[Bug 23114] New: Wine renders the fonts differently from the rest of the system
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23114 Summary: Wine renders the fonts differently from the rest of the system Product: Wine Version: 1.2-rc2 Platform: x86 OS/Version: Linux Status: UNCONFIRMED Severity: normal Priority: P2 Component: winex11.drv AssignedTo: wine-bugs(a)winehq.org ReportedBy: da_fox(a)mad.scientist.com Wine renders the fonts differently from the rest of the system. Wine claims to use the system settings for for rendering, however as can be seen in the screenshot provided in bug #17148 ("Use the system desktop setting for subpixel font smoothing."), it clearly differs from the rest of the system. Wine should render the fonts the same way as all other applications on the desktop. I've also provided the relevant system fontconfig settings as an attachment in bug #17148. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23114 Dmitry Timoshkov <dmitry(a)codeweavers.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Component|winex11.drv |-unknown Severity|normal |trivial --- Comment #1 from Dmitry Timoshkov <dmitry(a)codeweavers.com> 2010-06-11 04:34:49 --- Have you tried to select the same font in Wine's notepad and a native text editor and compare the result? Attaching (only small relevant parts) screenshots would be useful. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23114 da_fox(a)mad.scientist.com <da_fox(a)mad.scientist.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Component|-unknown |winex11.drv Severity|trivial |normal --- Comment #2 from da_fox(a)mad.scientist.com <da_fox(a)mad.scientist.com> 2010-06-11 10:04:02 --- (In reply to comment #1)
Have you tried to select the same font in Wine's notepad and a native text editor and compare the result? Attaching (only small relevant parts) screenshots would be useful.
Here is a good example: On the left is my favourite text editor, using the system settings, to the right is wine's notepad using the wrong settings. The font is DejaVu Sans, set to 10px. As you can see the text to the left is sharp, readable and has good contrast, whereas the text in notepad is blurry, hard to read an has poor contrast (it looks almost gray instead of black). -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23114 --- Comment #3 from da_fox(a)mad.scientist.com <da_fox(a)mad.scientist.com> 2010-06-11 10:04:52 --- Created an attachment (id=28735) --> (http://bugs.winehq.org/attachment.cgi?id=28735) Example of poor font rendering in wine -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23114 Dmitry Timoshkov <dmitry(a)codeweavers.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Component|winex11.drv |-unknown Severity|normal |trivial -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23114 A Wine user <RandomAccountName(a)mail.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |RandomAccountName(a)mail.com -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23114 Alexey Loukianov <mooroon2(a)mail.ru> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |mooroon2(a)mail.ru --- Comment #4 from Alexey Loukianov <mooroon2(a)mail.ru> 2010-06-22 02:31:50 --- I can confirm that there are noticeable differences between hod does the fonts rendered in wine-1.2-rc4 (actually in all 1.2-rcX except for 1.2-rc1 which behaved differently) and in the rest of the system. The trouble is that at the moment there is a pretty big mess in the ways fonts get rendered by applications on a linux desktop. First of all, there tends to be a lot of ways how the glyphs may be rendered nowdays: using only FreeType library, using Xft/libXft, using Cairo, using Pango, using some self-written native way and some more. Older versions of Gtk+ used pango for it's font renderings. Pango may use cairo, but there are backends that use Xft, FreeType, libx11 and some other. Newer GTK+ versions use cairo, same applies to the linux port of XUL-written apps (like Firefox). cairo and Xft both use FreeType for rendering and fontconfig library for determining correct font render properties to use. To complicate things even more there are some Xft.* Xresources available that might be used by Xft as a substitute/replacement to the fontconfig. Qt3 used fontconfig+FreeType, just like cairo and Xft. Qt4 partly switched away from fontconfig and implemented it's own LCD antialiasing for fonts. There were blog posts from Qt4.x developers stating that they are going to get back to use of fontconfig in Qt4.5. Some specific apps like OpenOffice use their own implementations of font rendering libraries. And another complications is that some users have got FreeType with (patented) BCI interpretor compiled in while most are not. Difficulties continue to stack when it comes to how were the font subpixel AA implemented. There are a bunch of patches out there, some for FreeType and some for cairo, each providing similar but a little bit different AA results. Most known is "ubuntu patch" which adds "ClearType-like" functionality to cairo independent from subpixel AA built-in in FreeType ("lcdfilter" settings in ~/.fonts.conf are handled by this patch). If you're still not lost in all this complexity then you should know that the library like GTK+ may use any other arbitary setting for fonts AA at the programmers will. On the other hand it is well-known bug that cairo library that should use fontconfig for configuration purposes sometimes silently ignores the user-specified settings and instead uses the defaults set in the Gnome Control Center. When it comes to Gnome applications it comes that the fonts AA behavior would be totally different depending on is the gnome-settings-daemon started or not. If it is then all Gnome apps will use font AA settings from the gconf registry (those set from the Gnome Control Center). If it is not - then the fontconfig defaults tend to be used but intersected with the Xft.