, there is no point in using Windows fonts here. There are several fonts that would cover all characters that can be encoded in EUC_JP in the system already. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13600 --- Comment #14 from Dmitry Timoshkov <dmitry(a)codeweavers.com> 2008-06-04 22:18:50 --- (In reply to comment #13)
fwiw with Windows fonts the application shows black squares instead of empty spaces where the Japanese characters should be.
What's your locale?
However, there is no point in using Windows fonts here. There are several fonts that would cover all characters that can be encoded in EUC_JP in the system already.
Do they have the same attributes as the Windows ones (font name, glyph ranges)? -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13600 --- Comment #15 from Michal Suchanek <hramrach(a)centrum.cz> 2008-06-05 04:42:41 --- (In reply to comment #14)
What's your locale?
Normally en_US.UTF-8 but his renders garbage instead of the Japanese characters. So I run LANG=ja_JP.UTF-8 wine testwin.exe which renders expected number of characters but the Japanese ones aren't displayed - only spaces or black squares are rendered instead.
However, there is no point in using Windows fonts here. There are several fonts that would cover all characters that can be encoded in EUC_JP in the system already.
Do they have the same attributes as the Windows ones (font name, glyph ranges)?
The glyph ranges should be sufficient. The font name is, of course, completely different. But you cannot expect that fonts named MS Mincho, MS Gothic or MS UI Gothic would be installed on all wine setups. These fonts are only available with Windows and cannot be normally obtained separately, unlike the MS Core Fonts. However, most Japanese font packages provide two font variants that contain Mincho and Gothic at the end of their font name. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13600 --- Comment #16 from Dmitry Timoshkov <dmitry(a)codeweavers.com> 2008-06-05 04:57:28 --- (In reply to comment #15)
So I run LANG=ja_JP.UTF-8 wine testwin.exe which renders expected number of characters but the Japanese ones aren't displayed - only spaces or black squares are rendered instead.
Does Wine notepad show japanese fonts in menus and in the text?
The glyph ranges should be sufficient. The font name is, of course, completely different. But you cannot expect that fonts named MS Mincho, MS Gothic or MS UI Gothic would be installed on all wine setups. These fonts are only available with Windows and cannot be normally obtained separately, unlike the MS Core Fonts.
If a Windows application hard codes font names (which is the case for most Windows applications) missing necessary fonts is fatal.
However, most Japanese font packages provide two font variants that contain Mincho and Gothic at the end of their font name.
That's not enough. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13600 --- Comment #17 from Michal Suchanek <hramrach(a)centrum.cz> 2008-06-05 05:15:44 --- (In reply to comment #16)
(In reply to comment #15)
So I run LANG=ja_JP.UTF-8 wine testwin.exe which renders expected number of characters but the Japanese ones aren't displayed - only spaces or black squares are rendered instead.
Does Wine notepad show japanese fonts in menus and in the text? No. I never get Japanese menus, and I have to manually choose a Japanese font for the text to show the Japanese characters.
However, regedit does show the date in International settings correctly. This is on an installation without Windows fonts.
If a Windows application hard codes font names (which is the case for most Windows applications) missing necessary fonts is fatal.
I have specifically written this application to test the functionality. As far as I can tell I have not hardcoded any font but you can examine the source to be sure.
However, most Japanese font packages provide two font variants that contain Mincho and Gothic at the end of their font name.
That's not enough.
What is enough then? If it is necessary to substitute the MS fonts to some fonts that exist I could do that in registry and Wine could perhaps do that automagically if at least some Mincho and Gothic fonts exist. Still even if those fonts exist there is apparently something missing as the application doesn't display correctly anyway. I can hack the registry to hardcode all system fonts to Japanese fonts but that breaks if I start an application that requires a different locale. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13600 --- Comment #18 from Dmitry Timoshkov <dmitry(a)codeweavers.com> 2008-06-05 05:59:01 --- (In reply to comment #17)
Does Wine notepad show japanese fonts in menus and in the text? No. I never get Japanese menus,
That's an indication of a not working Japanese locale.
I have specifically written this application to test the functionality. As far as I can tell I have not hardcoded any font but you can examine the source to be sure.
Where is the source?
However, most Japanese font packages provide two font variants that contain Mincho and Gothic at the end of their font name.
That's not enough.
What is enough then?
I've said it many times already: font name and glyph ranges.
If it is necessary to substitute the MS fonts to some fonts that exist I could do that in registry and Wine could perhaps do that automagically if at least some Mincho and Gothic fonts exist.
Probably, but that's not a general solution.
Still even if those fonts exist there is apparently something missing as the application doesn't display correctly anyway. I can hack the registry to hardcode all system fonts to Japanese fonts but that breaks if I start an application that requires a different locale.
Wine updates system fonts on locale change, and uses "MS UI Gothic" for japanese locale. "MS UI Gothic" should be manually mapped to some existing font with comparable properties. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13600 --- Comment #19 from Michal Suchanek <hramrach(a)centrum.cz> 2008-06-05 07:19:26 --- (In reply to comment #18)
(In reply to comment #17)
Does Wine notepad show japanese fonts in menus and in the text? No. I never get Japanese menus,
That's an indication of a not working Japanese locale.
Or an indication that nobody translated the menus into Japanese.
I have specifically written this application to test the functionality. As far as I can tell I have not hardcoded any font but you can examine the source to be sure.
Where is the source?
bug 11281
If it is necessary to substitute the MS fonts to some fonts that exist I could do that in registry and Wine could perhaps do that automagically if at least some Mincho and Gothic fonts exist.
Probably, but that's not a general solution.
What is a general solution then?
Still even if those fonts exist there is apparently something missing as the application doesn't display correctly anyway. I can hack the registry to hardcode all system fonts to Japanese fonts but that breaks if I start an application that requires a different locale.
Wine updates system fonts on locale change, and uses "MS UI Gothic" for japanese locale. "MS UI Gothic" should be manually mapped to some existing font with comparable properties.
So I tried in order: 1) substitute IPAUIGothic for MS UI Gothic result: ugly Latin glyphs in regedit tree view 2) substitute the corresponding IPA font for MS Gothic, MS PGothic, MS Mincho, MS PMincho result: no observed change 3) substitute MS UI Gothic for MS Shell Dlg 2 (instead of the default Tahoma) result: - 4) substitute MS UI Gothic for Tahoma result: - 5) substitute MS UI Gothic for System result: the test application displays Japanese characters -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13600 --- Comment #20 from Dmitry Timoshkov <dmitry(a)codeweavers.com> 2008-06-05 11:01:54 --- Created an attachment (id=13723) --> (http://bugs.winehq.org/attachment.cgi?id=13723) Modified test application (In reply to comment #19)
Does Wine notepad show japanese fonts in menus and in the text? No. I never get Japanese menus,
That's an indication of a not working Japanese locale. Or an indication that nobody translated the menus into Japanese.
Have you tried to look at the Wine source? notepad in Wine has Japanese menus.
I have specifically written this application to test the functionality. As far as I can tell I have not hardcoded any font but you can examine the source to be sure.
Where is the source? bug 11281
Does the attached modified test application work for you? It does for me. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13600 --- Comment #21 from Michal Suchanek <hramrach(a)centrum.cz> 2008-06-05 15:42:20 --- Hey, you are cheating! You explicitly look for a Japanese font, and even use wide character functions. That's not what a legacy application would look like, and these should work as well. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13600 --- Comment #22 from Dmitry Timoshkov <dmitry(a)codeweavers.com> 2008-06-05 20:32:17 --- (In reply to comment #21)
Hey, you are cheating!
No, I'm not. The modified application should show whether you have a working japanese locale.
You explicitly look for a Japanese font, and even use wide character functions.
