Sources of noise on test.winehq.org?

[Dan Kegel]

(This was last discussed in February, e.g.
http://www.winehq.org/pipermail/wine-devel/2009-February/073060.html )

The results on test.winehq.org seem more variable than one
would expect, which makes it harder to gauge wine's progress.

I can think of two sources of noise:
1) 32 and 64 bit results are mixed together
2) we don't have a stable stable (sic) of machines
running the tests

Removing these two sources of noise might be as simple as
1) omit 64 bit results, and
2) omit computers for which results are not
consistently available throughout the time range
being displayed

Shouldn't be too hard for someone to whip together an
alternate report that did that.  Wish I had the time to...
- Dan

[Paul Vriens]

Dan Kegel wrote:
> (This was last discussed in February, e.g.
> http://www.winehq.org/pipermail/wine-devel/2009-February/073060.html )
>
> The results on test.winehq.org seem more variable than one
> would expect, which makes it harder to gauge wine's progress.
>
> I can think of two sources of noise:
> 1) 32 and 64 bit results are mixed together
> 2) we don't have a stable stable (sic) of machines
> running the tests
>
> Removing these two sources of noise might be as simple as
> 1) omit 64 bit results, and
> 2) omit computers for which results are not
> consistently available throughout the time range
> being displayed
>
> Shouldn't be too hard for someone to whip together an
> alternate report that did that.  Wish I had the time to...
> - Dan

So what constitutes a stable machine? I for one am using VMware for most 
of my boxes which are clean installs but up-to-date with patches and 
such. After running winetest they will be reverted to the last correct 
snapshot (winetest still leaves a lot of rubbish around that could 
potentially influence a next run).

Side note:
One thing I'd also like to see (on first glance) on test.winehq.org is 
whether we are dealing with a real box or a virtualized one.

Side note 2:
Our index per build pages are almost 4MB in size. Splitting things up 
will also cut down on that.

-- 
Cheers,

Paul.

[Dan Kegel]

On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 3:41 AM, Paul Vriens <paul.vriens.wine(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > 2) we don't have a stable stable (sic) of machines
> > running the tests
>
> So what constitutes a stable machine?

I wasn't complaining about unstable machines;
I was complaining that the set of machines reporting test
results varies.
- Dan

[Paul Vriens]

Dan Kegel wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 3:41 AM, Paul Vriens <paul.vriens.wine(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > > 2) we don't have a stable stable (sic) of machines
> > > running the tests
> > > So what constitutes a stable machine?
>
> I wasn't complaining about unstable machines;
> I was complaining that the set of machines reporting test
> results varies.
> - Dan

Ok, got it. So how do we come up with a stable set?

Or do you just like to have some kind of script that fetches the reports 
for a fixed set of boxes (configurable) and generate pages like 
test.winehq.org?

-- 
Cheers,

Paul.

[Dan Kegel]

On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 3:54 AM, Paul Vriens <paul.vriens.wine(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > I wasn't complaining about unstable machines;
> > I was complaining that the set of machines reporting test
> > results varies.
>
> Ok, got it. So how do we come up with a stable set?

My suggestion for that was:

2) omit computers for which results are not
consistently available throughout the time range
being displayed
> Or do you just like to have some kind of script that fetches the reports for
> a fixed set of boxes (configurable) and generate pages like test.winehq.org?

Quick and dirty way would be to take the same script that generates
test.winehq.org, change it a bit to omit 64 bit
results and computers that didn't report every time,
and save its results in test.winehq.org/data/index-filtered.html or something.
- Dan

[Paul Vriens]

Paul Vriens wrote:
> Dan Kegel wrote:
> > On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 3:41 AM, Paul Vriens 
> > <paul.vriens.wine(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > 2) we don't have a stable stable (sic) of machines
> > > > running the tests
> > > > So what constitutes a stable machine?
> >
> > I wasn't complaining about unstable machines;
> > I was complaining that the set of machines reporting test
> > results varies.
> > - Dan
>
> Ok, got it. So how do we come up with a stable set?

Sorry, just read your message again and you mentioned 'consistently 
available'. That in itself shouldn't be to hard to code, but people do 
have holidays ;)

-- 
Cheers,

Paul.

