I just saw this linux distribution on distrowatch. They claim to be able to run all microsoft products. Interesting. http://www.imagicos.com/ http://www.imagicos.com/microsoft.html _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_explore_022009
2009/2/7 EA Durbin <ead1234(a)hotmail.com>:
I just saw this linux distribution on distrowatch. They claim to be able to run all microsoft products. Interesting. http://www.imagicos.com/ http://www.imagicos.com/microsoft.html
No they don't. It says "almost every" on the home page and "most" on the "Microsoft" page. Assuming they're talking about Wine, someone should tell them that they're wrong anyway. "quite a lot of entirely win32 applications", maybe. Almost certainly not "most". Ooh, just spotted some interesting items on their "tested applications" list. - DirectX - DirectX 6 - DirectX 7 - DirectX 8 - DirectX 9 How about we just completely ignore these idiots?
That and I can't the source code anywhere on their site.
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 12:16:09 +1100 Subject: Re: imagicos From: shacklein(a)gmail.com To: ead1234(a)hotmail.com CC: wine-devel(a)winehq.org
2009/2/7 EA Durbin <ead1234(a)hotmail.com>:
I just saw this linux distribution on distrowatch. They claim to be able to run all microsoft products. Interesting. http://www.imagicos.com/ http://www.imagicos.com/microsoft.html
No they don't. It says "almost every" on the home page and "most" on the "Microsoft" page.
Assuming they're talking about Wine, someone should tell them that they're wrong anyway. "quite a lot of entirely win32 applications", maybe. Almost certainly not "most".
Ooh, just spotted some interesting items on their "tested applications" list. - DirectX - DirectX 6 - DirectX 7 - DirectX 8 - DirectX 9
How about we just completely ignore these idiots?
_________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_0220...
On Fri, 6 Feb 2009 19:18:04 -0600 EA Durbin <ead1234(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
That and I can't the source code anywhere on their site.
Here is a copy of what I have send to then.
I want the source code of the version(s) of Wine you package with your OS. If you have not read Wine's license now is the time to do so.
I have downloaded the copy of wine thats on there site, Its wine version 0.9.46! If you read the version in full you will see its copied from the Ubuntu repo. This whole thing would be funny if it was not for: Read cost. http://www.imagicos.com/why.html Rip off! http://www.imagicos.com/get.html After a bit more reading it looks like they buy a copy of Crossover games and add some open source software and sell it on at 3 times the price. After all that I feel sick.
2009/2/7 IneedAname <wineappdb(a)googlemail.com>:
On Fri, 6 Feb 2009 19:18:04 -0600 EA Durbin <ead1234(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
That and I can't the source code anywhere on their site.
Here is a copy of what I have send to then.
I want the source code of the version(s) of Wine you package with your OS. If you have not read Wine's license now is the time to do so.
I have downloaded the copy of wine thats on there site, Its wine version 0.9.46! If you read the version in full you will see its copied from the Ubuntu repo.
This whole thing would be funny if it was not for:
Read cost. http://www.imagicos.com/why.html
"The cost is justified because it can run a bunch of Windows apps that you shouldn't run because we supply alternatives with it." Great, just great.
Rip off! http://www.imagicos.com/get.html
After a bit more reading it looks like they buy a copy of Crossover games and add some open source software and sell it on at 3 times the price.
I wonder if Codeweavers would be happy with these guys reselling the Crossover suite ...
After all that I feel sick.
F.Y.I Re: Alternative to Vista, iMagic OS http://www.pcreview.co.uk/forums/thread-3622082.php MiOS for free!, MiOS will soon be for free http://www.joejoe.org/forum/index.php?s=cfb4dd58b56fe0a1f7a88fba92e4b16d&sho... MiOS Developer Preview, Request your self to Test! http://www.joejoe.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=17470&st=20&p=219000&#entry2... "I am Carlos La Borde, the creator of MiOS" http://whois.domaintools.com/imagicos.com Make Yahoo!7 your homepage and win a trip to the Quiksilver Pro. Find out more
Don't you think you guys are being kinda tough on a CodeWeavers reseller? and how the HELL is it a rip off? a single copy of CrossOver pro cost $69.95 retail.. And your getting the OS and support with the OS. So they bundle a older version of Wine, maybe it's the version that was current during their testing cycle for the OS release.
From what Ive read on this thread all your going to do is run resellers away from CodeWeavers and small distro's away from bundling Wine.