Unicode APIs are not needed, I used them for testing.
That's not what a legacy application would look like, and these should work as well.
You haven't answered the question. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13600 --- Comment #23 from Michal Suchanek <hramrach(a)centrum.cz> 2008-06-06 04:09:10 --- (In reply to comment #22)
(In reply to comment #21)
Hey, you are cheating!
No, I'm not. The modified application should show whether you have a working japanese locale.
You could have said that earlier. I am pretty sure it is working but it is always good to test ;-)
You explicitly look for a Japanese font, and even use wide character functions.
Unicode APIs are not needed, I used them for testing.
That's not what a legacy application would look like, and these should work as well.
You haven't answered the question.
There's fortunately mingw for Linux so it was not so hard to try. It works for me, shows nice large letters, including the Japanese ones. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13600 --- Comment #24 from Dmitry Timoshkov <dmitry(a)codeweavers.com> 2008-06-06 04:26:41 --- (In reply to comment #23)
There's fortunately mingw for Linux so it was not so hard to try. It works for me, shows nice large letters, including the Japanese ones.
Then I don't see any Wine bug, all you have to do is to properly configure font replacements/substitutes, and that's not a Wine problem. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13600 --- Comment #25 from Michal Suchanek <hramrach(a)centrum.cz> 2008-06-06 08:31:16 --- (In reply to comment #24)
(In reply to comment #23)
There's fortunately mingw for Linux so it was not so hard to try. It works for me, shows nice large letters, including the Japanese ones.
Then I don't see any Wine bug, all you have to do is to properly configure font replacements/substitutes, and that's not a Wine problem.
And change the substitutions every time I want to run an application that uses a different language because there is no universal font and wine does not have the functionality to use multiple fonts for the purpose. That's why I wanted the possibility to use glyphs from multiple fonts for substitution. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13600 --- Comment #26 from Dmitry Timoshkov <dmitry(a)codeweavers.com> 2008-06-06 09:25:05 --- (In reply to comment #25)
Then I don't see any Wine bug, all you have to do is to properly configure font replacements/substitutes, and that's not a Wine problem.
And change the substitutions every time I want to run an application that uses a different language because there is no universal font and wine does not have the functionality to use multiple fonts for the purpose.
That's not different from Windows when required font is missing in the underlying system.
That's why I wanted the possibility to use glyphs from multiple fonts for substitution.
That possibility is implemented in Wine, but you need either install missing fonts, or properly configure font replacements/substitutes. I'm tempted to close this bug as invalid. You're claming that something is wrong but don't want to do a thing to fix your font config, or install missing fonts. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13600 --- Comment #27 from Michal Suchanek <hramrach(a)centrum.cz> 2008-06-06 10:25:38 --- (In reply to comment #26)
(In reply to comment #25)
Then I don't see any Wine bug, all you have to do is to properly configure font replacements/substitutes, and that's not a Wine problem.
And change the substitutions every time I want to run an application that uses a different language because there is no universal font and wine does not have the functionality to use multiple fonts for the purpose.
That's not different from Windows when required font is missing in the underlying system.
Yes, but Wine is not about replicating all deficiencies of Windows. It could do better sometimes ;-)
That's why I wanted the possibility to use glyphs from multiple fonts for substitution.
That possibility is implemented in Wine, but you need either install missing fonts, or properly configure font replacements/substitutes.
I do have the MS Japanese fonts substituted.
I'm tempted to close this bug as invalid. You're claming that something is wrong but don't want to do a thing to fix your font config, or install missing fonts.
I do fix my config. But I do see a deficiency in how it has to be done. On Windows there is an application that allows setting up the environment for legacy applications so that one can run legacy applications in different languages which would be roughly equivalent to running wine under different locales. Admittedly this impacts some other applications, probably because they are also legacy applications that do not use the Unicode interfaces. And this is probably what the Wine font linking would be like if it worked. There is apparently some attempt at such support which is probably what is called font linking: when wine is run in different locales some fonts are substituted in different way, automatically. However, this feature is largely unknown. When searching for it on the web I found a FAQ entry on the Wine wiki claiming Wine does not support it, and an old NEWS file pointing to a changelog that says the feature is implemented. Also this feature does not work for real world applications. This is because not enough fonts are linked. My application works on Windows, works if fonts are linked manually but does not work with Wine automatic font linking. This is the simplest application possible so it is probably how applications would be (and seem to be) written. Also font linking is undocumented and relies on existence of some random fonts so even if the feature worked correctly it is unlikely that it would be useful for actual users. On the other hand, I do not wonder the feature is listed as unimplemented in the FAQ. It simply does not work. The ability to compose fonts in substitutions or otherwise would obviate the need to automatically link fonts as a compound font that contains glyphs for all ranges the user wants to read could be created. Maybe that should not be done in wine but in something like Freetype. However, the current state of things is that applications do this in their own way - including the Wine's attempt at font linking. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13600 Dmitry Timoshkov <dmitry(a)codeweavers.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Summary|allow using glyphs from |Default Wine font setup |mlutiple fonts in font |doesn't always work in |substitution |japanese locale --- Comment #28 from Dmitry Timoshkov <dmitry(a)codeweavers.com> 2008-06-09 00:21:12 --- (In reply to comment #27)
That's not different from Windows when required font is missing in the underlying system. Yes, but Wine is not about replicating all deficiencies of Windows. It could do better sometimes ;-)
Predefined API behaviour and philosophical speculations are mutually exclusive things.
I do have the MS Japanese fonts substituted.
Please show that here.
However, this feature is largely unknown. When searching for it on the web I found a FAQ entry on the Wine wiki claiming Wine does not support it, and an old NEWS file pointing to a changelog that says the feature is implemented.
MSDN and Wine source are the docs. We also accept patches to improve Wine documentation, you are welcome to update the Wine wiki as well.
Also this feature does not work for real world applications. This is because not enough fonts are linked. My application works on Windows, works if fonts are linked manually but does not work with Wine automatic font linking. This is the simplest application possible so it is probably how applications would be (and seem to be) written.
Patches with appropriate test cases are welcome.
Also font linking is undocumented and relies on existence of some random fonts so even if the feature worked correctly it is unlikely that it would be useful for actual users. On the other hand, I do not wonder the feature is listed as unimplemented in the FAQ. It simply does not work.
It does work. For documentation see above. I'll update the summary to better reflect the problems you are talking about. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13600 --- Comment #29 from Michal Suchanek <hramrach(a)centrum.cz> 2008-06-09 05:42:04 --- (In reply to comment #28)
(In reply to comment #27)
That's not different from Windows when required font is missing in the underlying system. Yes, but Wine is not about replicating all deficiencies of Windows. It could do better sometimes ;-)
Predefined API behaviour and philosophical speculations are mutually exclusive things.
How is substituting fonts in a wine registry entry a predefined API behaviour? This is a minimal regedit file that fixes my application: REGEDIT4 [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\FontSubstitutes] "System"="MS Shell Dlg" [HKEY_USERS\S-1-5-4\Software\Wine\Fonts\Replacements] "MS UI Gothic"="Sazanami Gothic" Note that while the System font has to be redefined in a standard Windows location MS UI Gothic does not. Which in my book means that Wine can do whatever it wants as long as the MS UI Gothic ends up having the needed glyphs.
I do have the MS Japanese fonts substituted.
Please show that here.
