Alarming number of users getting hardlocks with Wine

[Scott Ritchie]

Reading the Ubuntu forums, I've noticed quite a few reports from users
complaining about Wine deadlocking their system - keyboard unresponsive,
with no solution but to restart the entire computer.

Sometimes users report this problem after running ANY Wine process -
even winecfg.

I'm not sure what's causing the issue.  At first I thought it was a
hardware thing (perhaps ATI's infamously terribly drivers), but would
that still prevent winecfg from working?  Wine is a user-level process,
it shouldn't be able to cause a hardlock under any circumstances, right?

Anyone else seen these kinds of reports?

Thanks,
Scott Ritchie

[Rick Romero]

On Thu, 2007-05-24 at 11:19 -0700, Scott Ritchie wrote:
> Reading the Ubuntu forums, I've noticed quite a few reports from users
> complaining about Wine deadlocking their system - keyboard unresponsive,
> with no solution but to restart the entire computer.
>
> Sometimes users report this problem after running ANY Wine process -
> even winecfg.
>
> I'm not sure what's causing the issue.  At first I thought it was a
> hardware thing (perhaps ATI's infamously terribly drivers), but would
> that still prevent winecfg from working?  Wine is a user-level process,
> it shouldn't be able to cause a hardlock under any circumstances, right?
>
> Anyone else seen these kinds of reports?

Hi Scott - Not Wine related, but on Debian Sid OpenOffice 2.1/2.2, if I
click a menu item it will randomly 'deadlock'.   The system isn't really
locked up though, if I ssh in from another machine I can see my X server
is pegged at 100%.   Killing X, of course restarts everything under it,
but the machine is still technically 'responsive'.

So... Ubuntu is a form of Debian...  X locks up..  I figured it was just
my Xserver, as I use an old Matrox 400 Dual Head....

Maybe it's just a coincidence..

Rick
> Thanks,
> Scott Ritchie

-- 
--
Rick Romero
IT Manager      
Valeo, Inc.     ph: 262.695.4841
Sussex, WI.     fax: [phone]
Rick(a)valeoinc.com

[L. Rahyen]

On Thursday May 24 2007 18:35, Rick Romero wrote:
> On Thu, 2007-05-24 at 11:19 -0700, Scott Ritchie wrote:
> > Reading the Ubuntu forums, I've noticed quite a few reports from users
> > complaining about Wine deadlocking their system - keyboard unresponsive,
> > with no solution but to restart the entire computer.
> >
> > Sometimes users report this problem after running ANY Wine process -
> > even winecfg.
> >
> > I'm not sure what's causing the issue.  At first I thought it was a
> > hardware thing (perhaps ATI's infamously terribly drivers), but would
> > that still prevent winecfg from working?  Wine is a user-level process,
> > it shouldn't be able to cause a hardlock under any circumstances, right?
> >
> > Anyone else seen these kinds of reports?
>
> Hi Scott - Not Wine related, but on Debian Sid OpenOffice 2.1/2.2, if I
> click a menu item it will randomly 'deadlock'.

Execute this command:

apt-get remove openoffice.org-kde

	After that your OpenOffice shouldn't "deadlock" anymore. This is probably a bug and I don't know if it is already reported or not.

	What about "deadlocking" in general I have no such problem at all. My desktop PC works for me for months 24 hours per day without any problem. It should be noted that my use of it is very intensive, I have a lot of Windows big applications that I run everyday, games, virtual machines with regular heavy load, 3D-rendering of complex scenes, etc.
	I have GeForce7 and old PCI TNT card for second display. First one uses NVIDIA driver and other one free nv driver. My motherboard is made by Epox.
	So these "deadlock issues" are definitely hardware or maybe but less likely driver problems (software ones are unrelated and you always can press Alt+SysRq+K to restart X in such extremely rare case - for me at least it has happened only with OpenOffice and workaround above solve this problem). Makesure you have at least memory from good brand like Kingston (and not from Samsung or other "secondary" brand or "no-name"), that your videocard and motherboard is from good brand too, etc. and everything will work for you without deadlocks for months without any need of resets (of course resets will "happen" if you need to upgrade you PC or kernel).

[Marcus Meissner]

On Thu, May 24, 2007 at 11:19:23AM -0700, Scott Ritchie wrote:
> Reading the Ubuntu forums, I've noticed quite a few reports from users
> complaining about Wine deadlocking their system - keyboard unresponsive,
> with no solution but to restart the entire computer.
>
> Sometimes users report this problem after running ANY Wine process -
> even winecfg.
>
> I'm not sure what's causing the issue.  At first I thought it was a
> hardware thing (perhaps ATI's infamously terribly drivers), but would
> that still prevent winecfg from working?  Wine is a user-level process,
> it shouldn't be able to cause a hardlock under any circumstances, right?
>
> Anyone else seen these kinds of reports?

