Running services in WINE?

[Christopher]

I've been trying to get MozyHome working on WINE, and have made a little 
progress. However, it seems that the service which Mozy uses won't 
start. Searching a bit I found a thread from a year ago stating that 
services don't work in WINE, but that it was being worked on. Are 
services implemented in WINE now, or if they're not is someone working 
on it who I could help out?

Christopher Berner

[Maarten Lankhorst]

Hi Christopher,

2008/3/12, Christopher <raccoonone(a)procyongames.com>:
> I've been trying to get MozyHome working on WINE, and have made a little
>  progress. However, it seems that the service which Mozy uses won't
>  start. Searching a bit I found a thread from a year ago stating that
>  services don't work in WINE, but that it was being worked on. Are
>  services implemented in WINE now, or if they're not is someone working
>  on it who I could help out?
> Services most definitely work now. Some of them you can start manually
> with "wine net start 'servicename'", however this shouldn't be needed.

Cheers,
Maarten.

[Christopher]

Maarten Lankhorst wrote:
> Hi Christopher,
>
> 2008/3/12, Christopher <raccoonone(a)procyongames.com>:
> > I've been trying to get MozyHome working on WINE, and have made a little
> >  progress. However, it seems that the service which Mozy uses won't
> >  start. Searching a bit I found a thread from a year ago stating that
> >  services don't work in WINE, but that it was being worked on. Are
> >  services implemented in WINE now, or if they're not is someone working
> >  on it who I could help out?
>
> Services most definitely work now. Some of them you can start manually
> with "wine net start 'servicename'", however this shouldn't be needed.
>
> Cheers,
> Maarten.

Thanks Maarten!
I tried that, but didn't have anymore luck. The service exits almost 
immediately, after giving a few fixme messages. Time to do some 
debugging I guess :)

Christopher

[Paul Vriens]

Christopher wrote:
> Maarten Lankhorst wrote:
> > Hi Christopher,
> >
> > 2008/3/12, Christopher <raccoonone(a)procyongames.com>:
> > > I've been trying to get MozyHome working on WINE, and have made a little
> > >  progress. However, it seems that the service which Mozy uses won't
> > >  start. Searching a bit I found a thread from a year ago stating that
> > >  services don't work in WINE, but that it was being worked on. Are
> > >  services implemented in WINE now, or if they're not is someone working
> > >  on it who I could help out?
> >
> > Services most definitely work now. Some of them you can start manually
> > with "wine net start 'servicename'", however this shouldn't be needed.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Maarten.
>
> Thanks Maarten!
> I tried that, but didn't have anymore luck. The service exits almost 
> immediately, after giving a few fixme messages. Time to do some 
> debugging I guess :)
>
> Christopher

I've been looking into this and found an issue in Wine that I'm not sure who to 
test or solve yet.

MozyHome creates a key in the Services branch:

System\\CurrentControlSet\\Services\\mozybackup

It than adds a 'Description' value to this key.

A bit later it checks for the service by doing an OpenService. This succeeds on 
Wine but shouldn't.

I've created a simple test that creates the key and some value in it. Doing an 
OpenService fails every time on Windows.

I took another approach whereby I created a proper service (CreateService) and 
checked whether I could do an OpenService. This succeeded every time even after 
deleting the whole key.

What it boils down to is that the service control manager keeps track of the 
services. Only proper service calls can influence the service control manager 
(or a reboot).

So as long as we don't implement some service control manager functionality 
(services.exe?) we could have some issues as with MozyHome.

One approach we could take while we don't have the full functionality is to 
check for the minimal required parameters (value) we need for a service. Would 
that be acceptable?

I think Maarten's patch for CreateService was along those same lines 
(http://source.winehq.org/git/wine.git/?a=commit;h=284f86183cce638ff8fce4023c...). 
We need to find a better way of checking whether a service is truly installed. 
(and not just some registry keys).

-- 
Cheers,

Paul.

[James Hawkins]

On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 8:03 AM, Paul Vriens <paul.vriens.wine(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> Christopher wrote:
> > Maarten Lankhorst wrote:
> > > Hi Christopher,
> > >
> > > 2008/3/12, Christopher <raccoonone(a)procyongames.com>:
> > > > I've been trying to get MozyHome working on WINE, and have made a little
> > > >  progress. However, it seems that the service which Mozy uses won't
> > > >  start. Searching a bit I found a thread from a year ago stating that
> > > >  services don't work in WINE, but that it was being worked on. Are
> > > >  services implemented in WINE now, or if they're not is someone working
> > > >  on it who I could help out?
> > >
> > > Services most definitely work now. Some of them you can start manually
> > > with "wine net start 'servicename'", however this shouldn't be needed.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Maarten.
> >
> > Thanks Maarten!
> > I tried that, but didn't have anymore luck. The service exits almost
> > immediately, after giving a few fixme messages. Time to do some
> > debugging I guess :)
> >
> > Christopher
>
> I've been looking into this and found an issue in Wine that I'm not sure who to
>  test or solve yet.
>
> MozyHome creates a key in the Services branch:
>
> System\\CurrentControlSet\\Services\\mozybackup
>
> It than adds a 'Description' value to this key.
>
> A bit later it checks for the service by doing an OpenService. This succeeds on
>  Wine but shouldn't.
>
> I've created a simple test that creates the key and some value in it. Doing an
>  OpenService fails every time on Windows.
>
> I took another approach whereby I created a proper service (CreateService) and
>  checked whether I could do an OpenService. This succeeded every time even after
>  deleting the whole key.
>
> What it boils down to is that the service control manager keeps track of the
>  services. Only proper service calls can influence the service control manager
>  (or a reboot).
>
> So as long as we don't implement some service control manager functionality
>  (services.exe?) we could have some issues as with MozyHome.
>
> One approach we could take while we don't have the full functionality is to
>  check for the minimal required parameters (value) we need for a service. Would
>  that be acceptable?
>
> I think Maarten's patch for CreateService was along those same lines
>  (http://source.winehq.org/git/wine.git/?a=commit;h=284f86183cce638ff8fce4023c...).
>  We need to find a better way of checking whether a service is truly installed.
>  (and not just some registry keys).

http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11651#c3

but generally comments 2-4.

-- 
James Hawkins

[Paul Vriens]

James Hawkins wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 8:03 AM, Paul Vriens <paul.vriens.wine(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > Christopher wrote:
> > > Maarten Lankhorst wrote:
> > > > Hi Christopher,
> > > >
> > > > 2008/3/12, Christopher <raccoonone(a)procyongames.com>:
> > > > > I've been trying to get MozyHome working on WINE, and have made a little
> > > > >  progress. However, it seems that the service which Mozy uses won't
> > > > >  start. Searching a bit I found a thread from a year ago stating that
> > > > >  services don't work in WINE, but that it was being worked on. Are
> > > > >  services implemented in WINE now, or if they're not is someone working
> > > > >  on it who I could help out?
> > > >
> > > > Services most definitely work now. Some of them you can start manually
> > > > with "wine net start 'servicename'", however this shouldn't be needed.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > Maarten.
> > >
> > > Thanks Maarten!
> > > I tried that, but didn't have anymore luck. The service exits almost
> > > immediately, after giving a few fixme messages. Time to do some
> > > debugging I guess :)
> > >
> > > Christopher
> >
> > I've been looking into this and found an issue in Wine that I'm not sure who to
> >  test or solve yet.
> >
> > MozyHome creates a key in the Services branch:
> >
> > System\\CurrentControlSet\\Services\\mozybackup
> >
> > It than adds a 'Description' value to this key.
> >
> > A bit later it checks for the service by doing an OpenService. This succeeds on
> >  Wine but shouldn't.
> >
> > I've created a simple test that creates the key and some value in it. Doing an
> >  OpenService fails every time on Windows.
> >
> > I took another approach whereby I created a proper service (CreateService) and
> >  checked whether I could do an OpenService. This succeeded every time even after
> >  deleting the whole key.
> >
> > What it boils down to is that the service control manager keeps track of the
> >  services. Only proper service calls can influence the service control manager
> >  (or a reboot).
> >
> > So as long as we don't implement some service control manager functionality
> >  (services.exe?) we could have some issues as with MozyHome.
> >
> > One approach we could take while we don't have the full functionality is to
> >  check for the minimal required parameters (value) we need for a service. Would
> >  that be acceptable?
> >
> > I think Maarten's patch for CreateService was along those same lines
> >  (http://source.winehq.org/git/wine.git/?a=commit;h=284f86183cce638ff8fce4023c...).
> >  We need to find a better way of checking whether a service is truly installed.
> >  (and not just some registry keys).
>
> http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11651#c3
>
> but generally comments 2-4.