REGEDIT4 [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\FontSubstitutes] "Arial CE,238"="Arial,238" "Arial CYR,204"="Arial,204" "Arial Greek,161"="Arial,161" "Arial TUR,162"="Arial,162" "Courier New CE,238"="Courier New,238" "Courier New CYR,204"="Courier New,204" "Courier New Greek,161"="Courier New,161" "Courier New TUR,162"="Courier New,162" "Helv"="MS Sans Serif" "Helvetica"="Arial" "MS Gothic"="IPAGothic" "MS Mincho"="IPAMincho" "MS PGothic"="IPAPGothic" "MS PMincho"="IPAPMincho" "MS Shell Dlg"="MS UI Gothic" "MS Shell Dlg 2"="Tahoma" "MS UI Gothic"="IPAUIGothic" "Times"="Times New Roman" "Times New Roman CE,238"="Times New Roman,238" "Times New Roman CYR,204"="Times New Roman,204" "Times New Roman Greek,161"="Times New Roman,161" "Times New Roman TUR,162"="Times New Roman,162" "Tms Rmn"="MS Serif"
However, this feature is largely unknown. When searching for it on the web I found a FAQ entry on the Wine wiki claiming Wine does not support it, and an old NEWS file pointing to a changelog that says the feature is implemented.
MSDN and Wine source are the docs. We also accept patches to improve Wine
Wine is supposed to be 1.0. If there are features that do not work out of the box and are only documented by the source these might be considered something experimental but not something the users are supposed to know and use.
documentation, you are welcome to update the Wine wiki as well.
There's no point as long as the feature is broken anyway.
Also this feature does not work for real world applications. This is because not enough fonts are linked. My application works on Windows, works if fonts are linked manually but does not work with Wine automatic font linking. This is the simplest application possible so it is probably how applications would be (and seem to be) written.
Patches with appropriate test cases are welcome.
I see two problems here: 1) the default font does not have glyphs for the current locale. - my application does not explicitly choose a font. This means there must be some 'default font' which is expected to work for the current locale on Windows but does not on Wine 2) font linking relies on certain fonts to be substituted (or copied from Windows) manually but does not produce any warning if they are not - for this to work out of the box font linking should a) find some Japanese fonts and substitute them for fonts that are expected to have Japanese glyphs on Windows - MS (P|UI |)Gothic, MS (P|)Mincho. MS Core fonts (Arial, Times New Roman, Courier) are available so one could expect these to be installed if needed. b) substitute the default font and system fonts that are expected to 'Just work' with one of those. This is currently done for MS Shell Dlg but at least System should be substituted as well. Some people also substitute Terminal, Fixedsys, MS Serif, and MS Sans Serif. I am not sure which of these are really used but at lest the default font (which appears to be System) should work. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13600 Dmitry Timoshkov <dmitry(a)codeweavers.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|UNCONFIRMED |RESOLVED Resolution| |INVALID --- Comment #30 from Dmitry Timoshkov <dmitry(a)codeweavers.com> 2008-06-09 05:50:48 --- (In reply to comment #29)
That's not different from Windows when required font is missing in the underlying system. Yes, but Wine is not about replicating all deficiencies of Windows. It could do better sometimes ;-)
Predefined API behaviour and philosophical speculations are mutually exclusive things. How is substituting fonts in a wine registry entry a predefined API behaviour?
Because Wine behaves the same way as Windows does when a font is missing.
This is a minimal regedit file that fixes my application: REGEDIT4 [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\FontSubstitutes] "System"="MS Shell Dlg" [HKEY_USERS\S-1-5-4\Software\Wine\Fonts\Replacements] "MS UI Gothic"="Sazanami Gothic"
That's exactly which I was talking about - a missing Windows font. This clearly makes this bug invalid. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13600 Dmitry Timoshkov <dmitry(a)codeweavers.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|RESOLVED |CLOSED --- Comment #31 from Dmitry Timoshkov <dmitry(a)codeweavers.com> 2008-06-09 05:50:58 --- Closing. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13600 Michal Suchanek <hramrach(a)centrum.cz> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|CLOSED |UNCONFIRMED Resolution|INVALID | --- Comment #32 from Michal Suchanek <hramrach(a)centrum.cz> 2008-06-09 06:26:51 --- (In reply to comment #30)
(In reply to comment #29)
That's not different from Windows when required font is missing in the underlying system. Yes, but Wine is not about replicating all deficiencies of Windows. It could do better sometimes ;-)
Predefined API behaviour and philosophical speculations are mutually exclusive things. How is substituting fonts in a wine registry entry a predefined API behaviour?