Clap, Clap, Clap I hope you're all happy now! Maybe if you tried to be more constructive and less destructive you would accomplish allot more then what you have with this Rant, flame, troll, fubar thread. Tom On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 11:23 AM, IneedAname <wineappdb(a)googlemail.com>wrote:
Read cost. http://www.imagicos.com/why.html
Rip off! http://www.imagicos.com/get.html
After a bit more reading it looks like they buy a copy of Crossover games and add some open source software and sell it on at 3 times the price.
After all that I feel sick.
2009/2/8 Tom Wickline <twickline(a)gmail.com>:
And your getting the OS and support with the OS. Wrong. Read the license. They offer absolutely no support for the OS. You're buying the binaries and that's it. (This could be a violation of GPL too)
From what Ive read on this thread all your going to do is run resellers away from CodeWeavers and small distro's away from bundling Wine. I would have thought that small distros would be the worst people to bundle Wine, especially if they charge for it under the illusion of support. At least the larger distros have the resources to do limited support of running apps in Wine before sending them off to winehq.
Clap, Clap, Clap
I hope you're all happy now!
No matter what you think, this particular distro looks very shifty to me. Possible license violations (not that I'm an expert, and I'd welcome an expert opinion).
Maybe if you tried to be more constructive and less destructive you would accomplish allot more then what you have with this Rant, flame, troll, fubar thread.
It's still amusing that they list Mac OS X in their "tested Windows applications" list ...
Tom
On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 11:23 AM, IneedAname <wineappdb(a)googlemail.com> wrote:
Read cost. http://www.imagicos.com/why.html
Rip off! http://www.imagicos.com/get.html
After a bit more reading it looks like they buy a copy of Crossover games and add some open source software and sell it on at 3 times the price.
After all that I feel sick.
On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 10:59 PM, Ben Klein <shacklein(a)gmail.com> wrote:
2009/2/8 Tom Wickline <twickline(a)gmail.com>:
And your getting the OS and support with the OS. Wrong. Read the license. They offer absolutely no support for the OS. You're buying the binaries and that's it. (This could be a violation of GPL too)
They have a support forum, im sure they would help people with issues.
From what Ive read on this thread all your going to do is run resellers away from CodeWeavers and small distro's away from bundling Wine. I would have thought that small distros would be the worst people to bundle Wine, especially if they charge for it under the illusion of support. At least the larger distros have the resources to do limited support of running apps in Wine before sending them off to winehq.
Clap, Clap, Clap
I hope you're all happy now!
No matter what you think, this particular distro looks very shifty to me. Possible license violations (not that I'm an expert, and I'd welcome an expert opinion).
What's shitty about it? they are a small distro who is bundling CrossOver and Wine and annoucing that they provide support for a select number of Windows applications and games.. Seems to me you would be delighted by this publisity of Wine. Also, IneedAname CrossOver Pro cost $69.95 up until yesterday, then it went on Valintines Day sale and was ruducet to $59.95 ... See: http://www.wine-reviews.net/wine-reviews/cxoffice-linux/codeweavers-valentin... And even if they are in some way vilolating the GPL by not hosting the operating systems source that has absoloutly nothing to do with Wine... You guy's need to take that up with gnu.org Tom
2009/2/8 Tom Wickline <twickline(a)gmail.com>:
On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 10:59 PM, Ben Klein <shacklein(a)gmail.com> wrote:
2009/2/8 Tom Wickline <twickline(a)gmail.com>:
And your getting the OS and support with the OS. Wrong. Read the license. They offer absolutely no support for the OS. You're buying the binaries and that's it. (This could be a violation of GPL too)
They have a support forum, im sure they would help people with issues.
Their license actually says that they don't provide support. http://www.imagicos.com/get.html 7: GENERAL "Licensor has no obligation to provide support, maintenance, upgrades, modifications or new releases under this Agreement." Argue the semantics of "obligation" if you will, but their license actually says they're not selling support at all.
No matter what you think, this particular distro looks very shifty to me. Possible license violations (not that I'm an expert, and I'd welcome an expert opinion).
What's shitty about it? Shifty. With an 'f'. AKA "dodgy", AKA "don't trust them to open a can of beans"
they are a small distro who is bundling CrossOver and Wine and annoucing that they provide support for a select number of Windows applications and games.. Seems to me you would be delighted by this publisity of Wine.
What publicity? The fact that it was brought to the attention of wine-devel? Is anyone ELSE talking about it?
Also, IneedAname CrossOver Pro cost $69.95 up until yesterday, then it went on Valintines Day sale and was ruducet to $59.95 ...