It's good we came to same conclusion.

If we wanted to implemented a SCM where would that reside? wineboot?

Cheers,

Paul.

[Christopher]

Paul Vriens wrote:
> James Hawkins wrote:
> > On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 8:03 AM, Paul Vriens 
> > <paul.vriens.wine(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Christopher wrote:
> > > > Maarten Lankhorst wrote:
> > > > > Hi Christopher,
> > > > >
> > > > > 2008/3/12, Christopher <raccoonone(a)procyongames.com>:
> > > > > > I've been trying to get MozyHome working on WINE, and have made 
> > > > > > a little
> > > > > >  progress. However, it seems that the service which Mozy uses 
> > > > > > won't
> > > > > >  start. Searching a bit I found a thread from a year ago 
> > > > > > stating that
> > > > > >  services don't work in WINE, but that it was being worked on. Are
> > > > > >  services implemented in WINE now, or if they're not is someone 
> > > > > > working
> > > > > >  on it who I could help out?
> > > > >
> > > > > Services most definitely work now. Some of them you can start 
> > > > > manually
> > > > > with "wine net start 'servicename'", however this shouldn't be 
> > > > > needed.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > Maarten.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks Maarten!
> > > > I tried that, but didn't have anymore luck. The service exits almost
> > > > immediately, after giving a few fixme messages. Time to do some
> > > > debugging I guess :)
> > > >
> > > > Christopher
> > >
> > > I've been looking into this and found an issue in Wine that I'm not 
> > > sure who to
> > >  test or solve yet.
> > >
> > > MozyHome creates a key in the Services branch:
> > >
> > > System\\CurrentControlSet\\Services\\mozybackup
> > >
> > > It than adds a 'Description' value to this key.
> > >
> > > A bit later it checks for the service by doing an OpenService. This 
> > > succeeds on
> > >  Wine but shouldn't.
> > >
> > > I've created a simple test that creates the key and some value in 
> > > it. Doing an
> > >  OpenService fails every time on Windows.
> > >
> > > I took another approach whereby I created a proper service 
> > > (CreateService) and
> > >  checked whether I could do an OpenService. This succeeded every 
> > > time even after
> > >  deleting the whole key.
> > >
> > > What it boils down to is that the service control manager keeps 
> > > track of the
> > >  services. Only proper service calls can influence the service 
> > > control manager
> > >  (or a reboot).
> > >
> > > So as long as we don't implement some service control manager 
> > > functionality
> > >  (services.exe?) we could have some issues as with MozyHome.
> > >
> > > One approach we could take while we don't have the full 
> > > functionality is to
> > >  check for the minimal required parameters (value) we need for a 
> > > service. Would
> > >  that be acceptable?
> > >
> > > I think Maarten's patch for CreateService was along those same lines
> > >  (http://source.winehq.org/git/wine.git/?a=commit;h=284f86183cce638ff8fce4023c...).
> > >
> > > We need to find a better way of checking whether a service is truly 
> > > installed.
> > >  (and not just some registry keys).
> >
> > http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11651#c3
> >
> > but generally comments 2-4.
>
> It's good we came to same conclusion.
>
> If we wanted to implemented a SCM where would that reside? wineboot?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Paul.