Because Wine behaves the same way as Windows does when a font is missing.
However, this whole bug is about emulating the existence of a font, not about behaviour of Wine when a font is missing.
This is a minimal regedit file that fixes my application: REGEDIT4 [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\FontSubstitutes] "System"="MS Shell Dlg" [HKEY_USERS\S-1-5-4\Software\Wine\Fonts\Replacements] "MS UI Gothic"="Sazanami Gothic"
That's exactly which I was talking about - a missing Windows font. This clearly makes this bug invalid.
Not really. First a system font that is expected to exist on Windows should not be missing for Wine to create a usable runtime emulation layer. Secondly looking at the trace it looks like the font in fact exists but is deficient. When running Notepad I get a font that is called 'System', looks as ugly as the one used in my test application when the fonts are not substituted (uppercase letters are shown using line width different from lowercase), and does not work for Japanese.
From the trace it looks like the font is jvgasys.fon. It claims to support Japanese (the only script the font selection dialog offers for it is Japanese) but does not have the Japanes glyphs - at least for the Kana characters I tried.
trace:font:AddFontToList Loading font file "/sw/bin/../lib/../bin/../lib/../bin/../lib/../bin/../lib/../share/wine/fonts/jvgasys.fon" index 0 trace:font:AddFontToList pix_h 18 charset 128 dpi 96x96 pt 14 trace:font:AddFontToList Adding bitmap size h 20 w 8 size 13 x_ppem 18 y_ppem 18 trace:font:AddFontToList fsCsb = 00020000 00000000/00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 trace:font:AddFontToList Added font L"System" L"Regular" -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13600 Dmitry Timoshkov <dmitry(a)codeweavers.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|UNCONFIRMED |RESOLVED Resolution| |INVALID --- Comment #33 from Dmitry Timoshkov <dmitry(a)codeweavers.com> 2008-06-09 07:46:43 --- (In reply to comment #32)
However, this whole bug is about emulating the existence of a font, not about behaviour of Wine when a font is missing.
Wine *does not* emulate an existence of a certain font. If a font is missing it should be added, that was the case for Tahoma, that's the case for Times New Roman (bug 9623).
This is a minimal regedit file that fixes my application: REGEDIT4 [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\FontSubstitutes] "System"="MS Shell Dlg" [HKEY_USERS\S-1-5-4\Software\Wine\Fonts\Replacements] "MS UI Gothic"="Sazanami Gothic"
That's exactly which I was talking about - a missing Windows font. This clearly makes this bug invalid.
Not really. First a system font that is expected to exist on Windows should not be missing for Wine to create a usable runtime emulation layer. Secondly looking at the trace it looks like the font in fact exists but is deficient. When running Notepad I get a font that is called 'System', looks as ugly as the one used in my test application when the fonts are not substituted (uppercase letters are shown using line width different from lowercase), and does not work for Japanese. From the trace it looks like the font is jvgasys.fon. It claims to support Japanese (the only script the font selection dialog offers for it is Japanese) but does not have the Japanes glyphs - at least for the Kana characters I tried.
jvgasys.fon does not contain japanese glyphs, a Windows one doesn't either. Please stop re-opening this bug, it is invalid. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13600 Dmitry Timoshkov <dmitry(a)codeweavers.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|RESOLVED |CLOSED --- Comment #34 from Dmitry Timoshkov <dmitry(a)codeweavers.com> 2008-06-09 07:48:05 --- Closing, do not reopen. If you want a certain font included in Wine - open a separate bug for it. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13600 Michal Suchanek <hramrach(a)centrum.cz> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|CLOSED |UNCONFIRMED Resolution|INVALID | --- Comment #35 from Michal Suchanek <hramrach(a)centrum.cz> 2008-06-09 08:15:34 --- (In reply to comment #34)
Closing, do not reopen. If you want a certain font included in Wine - open a separate bug for it.