It is likely ATI or NVIDIA.

But yes, a broken graphics driver can cause user apps to deadlock the
machine.

Ciao, Marcus

[Maarten Lankhorst]

Marcus Meissner schreef:
> It is likely ATI or NVIDIA.
> But yes, a broken graphics driver can cause user apps to deadlock the
> machine.
>
> Ciao, Marcus

Most likely, I get hard locks too when closing a d3d app by using
control c, and my system hangs if I kill a wine process with xkill, both
thanks to fglrx...

Maarten

[Stefan Dösinger]

Hi
> Wine is a user-level process,
> it shouldn't be able to cause a hardlock under any circumstances, right?
> Correct.

The operating system must prevent user level apps from locking the system. So 
hard crashes are by definition NOT wine's bug.

I think its not the kernel that crashes, rather the X server that fails to 
process new input. Often sshing in works, then you can kill the Wine process 
keeping the X server hostage or the X server itself and your system works 
again. That doesn't help the average user of course.

[eAi]

I've had deadlocks every time I've tried to play Half-Life (1) on the 
current Ubuntu and current WINE. Had to restart the computer each time.

Other programs seemed to be fine, but I imagine Half-Life is much more 
"intensive" than mIRC (for example).

Ed

Stefan Dösinger wrote:
> Hi
> > Wine is a user-level process,
> > it shouldn't be able to cause a hardlock under any circumstances, right?
> > Correct.
>
> The operating system must prevent user level apps from locking the system. So 
> hard crashes are by definition NOT wine's bug.
>
> I think its not the kernel that crashes, rather the X server that fails to 
> process new input. Often sshing in works, then you can kill the Wine process 
> keeping the X server hostage or the X server itself and your system works 
> again. That doesn't help the average user of course.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 5/24/07, Scott Ritchie <scott(a)open-vote.org> wrote:
> Reading the Ubuntu forums, I've noticed quite a few reports from users
> complaining about Wine deadlocking their system - keyboard unresponsive,
> with no solution but to restart the entire computer.

I've had the keyboard stop responding... often... with a particular
game.  I have to go find the link to it.
> Sometimes users report this problem after running ANY Wine process -
> even winecfg.
>
> I'm not sure what's causing the issue.  At first I thought it was a
> hardware thing (perhaps ATI's infamously terribly drivers), but would

But I have a PCI Geforce 6200.
> that still prevent winecfg from working?  Wine is a user-level process,
> it shouldn't be able to cause a hardlock under any circumstances, right?

Definitely agreeing with that.  Trying to convince my management that
the blue screen of death triggered by my Windows program is also not
my bug for the same reason.
> Anyone else seen these kinds of reports?
>
> Thanks,
> Scott Ritchie

[James Liggett]

On Fri, 2007-05-25 at 15:11 -0500, richardvoigt(a)gmail.com wrote:
> > Anyone else seen these kinds of reports?
> > I have issues similar to Richard's with Counter-Strike: Source when I
> > play in 800x600 mode. The game plays fine, but it hangs my box when I
> > try to exit and wine tries to bring my desktop back to my usual
> > resolution, 1024x768. I can move the mouse cursor, but keyboard input is
> > dead, and the computer is just unresponsive. This is on a GeForce
> > 6800GT, AGP bus, with drivers 1.0-9755, on Ubuntu Feisty.

James Liggett

On 5/25/07, richardvoigt(a)gmail.com <richardvoigt(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On 5/24/07, Scott Ritchie <scott(a)open-vote.org> wrote:
> > Reading the Ubuntu forums, I've noticed quite a few reports from users
> > complaining about Wine deadlocking their system - keyboard unresponsive,
> > with no solution but to restart the entire computer.
>
> I've had the keyboard stop responding... often... with a particular
> game.  I have to go find the link to it.

It's "Galactic Dream: Rage of War" demo/preview.  Free download, make
it easy(-ier) to reproduce.

http://www.rageofwar.net/
> > Sometimes users report this problem after running ANY Wine process -
> > even winecfg.
> >
> > I'm not sure what's causing the issue.  At first I thought it was a
> > hardware thing (perhaps ATI's infamously terribly drivers), but would
>
> But I have a PCI Geforce 6200.
> > that still prevent winecfg from working?  Wine is a user-level process,
> > it shouldn't be able to cause a hardlock under any circumstances, right?
>
> Definitely agreeing with that.  Trying to convince my management that
> the blue screen of death triggered by my Windows program is also not
> my bug for the same reason.
> > Anyone else seen these kinds of reports?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Scott Ritchie