If one of you (or anyone else) works on implementing a SCM, I'd love to 
help. I don't think I could do it on my own, but I can certainly lend a 
hand if someone with more experience can tell me what needs to be done.

Christopher

[Robert Shearman]

Paul Vriens wrote:
> James Hawkins wrote:
> > On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 8:03 AM, Paul Vriens <paul.vriens.wine(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Christopher wrote:
> > > > Maarten Lankhorst wrote:
> > > > > Hi Christopher,
> > > > >
> > > > > 2008/3/12, Christopher <raccoonone(a)procyongames.com>:
> > > > > > I've been trying to get MozyHome working on WINE, and have made a little
> > > > > >  progress. However, it seems that the service which Mozy uses won't
> > > > > >  start. Searching a bit I found a thread from a year ago stating that
> > > > > >  services don't work in WINE, but that it was being worked on. Are
> > > > > >  services implemented in WINE now, or if they're not is someone working
> > > > > >  on it who I could help out?
> > > > >
> > > > > Services most definitely work now. Some of them you can start manually
> > > > > with "wine net start 'servicename'", however this shouldn't be needed.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > Maarten.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks Maarten!
> > > > I tried that, but didn't have anymore luck. The service exits almost
> > > > immediately, after giving a few fixme messages. Time to do some
> > > > debugging I guess :)
> > > >
> > > > Christopher
> > >
> > > I've been looking into this and found an issue in Wine that I'm not sure who to
> > >  test or solve yet.
> > >
> > > MozyHome creates a key in the Services branch:
> > >
> > > System\\CurrentControlSet\\Services\\mozybackup
> > >
> > > It than adds a 'Description' value to this key.
> > >
> > > A bit later it checks for the service by doing an OpenService. This succeeds on
> > >  Wine but shouldn't.
> > >
> > > I've created a simple test that creates the key and some value in it. Doing an
> > >  OpenService fails every time on Windows.
> > >
> > > I took another approach whereby I created a proper service (CreateService) and
> > >  checked whether I could do an OpenService. This succeeded every time even after
> > >  deleting the whole key.
> > >
> > > What it boils down to is that the service control manager keeps track of the
> > >  services. Only proper service calls can influence the service control manager
> > >  (or a reboot).
> > >
> > > So as long as we don't implement some service control manager functionality
> > >  (services.exe?) we could have some issues as with MozyHome.
> > >
> > > One approach we could take while we don't have the full functionality is to
> > >  check for the minimal required parameters (value) we need for a service. Would
> > >  that be acceptable?
> > >
> > > I think Maarten's patch for CreateService was along those same lines
> > >  (http://source.winehq.org/git/wine.git/?a=commit;h=284f86183cce638ff8fce4023c...).
> > >  We need to find a better way of checking whether a service is truly installed.
> > >  (and not just some registry keys).
> >
> > http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11651#c3
> >
> > but generally comments 2-4.
>
> It's good we came to same conclusion.
>
> If we wanted to implemented a SCM where would that reside? wineboot?

programs/services

It could then be started on demand by wineboot and/or the advapi32 
services functions.
I was planning to work on this after my endpoint mapper patches are 
accepted.

-- 
Rob Shearman

[Mikołaj Zalewski]

> If we wanted to implemented a SCM where would that reside? wineboot?

The SCM is the servies.exe program. Other programs using advapi32 
communicates with it using RPC. I've started writing it - see 
http://www.winehq.org/pipermail/wine-patches/2007-September/044396.html 
. The problems with widl are fixed so it should be possible to add this 
code to Wine. Probably this code should be updated to current Wine and 
I'm not sure if I moved all the database query function to services.exe 
(it's good to more them all in one go to avoid discrepancies between the 
current advapi implementation that relies on the current state of 
registry keys and services.exe that loads all the keys at start time and 
keeps them in memory).
  I may have some time to work on it and I can help if someone who wants 
to do it (if one wants to have an idea how the SCM works there is a 
chapter about it in "Windows Internals" by M. Russinovich and D. Solomon).