(In reply to comment #33)
(In reply to comment #32)
However, this whole bug is about emulating the existence of a font, not about behaviour of Wine when a font is missing.
Wine *does not* emulate an existence of a certain font. If a font is missing it should be added, that was the case for Tahoma, that's the case for Times New Roman (bug 9623).
What's [HKEY_USERS\S-1-5-4\Software\Wine\Fonts\Replacements] for then?
jvgasys.fon does not contain japanese glyphs, a Windows one doesn't either.
Why is it chosen for the default Japanese font then?
Please stop re-opening this bug, it is invalid.
So you say that Wine not rendering some characters in aplications is OK, its not a bug? -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13600 Dmitry Timoshkov <dmitry(a)codeweavers.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|UNCONFIRMED |RESOLVED Resolution| |INVALID --- Comment #36 from Dmitry Timoshkov <dmitry(a)codeweavers.com> 2008-06-09 08:38:46 --- (In reply to comment #35)
Wine *does not* emulate an existence of a certain font. If a font is missing it should be added, that was the case for Tahoma, that's the case for Times New Roman (bug 9623). What's [HKEY_USERS\S-1-5-4\Software\Wine\Fonts\Replacements] for then?
That's a hack, and it has nothing to do with this bug.
jvgasys.fon does not contain japanese glyphs, a Windows one doesn't either. Why is it chosen for the default Japanese font then?
Ask Microsoft?
Please stop re-opening this bug, it is invalid.
So you say that Wine not rendering some characters in aplications is OK, its not a bug?
That's a bug, but not a problem imposed by Wine as has been explain numerous times already, i.e. that's not a Wine bug. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13600 Dmitry Timoshkov <dmitry(a)codeweavers.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|RESOLVED |CLOSED --- Comment #37 from Dmitry Timoshkov <dmitry(a)codeweavers.com> 2008-06-09 08:39:33 --- I'm going to close this bug without any further explanations. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13600 --- Comment #38 from Michal Suchanek <hramrach(a)centrum.cz> 2008-06-09 08:47:56 --- (In reply to comment #37)
I'm going to close this bug without any further explanations.
(In reply to comment #36)
(In reply to comment #35)
Wine *does not* emulate an existence of a certain font. If a font is missing it should be added, that was the case for Tahoma, that's the case for Times New Roman (bug 9623). What's [HKEY_USERS\S-1-5-4\Software\Wine\Fonts\Replacements] for then?
That's a hack, and it has nothing to do with this bug.
jvgasys.fon does not contain japanese glyphs, a Windows one doesn't either. Why is it chosen for the default Japanese font then?
Ask Microsoft?
It is not chosen in Windows because there the application works. So Microsoft has nothing to do with this one. Indeed there is a difference between Windows and Wine. The System font does not contain Japanese glyphs on either system but in Wine it claims to support Japanese script - Notepad font dialog offers the choice of Japanese script for the System font in Wine but not on Windows.
Please stop re-opening this bug, it is invalid.
So you say that Wine not rendering some characters in aplications is OK, its not a bug?
That's a bug, but not a problem imposed by Wine as has been explain numerous times already, i.e. that's not a Wine bug.
So what is at fault here here? Wine is supposed to be a runtime for Windows applications. I have an application that works on Windows and not in Wine. But wine is not at fault. So what is? -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13600 --- Comment #39 from Dmitry Timoshkov <dmitry(a)codeweavers.com> 2008-06-09 09:06:00 --- (In reply to comment #38)
Indeed there is a difference between Windows and Wine. The System font does not contain Japanese glyphs on either system but in Wine it claims to support Japanese script - Notepad font dialog offers the choice of Japanese script for the System font in Wine but not on Windows.
