RFC: Proposed new web site design
At Wineconf, we made the decision to change the entry page to the Wine web site. The hope was to simplify and stream line it, and to put in place the infrastructure to start moving more content to the Wiki. Jeremy Newman and Jon Parshall have put a lot of time and energy into a proposed new design, following what we took away from the meetings at Wineconf. A mock up of that design is up now here: http://wine.codeweavers.com/winehq_new/ ...and the theming intended for all 'child' pages of the web site, starting with the Wiki: http://wine.codeweavers.com/winehq_new/wiki.html Beyond the normal controversy that any new design sparks there is one major potential controversial change. That is, I am asking for prime placement on the download page on behalf of CodeWeavers instead of the (stale and ugly, sorry) banner ads we used in the past. You can see our current concept around that positioning here: http://wine.codeweavers.com/winehq_new/download.html I hope that the general community sees that as a reasonable exchange for all of the work we put into Wine and hosting the Wine server, and a vast improvement over the banner ads. At any rate, comments and feedback are welcome. And in a vain attempt to prevent all the flames from scorching Jon and Jeremy, I'd like to officially state how much I appreciate their efforts. Cheers, Jeremy
2008/11/24 Jeremy White <jwhite(a)codeweavers.com>:
At Wineconf, we made the decision to change the entry page to the Wine web site. The hope was to simplify and stream line it, and to put in place the infrastructure to start moving more content to the Wiki.
Jeremy Newman and Jon Parshall have put a lot of time and energy into a proposed new design, following what we took away from the meetings at Wineconf.
I like the new look - congrats Jeremy and Jon.
A mock up of that design is up now here: http://wine.codeweavers.com/winehq_new/
...and the theming intended for all 'child' pages of the web site, starting with the Wiki: http://wine.codeweavers.com/winehq_new/wiki.html
I assume that this will apply to bugzilla, AppDB and the Forum as well.
Beyond the normal controversy that any new design sparks there is one major potential controversial change.
That is, I am asking for prime placement on the download page on behalf of CodeWeavers instead of the (stale and ugly, sorry) banner ads we used in the past. You can see our current concept around that positioning here: http://wine.codeweavers.com/winehq_new/download.html
My only comment here is that it would be useful to list the 'Office' and 'Games' versions, along with the CrossOver version number and the Wine version number that they are based on. That way it is easier to tell how far off the Wine tip they are (for example if you need a version or later of Wine) and if there is a new version of CrossOver available (if you have missed the announcement on the news section). In addition to this, w.r.t. the AppDB, it may be useful to merge the Wine AppDB and CrossOver AppDB. That way you'll be able to see whether Wine, CrossOver Office or CrossOver Games is best for running the application(s) you are interested in.
I hope that the general community sees that as a reasonable exchange for all of the work we put into Wine and hosting the Wine server, and a vast improvement over the banner ads.
+1 - Reece
Reece Dunn wrote:>
My only comment here is that it would be useful to list the 'Office' and 'Games' versions, along with the CrossOver version number and the Wine version number that they are based on. That way it is easier to tell how far off the Wine tip they are (for example if you need a version or later of Wine) and if there is a new version of CrossOver available (if you have missed the announcement on the news section).
In addition to this, w.r.t. the AppDB, it may be useful to merge the Wine AppDB and CrossOver AppDB. That way you'll be able to see whether Wine, CrossOver Office or CrossOver Games is best for running the application(s) you are interested in.
While a radical idea, this would be really really nice if done properly. I see no reason for our communities to stay segregated, especially if it can help improve Wine. I was always subtly bothered by how nice Codeweavers' compatibility site was compared with AppDB, as well as the obvious duplication of terms (Maintainer vs Advocate, different rating scales, etc.) It makes Codeweavers seem more distant than they really are. Crossover users know about Wine. They continue to use Crossover even when an application works in Wine's AppDB, so I don't see any potential harm to Codeweaver's business from merging the two. Quite the opposite, actually -- it's rather hard for a visitor to Wine's AppDB to learn that an application is supported by Crossover and is guaranteed to work, and that's information a potential customer clicking through versions of "might work in Wine 1.1.7" would really like to hear. So, let's discuss it. Thanks, Scott Ritchie
On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 3:39 PM, Jeremy White <jwhite(a)codeweavers.com> wrote:
At Wineconf, we made the decision to change the entry page to the Wine web site. The hope was to simplify and stream line it, and to put in place the infrastructure to start moving more content to the Wiki.
Jeremy Newman and Jon Parshall have put a lot of time and energy into a proposed new design, following what we took away from the meetings at Wineconf.
A mock up of that design is up now here: http://wine.codeweavers.com/winehq_new/
...and the theming intended for all 'child' pages of the web site, starting with the Wiki: http://wine.codeweavers.com/winehq_new/wiki.html
Awesome great work guys! Love it for the most part. Just one nit: I hate secondary scroll bars (the scroll bar for the news). I can live with it of course, just wouldn't be there in my ideal. But really looks great overall.
Beyond the normal controversy that any new design sparks there is one major potential controversial change.
That is, I am asking for prime placement on the download page on behalf of CodeWeavers instead of the (stale and ugly, sorry) banner ads we used in the past. You can see our current concept around that positioning here: http://wine.codeweavers.com/winehq_new/download.html I hope that the general community sees that as a reasonable exchange for all of the work we put into Wine and hosting the Wine server, and a vast improvement over the banner ads.
Seems reasonable to me. Awesome effort on the design, --John Klehm
On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 4:25 PM, John Klehm <xixsimplicityxix(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 3:39 PM, Jeremy White <jwhite(a)codeweavers.com> wrote:
At Wineconf, we made the decision to change the entry page to the Wine web site. The hope was to simplify and stream line it, and to put in place the infrastructure to start moving more content to the Wiki.
Jeremy Newman and Jon Parshall have put a lot of time and energy into a proposed new design, following what we took away from the meetings at Wineconf.
A mock up of that design is up now here: http://wine.codeweavers.com/winehq_new/
...and the theming intended for all 'child' pages of the web site, starting with the Wiki: http://wine.codeweavers.com/winehq_new/wiki.html
Awesome great work guys! Love it for the most part.
Another +1. Looks much more sleek.
Just one nit: I hate secondary scroll bars (the scroll bar for the news). I can live with it of course, just wouldn't be there in my ideal.
But really looks great overall.
Beyond the normal controversy that any new design sparks there is one major potential controversial change.
That is, I am asking for prime placement on the download page on behalf of CodeWeavers instead of the (stale and ugly, sorry) banner ads we used in the past. You can see our current concept around that positioning here: http://wine.codeweavers.com/winehq_new/download.html I hope that the general community sees that as a reasonable exchange for all of the work we put into Wine and hosting the Wine server, and a vast improvement over the banner ads.
Seems reasonable to me.
FYI, you've got Crossover listed twice on that page. You didn't remove it from the bottom. -- -Austin
2008/11/24 Jeremy White <jwhite(a)codeweavers.com>:
At Wineconf, we made the decision to change the entry page to the Wine web site. The hope was to simplify and stream line it, and to put in place the infrastructure to start moving more content to the Wiki.
Another comment: on the wiki page revamp (http://wine.codeweavers.com/winehq_new/wiki.html), the side panel links do not have a hover state to indicate that you are over them, like the navigation tabs at the top. - Reece
On Monday 24 November 2008 22:39:05 Jeremy White wrote:
At Wineconf, we made the decision to change the entry page to the Wine web site. The hope was to simplify and stream line it, and to put in place the infrastructure to start moving more content to the Wiki.
Jeremy Newman and Jon Parshall have put a lot of time and energy into a proposed new design, following what we took away from the meetings at Wineconf.
A mock up of that design is up now here: http://wine.codeweavers.com/winehq_new/
...and the theming intended for all 'child' pages of the web site, starting with the Wiki: http://wine.codeweavers.com/winehq_new/wiki.html
Beyond the normal controversy that any new design sparks there is one major potential controversial change.
That is, I am asking for prime placement on the download page on behalf of CodeWeavers instead of the (stale and ugly, sorry) banner ads we used in the past. You can see our current concept around that positioning here: http://wine.codeweavers.com/winehq_new/download.html I hope that the general community sees that as a reasonable exchange for all of the work we put into Wine and hosting the Wine server, and a vast improvement over the banner ads.
At any rate, comments and feedback are welcome.
And in a vain attempt to prevent all the flames from scorching Jon and Jeremy, I'd like to officially state how much I appreciate their efforts.
Cheers,
Jeremy
This looks really ince! Do you have a mock-up for the AppDB as well? :) Alexander N: Sørnes
2008/11/24 Jeremy White <jwhite(a)codeweavers.com>:
At Wineconf, we made the decision to change the entry page to the Wine web site. The hope was to simplify and stream line it, and to put in place the infrastructure to start moving more content to the Wiki.
Jeremy Newman and Jon Parshall have put a lot of time and energy into a proposed new design, following what we took away from the meetings at Wineconf.
A mock up of that design is up now here: http://wine.codeweavers.com/winehq_new/
...and the theming intended for all 'child' pages of the web site, starting with the Wiki: http://wine.codeweavers.com/winehq_new/wiki.html
Beyond the normal controversy that any new design sparks there is one major potential controversial change.
That is, I am asking for prime placement on the download page on behalf of CodeWeavers instead of the (stale and ugly, sorry) banner ads we used in the past. You can see our current concept around that positioning here: http://wine.codeweavers.com/winehq_new/download.html I hope that the general community sees that as a reasonable exchange for all of the work we put into Wine and hosting the Wine server, and a vast improvement over the banner ads.
At any rate, comments and feedback are welcome.
And in a vain attempt to prevent all the flames from scorching Jon and Jeremy, I'd like to officially state how much I appreciate their efforts.
Cheers,
Jeremy
Looks great! I think the frontpage should have some short wine description like the current site does. Maybe something like: Wine lets you: * Install and run unmodified MS Windows programs in Linux and other platforms. * Develop MS Windows applications under other operating systems. * You don't even need a MS Windows license to do so.
Random thoughts: - I like it. - I agree that there should be a very short description of what Wine does. