[RFC] Use ICU in wine ?
Right now, wine claims to use DUCET data for lingustic sorting, but by section 1.9.2 of that document (as of version 6.0.0), uses it in a wrong way. The result of it are bugs such as #10767 and #9583. A possible way around it would beby using ICU to get language specific tailoring and applying some of wine-specific for the parts addressed by #10767. In a way, wine already *indirectly* depends on icu on many distros (a potential libxml2 dep) - they were quite a few patches already addressing build failures caused by this in recent past. I've cooked up a patch, that's unfortunately isn't working properly yet, it's more of a draft on where to go, if such road were to be taken. Main issue with this patch ain't it's not ignoring the proper list of symbols, as this would be easy to fix, if not for one problem: the part that I put inside 'if (0)' block. For some reason (threading, perhaps ?), if I pass a non-zero lenght string to ucol_openRules, wineboot hangs. Oddly, if the string lenght is 0, the hang doesn't happen. I can't really tell, what going wrong, as the almost same code works in native linux testcase. Also, while in this patch UCOL_ALTERNATE_HANDLING would have been used for NORM_IGNORESYMBOLS, it would be much better to manipulate some of the settings by a custom rule and VariableTop value, but to do that, first such rule would have to be passed and that odd hang prevents it at the moment. It would also be nice, if it was possible to initialize the collator only once for an app instance - after all, in Windows locale change requires a reboot, so while (AFAIK) one wineserver instance can have apps in different locales running, locale can't change for an already running app. So if you have any idea of why exactly the hang happens and how to get around it or know any *technical* reasons of why ICU couldn't be used in wine, CC me with comments.
Rafał Mużyło <galtgendo(a)o2.pl> wrote:
Right now, wine claims to use DUCET data for lingustic sorting,
What's DUCET and where do you see Wine does claim to use it?
but by section 1.9.2 of that document (as of version 6.0.0), uses it in a wrong way.
Could you please be slightly more specific?
The result of it are bugs such as #10767 and #9583.
Looks like that you don't understand what those bugs are about.
A possible way around it would beby using ICU to get language specific tailoring and applying some of wine-specific for the parts addressed by #10767.
Once you uderstand the problems you may see that adding ICU to Wine depencies will create much more problems than it's supposedly will solve. -- Dmitry.
On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 04:16:26PM +0900, Dmitry Timoshkov wrote (and contradicted himself):
What's DUCET and where do you see Wine does claim to use it?
DUCET: Default Unicode Collation Element Table http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10767#c1
but by section 1.9.2 of that document (as of version 6.0.0), uses it in a wrong way.
http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr10/#Non-Goals, point 6 "...DUCET does not and cannot actually provide linguistically correct sorting for every language without further tailoring...."
Could you please be slightly more specific?
Looks like that you don't understand what those bugs are about.
Is the above link specific enough ?
On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 04:16:26PM +0900, Dmitry Timoshkov wrote (and contradicted himself):
What's DUCET and where do you see Wine does claim to use it?
DUCET: Default Unicode Collation Element Table http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10767#c1
but by section 1.9.2 of that document (as of version 6.0.0), uses it in a wrong way.
http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr10/#Non-Goals, point 6 "...DUCET does not and cannot actually provide linguistically correct sorting for every language without further tailoring...."
Could you please be slightly more specific?
Looks like that you don't understand what those bugs are about.
Is the above link specific enough ? Anyway, if DUCET and Windows default differ is dumping that default even allowed ? Besides, the only proper way to fix bug #9583 is to implement some kind of language tailoring.
Am 10.10.2011 17:33, schrieb Rafał Mużyło:
Anyway, if DUCET and Windows default differ is dumping that default even allowed ?
I don't think so... I once was hacking on our collation stuff too to fix http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5163 but i guess dumping the windows stuff wouldn't even have helped me. -- Best Regards, André Hentschel
On 10/10/2011 02:48 AM, Rafał Mużyło wrote:
Right now, wine claims to use DUCET data for lingustic sorting, but by section 1.9.2 of that document (as of version 6.0.0), uses it in a wrong way. The result of it are bugs such as #10767 and #9583.
A possible way around it would beby using ICU to get language specific tailoring and applying some of wine-specific for the parts addressed by #10767. I will not go into the part of the discussion that has to do with whether ICU will or will not resolve the issues. I will point out that Wine used to have a soft dependency on ICU (introduced, for my sins, by me) for the sake of BiDi processing. Everyone involved, myself included, were all too happy to see it go. ICU is impossible to dynamically link with, and it's size is quite huge if statically linked.
The good news is that ICU's license seems to be compatible with Wine's LGPL, so if needed, the relevant part can be copied into Wine. Shachar -- Shachar Shemesh Lingnu Open Source Consulting Ltd. http://www.lingnu.com
On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 07:47:32PM +0200, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
ICU is impossible to dynamically link with, and it's size is quite huge if statically linked.
Huh ? /usr/lib/libicudata.so.48 /usr/lib/libiculx.so.48 /usr/lib/libicutest.so.48 /usr/lib/libicui18n.so.48 /usr/lib/libicutu.so.48 /usr/lib/libicuio.so.48 /usr/lib/libicuuc.so.48 /usr/lib/libicule.so.48 Care to elaborate ? Yes, it has an annoying habit of ABI breaks, but so does i.e. poppler.
On Mon Oct 10 12:48:27 CDT 2011, André Hentschel wrote a few things: Well, in the bug you've mentioned (#5163) there was a link to that file in mono, but while it seems nice, just looking at mono code makes my eyes bleed and the perspective of rewriting it in perl would fill me with terror. There's also the question of how close did mono get to Windows in this case. Still, that would at most fixed the default table, the tailoring needs to be implemented anyway.
participants (5)
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André Hentschel -
Dmitry Timoshkov -
Rafał Mużyło -
Rafał Mużyło -
Shachar Shemesh