See: http://www.wine-reviews.net/wine-reviews/cxoffice-linux/codeweavers-valentin...
Part of the problem with iMagic is they don't actually tell you what you get. They make a reference to Wine here, a reference to Crossover there. Someone suggested that they ship Crossover Games. Isn't that cheaper than Pro?
And even if they are in some way vilolating the GPL by not hosting the operating systems source
Not the problem. 1) Source of individual apps can be retrieved from appropriate websites. As long as the websites are referenced in the distro's documentation of each app, they're within the grounds of GPL. 2) They don't have to license their own code written for the distro under GPL What it seems to me is that they are selling binaries, not support. They could be selling licenses (for Crossover, mp3 etc), but that's not a matter for us to resolve. If it is determined that what they are selling is binaries, then I'm almost certain that is a violation of GPL.
From memory, GPL allows you to charge for the cost of delivering the software (e.g. CD media, postage), but not the binaries themselves.
that has absoloutly nothing to do with Wine... You guy's need to take that up with gnu.org
I've asked FSF licensing people for their opinion. It could be interesting, but it's likely a complicated case due to poor information provided by iMagic and shipping with multiple commercial licenses.
Tom
Am Sonntag, den 08.02.2009, 02:57 +1100 schrieb Ben Klein:
And even if they are in some way vilolating the GPL by not hosting the operating systems source
Not the problem. 1) Source of individual apps can be retrieved from appropriate websites. As long as the websites are referenced in the distro's documentation of each app, they're within the grounds of GPL. First, I am not a lawyer. But the GPL (version 2) says that you have to provide the source code *yourself*. Either by shipping it together with the binaries (section 3a) or by giving you a written offer that they will provide the sourcode to *anyone* who asks for it for a cost not higher than the costs of performing the distribution (section 3b). If you are a noncommercial entity (which iMagic OS definitely is not), passing on the written offer is also enough (section 3c). Finally, if you distribute by offering a download, you have to offer a source download *from the same place* (last paragraph of section 3).
2) They don't have to license their own code written for the distro under GPL Correct. But only if they don't link GPL libraries.
What it seems to me is that they are selling binaries, not support. They could be selling licenses (for Crossover, mp3 etc), but that's not a matter for us to resolve. If it is determined that what they are selling is binaries, then I'm almost certain that is a violation of GPL. No, it is not. You may charge as much as you want for binaries of GPL programs. You just have to allow your clients to pass it on for free.
From memory, GPL allows you to charge for the cost of delivering the software (e.g. CD media, postage), but not the binaries themselves. This just applies to the source code.
Regards, Michael Karcher
On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 4:57 PM, Ben Klein <shacklein(a)gmail.com> wrote:
What it seems to me is that they are selling binaries, not support. They could be selling licenses (for Crossover, mp3 etc), but that's not a matter for us to resolve. If it is determined that what they are selling is binaries, then I'm almost certain that is a violation of GPL.
From memory, GPL allows you to charge for the cost of delivering the software (e.g. CD media, postage), but not the binaries themselves.
GPL allows you to skin a buyer for any amount you like. As long as you tell them where the source code is. They also do not need to give you the source. Only the buyers of the product. -- Peter Bortas
--- On Sat, 7/2/09, Peter Bortas <bortas(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 4:57 PM, Ben Klein <shacklein(a)gmail.com> wrote:
What it seems to me is that they are selling binaries, not support. They could be selling licenses (for Crossover, mp3 etc), but that's not a matter for us to resolve. If it is determined that what they are selling is binaries, then I'm almost certain that is a violation of GPL.
From memory, GPL allows you to charge for the cost of delivering the software (e.g. CD media, postage), but not the binaries themselves.
GPL allows you to skin a buyer for any amount you like. As long as you tell them where the source code is. They also do not need to give you the source. Only the buyers of the product.
That's right - GPL allows you to charge for binaries, and any amount for that matter. GPL just means who ever received the binaries are also entitled to the source code, and *also* the right to sell both onward - and possibly as a competitor to you - so you cannot charge 'unreasonable' amounts.
On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 11:12 PM, Hin-Tak Leung <hintak_leung(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
That's right - GPL allows you to charge for binaries, and any amount for that matter. GPL just means who ever received the binaries are also entitled to the source code, and *also* the right to sell both onward - and possibly as a competitor to you - so you cannot charge 'unreasonable' amounts.