[Rob Shearman]

2009/4/9 Dan Kegel <dank(a)kegel.com>:
> (This was last discussed in February, e.g.
> http://www.winehq.org/pipermail/wine-devel/2009-February/073060.html )
>
> The results on test.winehq.org seem more variable than one
> would expect, which makes it harder to gauge wine's progress.
>
> I can think of two sources of noise:
> 1) 32 and 64 bit results are mixed together
> 2) we don't have a stable stable (sic) of machines
> running the tests
>
> Removing these two sources of noise might be as simple as
> 1) omit 64 bit results, and

Not a bad idea, but I would suggest classifying these machines as a
different category (I would suggest "other" for the moment) rather
than omitting the results.
> 2) omit computers for which results are not
> consistently available throughout the time range
> being displayed
>
> Shouldn't be too hard for someone to whip together an
> alternate report that did that.  Wish I had the time to...

-- 
Rob Shearman

[Dan Kegel]

On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 5:09 AM, Rob Shearman <robertshearman(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > Removing these two sources of noise might be as simple as
> > 1) omit 64 bit results, and
>
> Not a bad idea, but I would suggest classifying these machines as a
> different category (I would suggest "other" for the moment) rather
> than omitting the results.

Or just a separate output file, if we're in quick and dirty mode.

[Alexandre Julliard]

Rob Shearman <robertshearman(a)gmail.com> writes:
> 2009/4/9 Dan Kegel <dank(a)kegel.com>:
> > (This was last discussed in February, e.g.
> > http://www.winehq.org/pipermail/wine-devel/2009-February/073060.html )
> >
> > The results on test.winehq.org seem more variable than one
> > would expect, which makes it harder to gauge wine's progress.
> >
> > I can think of two sources of noise:
> > 1) 32 and 64 bit results are mixed together
> > 2) we don't have a stable stable (sic) of machines
> > running the tests
> >
> > Removing these two sources of noise might be as simple as
> > 1) omit 64 bit results, and
>
> Not a bad idea, but I would suggest classifying these machines as a
> different category (I would suggest "other" for the moment) rather
> than omitting the results.

Having the 64-bit results in the same platform group as the 32-bit ones
is actually very helpful, it makes comparing them a lot easier. I don't
think we want to split them.

-- 
Alexandre Julliard
julliard(a)winehq.org

[Dan Kegel]

On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 10:17 AM, Alexandre Julliard <julliard(a)winehq.org> wrote:
> Having the 64-bit results in the same platform group as the 32-bit ones
> is actually very helpful, it makes comparing them a lot easier. I don't
> think we want to split them.

But suppressing or splitting the results from machines
that don't have a full set of results shouldn't hurt...

[Paul Vriens]

Dan Kegel wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 10:17 AM, Alexandre Julliard <julliard(a)winehq.org> wrote:
> > Having the 64-bit results in the same platform group as the 32-bit ones
> > is actually very helpful, it makes comparing them a lot easier. I don't
> > think we want to split them.
>
> But suppressing or splitting the results from machines
> that don't have a full set of results shouldn't hurt...

How many runs should have a box have before it's considered for the 
'stable' list? We have 2 months worth of data, which roughly means 40 runs.

-- 
Cheers,

Paul.

[Dan Kegel]

On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 10:50 AM, Paul Vriens <paul.vriens.wine(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > But suppressing or splitting the results from machines
> > that don't have a full set of results shouldn't hurt...
>
> How many runs should have a box have before it's considered for the 'stable'
> list? We have 2 months worth of data, which roughly means 40 runs.

Easy: if it misses >= N reports during the period
being displayed, skip it.  N=1 would be strict.
We'd want to pick the lowest N that left enough data,
I suspect.

[Alexandre Julliard]

Dan Kegel <dank(a)kegel.com> writes:
> On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 10:17 AM, Alexandre Julliard <julliard(a)winehq.org> wrote:
> > Having the 64-bit results in the same platform group as the 32-bit ones
> > is actually very helpful, it makes comparing them a lot easier. I don't
> > think we want to split them.
>
> But suppressing or splitting the results from machines
> that don't have a full set of results shouldn't hurt...

I don't see the point. If you want statistics for a specific machine,
sure, we could generate a page for that. But the global index should
show all the results we have. If it shows too many failures it means the
tests are not robust enough across machines and should be fixed, not
ignored.

-- 
Alexandre Julliard
julliard(a)winehq.org