That's not true. I just changed the locale of my XP SP3 to Japanese, and notepad lists the Japanese script for System font.
So what is at fault here here? Wine is supposed to be a runtime for Windows applications. I have an application that works on Windows and not in Wine. But wine is not at fault. So what is?
This question has been answered numerous times in this bug: either install a missing font, or arrange the font substitutes. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13600 --- Comment #40 from Michal Suchanek <hramrach(a)centrum.cz> 2008-06-09 10:53:49 --- (In reply to comment #39)
(In reply to comment #38)
Indeed there is a difference between Windows and Wine. The System font does not contain Japanese glyphs on either system but in Wine it claims to support Japanese script - Notepad font dialog offers the choice of Japanese script for the System font in Wine but not on Windows.
That's not true. I just changed the locale of my XP SP3 to Japanese, and notepad lists the Japanese script for System font.
I only use applocale. I tried to switch to Japanese locale once but some applications still did not work and it did more damage to the rest of the system, too. When I switch to Japanese locale in Windows XP SP2 English the System font indeed does have Japanese script but also does contain the Japanese glyphs. At least when the System font is used to write Japanese text in Notepad it is displayed correctly, unlike in Wine. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13600 --- Comment #41 from Dmitry Timoshkov <dmitry(a)codeweavers.com> 2008-06-09 20:20:25 --- (In reply to comment #40)
When I switch to Japanese locale in Windows XP SP2 English the System font indeed does have Japanese script but also does contain the Japanese glyphs.
I'm getting tired of repeating the same things again and again. System font does not contain Japanese glyphs, what you see is a result of font linking (to a font existing in WIndows but missing in Wine).
At least when the System font is used to write Japanese text in Notepad it is displayed correctly, unlike in Wine.
And the reason has been explained already. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13600 Michal Suchanek <hramrach(a)centrum.cz> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|CLOSED |UNCONFIRMED Resolution|INVALID | --- Comment #42 from Michal Suchanek <hramrach(a)centrum.cz> 2008-06-10 07:54:38 --- (In reply to comment #41)
(In reply to comment #40)
When I switch to Japanese locale in Windows XP SP2 English the System font indeed does have Japanese script but also does contain the Japanese glyphs.
I'm getting tired of repeating the same things again and again. System font does not contain Japanese glyphs, what you see is a result of font linking (to a font existing in WIndows but missing in Wine).
If I read the code correctly in 1.0rc4 the font is actually not linked. There is some init_system_links function. Assuming it is actually executed it links System to Tahome but Tahoma is not linked to anything. On Windows the SystemLinks key sets up Tahoma to be linked to MS UI Gothic and MS UI Gothic to be linked to Chinese (and probably other) fonts. However, this key does not exist in Wine.
At least when the System font is used to write Japanese text in Notepad it is displayed correctly, unlike in Wine.
And the reason has been explained already.
-- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13600 Dmitry Timoshkov <dmitry(a)codeweavers.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|UNCONFIRMED |RESOLVED Resolution| |INVALID --- Comment #43 from Dmitry Timoshkov <dmitry(a)codeweavers.com> 2008-06-10 08:12:40 --- (In reply to comment #42)
If I read the code correctly in 1.0rc4 the font is actually not linked. There is some init_system_links function. Assuming it is actually executed it links System to Tahome but Tahoma is not linked to anything. On Windows the SystemLinks key sets up Tahoma to be linked to MS UI Gothic and MS UI Gothic to be linked to Chinese (and probably other) fonts. However, this key does not exist in Wine.
This key doesn't exist because Wine lacks any Japanese font. Comment #34 still applies. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13600 Dmitry Timoshkov <dmitry(a)codeweavers.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|RESOLVED |CLOSED --- Comment #44 from Dmitry Timoshkov <dmitry(a)codeweavers.com> 2008-06-10 08:12:54 --- Closing. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
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