* resources values. Taking all this to the bottom line: actually now there's no such thing on linux desktop as a "default settings for the system font rendering". That's why I don't think that the fact that Wine renders subpixel AA somewhat different should be considered a bug. Still, as now wine seems to be declaring that it will "Use the system desktop setting for subpixel font smoothing" (bug #17148 marked as CLOSED FIXED) it would be great to know two things: 1. What is the place this "system desktop setting" are taken from? 2. Are there any ways to set Wine to use other fonts AA settings than one detected to be set for the "system desktop"? If the answer for the question 2 is "no ways" then it is definitely a regression in Wine functionality as before it was possible to have one settings for Wine apps and another for other system. P.S. Side question is the current purpose of the "FontSmoothing"/"FontSmoothingType" registry keys as it seems to me that the fix to the bug #17148 made them obsolete. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23114 --- Comment #5 from Dmitry Timoshkov <dmitry(a)codeweavers.com> 2010-06-22 02:54:02 --- (In reply to comment #4)
Still, as now wine seems to be declaring that it will "Use the system desktop setting for subpixel font smoothing" (bug #17148 marked as CLOSED FIXED) it would be great to know two things: 1. What is the place this "system desktop setting" are taken from?
It's Fontconfig.
2. Are there any ways to set Wine to use other fonts AA settings than one detected to be set for the "system desktop"?
That's the strange question, if you know what the bug 17148 is about.
If the answer for the question 2 is "no ways" then it is definitely a regression in Wine functionality as before it was possible to have one settings for Wine apps and another for other system.
It's not a regression, it's an improvement, otherwise the bug 17148 would not be fixed. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23114 --- Comment #6 from Alexey Loukianov <mooroon2(a)mail.ru> 2010-06-22 03:50:02 --- (In reply to comment #5)
1. What is the place this "system desktop setting" are taken from? It's Fontconfig.
Ok. And how does it relate with "Xft.*" Xresources? Who does take the precedence (and why)?
2. Are there any ways to set Wine to use other fonts AA settings than one detected to be set for the "system desktop"?
That's the strange question, if you know what the bug 17148 is about.
As a developer a would thought that that bug was about the _default_ wine behavior. Making new behavior mandatory is a major change that I consider to be regression. As always my considerations might (and actually does) differ with ones the real wine developers have.
It's not a regression, it's an improvement, otherwise the bug 17148 would not be fixed. It's offtop here but that bug is actually not fixed. It is perfectly possible to set antialias to "false" in ~/.fonts.conf (resulting in Qt3 and GTK apps to stop using font smoothing) and still have got it enabled in wine-1.2-rc4 due to Xft.antialias set to "true". Easily reproducible on my workstation, I may provide the configuration details and proving screenshots if needed.
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http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23114 --- Comment #7 from Dmitry Timoshkov <dmitry(a)codeweavers.com> 2010-06-22 04:08:02 --- (In reply to comment #6)
(In reply to comment #5)
1. What is the place this "system desktop setting" are taken from? It's Fontconfig.
Ok. And how does it relate with "Xft.*" Xresources? Who does take the precedence (and why)?
See the fontconfig documentation/source.
2. Are there any ways to set Wine to use other fonts AA settings than one detected to be set for the "system desktop"?
That's the strange question, if you know what the bug 17148 is about.
As a developer a would thought that that bug was about the _default_ wine behavior. Making new behavior mandatory is a major change that I consider to be regression. As always my considerations might (and actually does) differ with ones the real wine developers have.
Since the Wine behaviour now is configurable by the native means and should potentially match what other applications do I don't see a problem here.
It's not a regression, it's an improvement, otherwise the bug 17148 would not be fixed. It's offtop here but that bug is actually not fixed. It is perfectly possible to set antialias to "false" in ~/.fonts.conf (resulting in Qt3 and GTK apps to stop using font smoothing) and still have got it enabled in wine-1.2-rc4 due to Xft.antialias set to "true". Easily reproducible on my workstation, I may provide the configuration details and proving screenshots if needed.
If Wine behaviour doesn't match what other Linux applications do that's another problem, and it's the subject of this bug report. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23114 --- Comment #8 from Alexandre Julliard <julliard(a)winehq.org> 2010-06-22 04:12:25 --- (In reply to comment #6)
It's offtop here but that bug is actually not fixed. It is perfectly possible to set antialias to "false" in ~/.fonts.conf (resulting in Qt3 and GTK apps to stop using font smoothing) and still have got it enabled in wine-1.2-rc4 due to Xft.antialias set to "true". Easily reproducible on my workstation, I may provide the configuration details and proving screenshots if needed.
