Fwd: Should we expect Liberation fonts to be installed?
Sorry, I failed at Gmail again. >_< ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Paul "TBBle" Hampson <Paul.Hampson(a)pobox.com> Date: 12 August 2010 13:52 Subject: Re: Should we expect Liberation fonts to be installed? To: Scott Ritchie <scott(a)open-vote.org> On 8 August 2010 13:02, Scott Ritchie <scott(a)open-vote.org> wrote:
On 08/03/2010 01:57 PM, Scott Ritchie wrote:
I was looking through our fairly large collection of open font bugs and realized that things might be a lot simpler if we took some opinionated positions and just declared certain fonts to be dependencies and expected all packagers to provide them.
This is similar to bundling our own Tahoma, except much less work.
This bug, for instance, prevents Photoshop from working unless there is an Arial font installed: http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9623
Wine doesn't seem to respect system-level fontconfig aliases, so even though Liberation Sans is installed on the system Photoshop won't try to use it in place of Arial.
But if however we assumed that Liberation Sans was installed, we could make things much better: a link/substitution for Arial->Liberation Sans could be provided in our own registry (and similarly for Times New Roman and Courier). An alternative is to simply symlink to the Liberation Fonts in /usr/share/wine/fonts as though they were our own shipped fonts (like Tahoma).
This would make Photoshop think Arial was present and keep it functional. Ideally the real Arial would be displayed if it was installed (eg through winetricks corefonts or by installing the distro-provided corefonts package).
A related question is whether to show "Arial" in the list of fonts (eg notepad) when we're actually just providing a substituted Arial. My inclination says no, however I'm not sure how it works internally and what an application would expect.
Assuming for a moment this is a good idea, what's the best implementation? My inclination is to say some registry font links, but I'm not completely familiar with how that works.
Will font links in the registry be ignored when the real font is present?
(Wine-specific) Font Replacements will be ignored when the real font is present. Those're the ones in HKCU\Software\Wine\Fonts\Replacements and probably the ones you want to use. (Which could be supplanted or supplemented by working FontConfig alias support...) (GDI) Font Links (ie. the same registry entries Windows uses) are fallbacks for missing glyphs. Those're the ones in HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\FontLink\SystemLink Font Substitutes _probably_ don't get ignored if a real font with that name exists. Those're the ones in HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\FontSubstitutes and they're pretty purpose-specific. The only entries we want for them in Wine are the ones described at http://blogs.msdn.com/b/michkap/archive/2005/03/20/399322.aspx (which should probably be the default in Wine anyway, at least the Tahoma entry.) (Which by-the-by highlights a mistake in my previous suggestion towards bug 13829) -- Paul "TBBle" Hampson, Paul.Hampson(a)Pobox.com On 12 August 2010 13:52, Paul "TBBle" Hampson <Paul.Hampson(a)pobox.com> wrote:
(Wine-specific) Font Replacements will be ignored when the real font is present. Those're the ones in HKCU\Software\Wine\Fonts\Replacements and probably the ones you want to use. (Which could be supplanted or supplemented by working FontConfig alias support...)
To be clear, I think the best first-step solution for this bug is for Wine's Font Replacements code to read the aliases from FontConfig as well as its own registry keys when building its list. (The latter being taken over the former) That would make the problem magically go away on systems that do include appropriately-substitutable fonts. -- Paul "TBBle" Hampson, Paul.Hampson(a)Pobox.com
Am 12.08.2010 06:11, schrieb Paul "TBBle" Hampson:
Sorry, I failed at Gmail again. >_<
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Paul "TBBle" Hampson <Paul.Hampson(a)pobox.com> Date: 12 August 2010 13:52 Subject: Re: Should we expect Liberation fonts to be installed? To: Scott Ritchie <scott(a)open-vote.org>
On 8 August 2010 13:02, Scott Ritchie <scott(a)open-vote.org> wrote:
On 08/03/2010 01:57 PM, Scott Ritchie wrote:
I was looking through our fairly large collection of open font bugs and realized that things might be a lot simpler if we took some opinionated positions and just declared certain fonts to be dependencies and expected all packagers to provide them.
This is similar to bundling our own Tahoma, except much less work.
This bug, for instance, prevents Photoshop from working unless there is an Arial font installed: http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9623
Wine doesn't seem to respect system-level fontconfig aliases, so even though Liberation Sans is installed on the system Photoshop won't try to use it in place of Arial.
But if however we assumed that Liberation Sans was installed, we could make things much better: a link/substitution for Arial->Liberation Sans could be provided in our own registry (and similarly for Times New Roman and Courier). An alternative is to simply symlink to the Liberation Fonts in /usr/share/wine/fonts as though they were our own shipped fonts (like Tahoma).
This would make Photoshop think Arial was present and keep it functional. Ideally the real Arial would be displayed if it was installed (eg through winetricks corefonts or by installing the distro-provided corefonts package).
A related question is whether to show "Arial" in the list of fonts (eg notepad) when we're actually just providing a substituted Arial. My inclination says no, however I'm not sure how it works internally and what an application would expect.
Assuming for a moment this is a good idea, what's the best implementation? My inclination is to say some registry font links, but I'm not completely familiar with how that works.
Will font links in the registry be ignored when the real font is present?
(Wine-specific) Font Replacements will be ignored when the real font is present. Those're the ones in HKCU\Software\Wine\Fonts\Replacements and probably the ones you want to use. (Which could be supplanted or supplemented by working FontConfig alias support...)
(GDI) Font Links (ie. the same registry entries Windows uses) are fallbacks for missing glyphs. Those're the ones in HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\FontLink\SystemLink
Font Substitutes _probably_ don't get ignored if a real font with that name exists. Those're the ones in HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\FontSubstitutes and they're pretty purpose-specific. The only entries we want for them in Wine are the ones described at http://blogs.msdn.com/b/michkap/archive/2005/03/20/399322.aspx (which should probably be the default in Wine anyway, at least the Tahoma entry.)
Wow, can you please update http://wiki.winehq.org/FontLoadOrder with these great informations? -- Best Regards, André Hentschel
2010/8/12 André Hentschel <nerv(a)dawncrow.de>:
Wow, can you please update http://wiki.winehq.org/FontLoadOrder with these great informations?
I'm not sure that's the _best_ page for it (this isn't about font loading, but font substitution) but I'll see about writing it all up properly this weekend. (And if I'm feeling enthused, see if I can make fontconfig aliases work, although a brief glace at the API suggests there's nothing specifically for fetching the alias list) -- Paul "TBBle" Hampson, Paul.Hampson(a)Pobox.com
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Paul "TBBle" Hampson