Exactly. I find this whole thread a bit weird. Isn't it great that (commercial) Linux distributions are shipping Wine? Those exaggerated claims of compatibility are just marketing talk. I've seen worse. Remco
2009/2/9 Remco <remco47(a)gmail.com>:
On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 11:12 PM, Hin-Tak Leung <hintak_leung(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
That's right - GPL allows you to charge for binaries, and any amount for that matter. GPL just means who ever received the binaries are also entitled to the source code, and *also* the right to sell both onward - and possibly as a competitor to you - so you cannot charge 'unreasonable' amounts.
A few people have cleared this up. A misunderstanding of the terms on my part.
Exactly. I find this whole thread a bit weird. Isn't it great that (commercial) Linux distributions are shipping Wine? Those exaggerated claims of compatibility are just marketing talk. I've seen worse.
Marketing? More like outright lies. If only they were based in Australia, where I know for a fact we have truth in advertising laws. I have no idea about other countries :)
Remco
On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 7:16 PM, Ben Klein <shacklein(a)gmail.com> wrote:
2009/2/7 EA Durbin <ead1234(a)hotmail.com>:
I just saw this linux distribution on distrowatch. They claim to be able to run all microsoft products. Interesting. http://www.imagicos.com/ http://www.imagicos.com/microsoft.html
No they don't. It says "almost every" on the home page and "most" on the "Microsoft" page.
Assuming they're talking about Wine, someone should tell them that they're wrong anyway. "quite a lot of entirely win32 applications", maybe. Almost certainly not "most".
Ooh, just spotted some interesting items on their "tested applications" list. - DirectX - DirectX 6 - DirectX 7 - DirectX 8 - DirectX 9
How about we just completely ignore these idiots?
Also: # Internet Explorer 5.0 and 5.5 # Internet Explorer 6.0 ... # iPod Support in iTunes 4.0 ... # Mac OS X # Mac OS X Audio Input Support -- -Austin
2009/2/7 Austin English <austinenglish(a)gmail.com>:
On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 7:16 PM, Ben Klein <shacklein(a)gmail.com> wrote:
2009/2/7 EA Durbin <ead1234(a)hotmail.com>:
I just saw this linux distribution on distrowatch. They claim to be able to run all microsoft products. Interesting. http://www.imagicos.com/ http://www.imagicos.com/microsoft.html
No they don't. It says "almost every" on the home page and "most" on the "Microsoft" page.
Assuming they're talking about Wine, someone should tell them that they're wrong anyway. "quite a lot of entirely win32 applications", maybe. Almost certainly not "most".
Ooh, just spotted some interesting items on their "tested applications" list. - DirectX - DirectX 6 - DirectX 7 - DirectX 8 - DirectX 9
How about we just completely ignore these idiots?
Also: # Internet Explorer 5.0 and 5.5 # Internet Explorer 6.0
I've heard of some success with 6.0 (without crappy winedoors/ies4linux stuff), so I didn't comment.
# iPod Support in iTunes 4.0
Hmm, that seems unlikely
# Mac OS X # Mac OS X Audio Input Support
Well spotted, Austin! Maybe they're talking about a VM, not Wine ... in which case, you'd have to get a copy of Windows, which defeats the purpose of being proud about their Windows app support.
On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 7:30 PM, Ben Klein <shacklein(a)gmail.com> wrote:
2009/2/7 Austin English <austinenglish(a)gmail.com>:
On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 7:16 PM, Ben Klein <shacklein(a)gmail.com> wrote:
2009/2/7 EA Durbin <ead1234(a)hotmail.com>:
I just saw this linux distribution on distrowatch. They claim to be able to run all microsoft products. Interesting. http://www.imagicos.com/ http://www.imagicos.com/microsoft.html
No they don't. It says "almost every" on the home page and "most" on the "Microsoft" page.
Assuming they're talking about Wine, someone should tell them that they're wrong anyway. "quite a lot of entirely win32 applications", maybe. Almost certainly not "most".
Ooh, just spotted some interesting items on their "tested applications" list. - DirectX - DirectX 6 - DirectX 7 - DirectX 8 - DirectX 9
How about we just completely ignore these idiots?
Also: # Internet Explorer 5.0 and 5.5 # Internet Explorer 6.0
I've heard of some success with 6.0 (without crappy winedoors/ies4linux stuff), so I didn't comment.
# iPod Support in iTunes 4.0
Hmm, that seems unlikely
# Mac OS X # Mac OS X Audio Input Support
Well spotted, Austin!
Maybe they're talking about a VM, not Wine ... in which case, you'd have to get a copy of Windows, which defeats the purpose of being proud about their Windows app support.
From http://www.imagicos.com/why.html : "Compatibility iMagic OS can run many Microsoft Windows applications along with Linux applications, with help from the built in Crossover software."
Either they've got a deal with Crossover, or bundled it somehow? I sent them an e-mail asking for the source, we'll see how that goes. -- -Austin
On Feb 6, 2009 at 7:33 PM, Austin English <austinenglish(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 7:30 PM, Ben Klein <shacklein(a)gmail.com> wrote:
2009/2/7 Austin English <austinenglish(a)gmail.com>:
On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 7:16 PM, Ben Klein <shacklein(a)gmail.com> wrote:
2009/2/7 EA Durbin <ead1234(a)hotmail.com>:
I just saw this linux distribution on distrowatch. They claim to be able to run all microsoft products. Interesting. http://www.imagicos.com/ http://www.imagicos.com/microsoft.html
No they don't. It says "almost every" on the home page and "most" on the "Microsoft" page.
Assuming they're talking about Wine, someone should tell them that they're wrong anyway. "quite a lot of entirely win32 applications", maybe. Almost certainly not "most".
Ooh, just spotted some interesting items on their "tested applications" list. - DirectX - DirectX 6 - DirectX 7 - DirectX 8 - DirectX 9
How about we just completely ignore these idiots?
Also: # Internet Explorer 5.0 and 5.5 # Internet Explorer 6.0
I've heard of some success with 6.0 (without crappy winedoors/ies4linux stuff), so I didn't comment.
# iPod Support in iTunes 4.0
Hmm, that seems unlikely
# Mac OS X # Mac OS X Audio Input Support
Well spotted, Austin!
Maybe they're talking about a VM, not Wine ... in which case, you'd have to get a copy of Windows, which defeats the purpose of being proud about their Windows app support.
From http://www.imagicos.com/why.html : "Compatibility iMagic OS can run many Microsoft Windows applications along with Linux applications, with help from the built in Crossover software."
Either they've got a deal with Crossover, or bundled it somehow?
I sent them an e-mail asking for the source, we'll see how that goes.
-- -Austin
Got a reply (pretty quick, must say): contact(a)imagicos.com to me 7:02 AM (6 hours ago) Glad to help. We recognize that people have put a lot of work into GNU software, and we honor that with GPL by having the Debian Binary Packages freely available for ease of installation. Attached to this email is a text file that details out this process. We cannot give out all source code, because iMagic OS includes proprietary software such as Crossover Pro & Games, Picasa, Skype, and others, as well as our own applications, including magicOnline and magicOffice, enhancements, configurations, and other desktop features. But we honor anything GNU, so feel free to download the DEBs from Ubuntu repos as we did per instructions in the attached text file. Best Wishes! Your Friends at iMagic OS On Fri, 6 Feb 2009 19:28:34 -0600, Austin English <austinenglish(a)gmail.com> wrote: - Hide quoted text -
I don't see anywhere where I can download the source to GPL/GPL'ed/BSD/etc. code used in your operating system. Can you send me the link please.
Thanks! -- -Austin
Along with the attached text file...apparently they think pointing users to binary packages is enough to satisfy the GPL o.0. -- -Austin
EA Durbin wrote:
I just saw this linux distribution on distrowatch. They claim to be able to run all microsoft products. Interesting. http://www.imagicos.com/ http://www.imagicos.com/microsoft.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------ Windows Live™: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. Check it out. <http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_explore_022009>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Especially this http://imagicos.net/private_packages/depend.html BTW. CrossOver and Mac OS X are listed too. As Win Apps...
EA Durbin wrote:
I just saw this linux distribution on distrowatch. They claim to be able to run all microsoft products. Interesting.
Just for the record, these folks are customers of ours. It is my belief that their distribution of CrossOver complies with all of the terms of the LGPL; we try to make sure of that for our customers. I even believe that money they make as a result of their windows compatibility will, albeit fairly indirectly, support Wine development. Obviously, I like it when folks can celebrate the contributions of everyone to Wine, and to all the FOSS products that go into something like a Linux distribution. But Free Software means that folks are also free to market as they see fit :-/. Cheers, Jeremy
participants (13)
-
Austin English -
Ben Klein -
David Gerard -
EA Durbin -
Hin-Tak Leung -
IneedAname -
Jeremy White -
Michael Karcher -
Nikolay Sivov -
nn -
Peter Bortas -
Remco -
Tom Wickline