The Wine strategy is an approximation, in particular because we also have to respect what the app itself requests. It's quite possible that behavior with contradictory configurations doesn't quite match what other apps do; I don't think that's a particularly interesting case. Besides, as you mentioned, there's no clear standard to follow anyway. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23114 --- Comment #9 from Alexey Loukianov <mooroon2(a)mail.ru> 2010-06-22 04:38:54 --- (In reply to comment #7)
See the fontconfig documentation/source.
Good catch, thanks. Will take a look into fc source, hope the relations with the Xft resources would become more clear for me then.
If Wine behaviour doesn't match what other Linux applications do that's another problem, and it's the subject of this bug report.
As I know a bunch of cases when with some set of the fc/Xresources settings the font AA behavior would be different fot GTK+, XUL and Qt3 apps I still don't think that it should be considered the bug. It is perfectly enough for wine to have well-determined and documented behavior of how to configure fonts AA. You have posted that for now the "system defaults" are configured by fontconfig so the only non-documented question left is what is the current purpose of "FontSmoothing"/"FontSmoothingType" registry values. Wine's approach that "fonts anti-aliasing system desktop defaults" are configured with fontconfig is good enough for me to be content with it. The fact that there are some other apps violating this "configuration rule" is not a wine's fault thus is not a wine bug. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23114 Sergiy Zuban <s.zuban(a)gmail.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|UNCONFIRMED |NEW Ever Confirmed|0 |1 --- Comment #10 from Sergiy Zuban <s.zuban(a)gmail.com> 2010-06-22 07:12:33 --- *** This bug has been confirmed by popular vote. *** -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23114 Sergiy Zuban <s.zuban(a)gmail.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |s.zuban(a)gmail.com -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23114 --- Comment #11 from da_fox(a)mad.scientist.com <da_fox(a)mad.scientist.com> 2010-06-29 06:23:23 --- still not fixed in 1.2_rc5 Also, I don't have any Xft settings that I can see, aside from xfce's Xft.xrdb: dafox(a)shogoki ~ $ locate -i xft | grep -i "conf\|cfg" /home/dafox/.config/xfce4/Xft.xrdb /usr/share/man/man1/xft-config.1.bz2 /usr/lib/pkgconfig/xft.pc /usr/lib/pkgconfig/pangoxft.pc /usr/bin/xft-config .config/xfce4/Xft.xrdb seems to only be used by GTK apps. For example when I set antialias to false and hinting to none (using xfce4-appearance-settings, which edits ~/.config/xfce4/Xft.xrdb), both firefox (Mozilla app) and gitk (tcl/tk app) still use the global font-config settings. GTK applications (i.e. the rest of the desktop) however do pickup on those Xft settings. Wine however still does whatever it wants to do, ignoring both the font-config settings *and* Xft settings. If wine does not want to read GTK or Xfce's Xft settings (which I find perfectly reasonable, since it's not a GTK application), it should use the settings specified by font-config (e.g. /etc/fonts/fonts.conf and /etc/fonts/local.conf). -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23114 --- Comment #12 from Alexey Loukianov <mooroon2(a)mail.ru> 2010-06-29 16:18:19 --- (In reply to comment #11)
still not fixed in 1.2_rc5
Also, I don't have any Xft settings that I can see, aside from xfce's Xft.xrdb: .... cut a lot here ....
Don't you thing that this bug reported by you is about a slightly different thing? It seems to me that it is primarily about the fact that Wine renders fonts differently than the other apps on the system even when they use the same configuration (i.e. Wine's subpixel rendering and hinting are not looking the same as KDE/GTK+/GTK2 ones. Part of the problem with fontconfig vs. Xft settings selection had been fixed with pretty simple and straightforward patch closing bug 23006. You may wish to try the current git to verify that the things got much better now. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23114 --- Comment #13 from butraxz(a)gmail.com 2013-06-27 12:43:16 CDT --- This ticket has not been updated for over 900 days. Is this still an issue in wine version 1.6-rc3 or higher or is this to be closed as abandoned ? -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.winehq.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are watching all bug changes.
https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23114 Austin English <austinenglish(a)gmail.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |RESOLVED Resolution|--- |ABANDONED --- Comment #14 from Austin English <austinenglish(a)gmail.com> --- (In reply to butraxz from comment #13)
This ticket has not been updated for over 900 days.
Is this still an issue in wine version 1.6-rc3 or higher or is this to be closed as abandoned ?
Abandoned. -- Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.
https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23114 Austin English <austinenglish(a)gmail.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|RESOLVED |CLOSED --- Comment #15 from Austin English <austinenglish(a)gmail.com> --- Closing. -- Do not reply to this email, post in Bugzilla using the above URL to reply. You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.
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