Mikołaj Zalewski

[Christopher]

Mikołaj Zalewski wrote:
> > If we wanted to implemented a SCM where would that reside? wineboot?
>
> The SCM is the servies.exe program. Other programs using advapi32 
> communicates with it using RPC. I've started writing it - see 
> http://www.winehq.org/pipermail/wine-patches/2007-September/044396.html 
> . The problems with widl are fixed so it should be possible to add 
> this code to Wine. Probably this code should be updated to current 
> Wine and I'm not sure if I moved all the database query function to 
> services.exe (it's good to more them all in one go to avoid 
> discrepancies between the current advapi implementation that relies on 
> the current state of registry keys and services.exe that loads all the 
> keys at start time and keeps them in memory).
>  I may have some time to work on it and I can help if someone who 
> wants to do it (if one wants to have an idea how the SCM works there 
> is a chapter about it in "Windows Internals" by M. Russinovich and D. 
> Solomon).
>
> Mikołaj Zalewski

Thanks for sending in your patch Mikołaj, I tested MozyHome with it, but 
it didn't help anything, the service still wouldn't start. I don't have 
the experience to work on that patch by myself, but if someone else 
starts on it and would like assistance making tests or something I'm 
happy to try.

Christopher Berner

[Mikołaj Zalewski]

> Thanks for sending in your patch Mikołaj, I tested MozyHome with it, 
> but it didn't help anything, the service still wouldn't start. I don't 
> have the experience to work on that patch by myself, but if someone 
> else starts on it and would like assistance making tests or something 
> I'm happy to try.

I can look into that (I see it's bug #12030) however it looks like 
it's not a problem with starting the service but may be a problem with 
the service itself. Have you tried to run this service with e.g. notepad 
running in the background - the services are marked as system processes 
and if there is no non-system process left, all the system processes 
will terminate themselves.

Mikołaj Zalewski

[Paul Vriens]

Mikołaj Zalewski wrote:
> > Thanks for sending in your patch Mikołaj, I tested MozyHome with it, 
> > but it didn't help anything, the service still wouldn't start. I don't 
> > have the experience to work on that patch by myself, but if someone 
> > else starts on it and would like assistance making tests or something 
> > I'm happy to try.
>
> I can look into that (I see it's bug #12030) however it looks like it's 
> not a problem with starting the service but may be a problem with the 
> service itself. Have you tried to run this service with e.g. notepad 
> running in the background - the services are marked as system processes 
> and if there is no non-system process left, all the system processes 
> will terminate themselves.
>
> Mikołaj Zalewski

I already had a quick look and it looks like it fails while it tries to 
talk to mozyfilter. This is a system driver that's not (properly?) 
installed during installation for an yet unknown reason. Or is just that 
system drivers like this are not supported (yet)?

Cheers,

Paul.

[Christopher]

Mikołaj Zalewski wrote:
> > Thanks for sending in your patch Mikołaj, I tested MozyHome with it, 
> > but it didn't help anything, the service still wouldn't start. I 
> > don't have the experience to work on that patch by myself, but if 
> > someone else starts on it and would like assistance making tests or 
> > something I'm happy to try.
>
> I can look into that (I see it's bug #12030) however it looks like 
> it's not a problem with starting the service but may be a problem with 
> the service itself. Have you tried to run this service with e.g. 
> notepad running in the background - the services are marked as system 
> processes and if there is no non-system process left, all the system 
> processes will terminate themselves.
>
> Mikołaj Zalewski

I tried it with notepad running in the background, and the same thing 
happens: mozybackup.exe shows up in the process list for ~3seconds then 
disappears and the console displays the fixme's that I posted in bug #12030.

If you have time to look into it that would be great! My knowledge of 
how services work is limited at best (still an undergrad, and I haven't 
taken an OS class yet).
Christopher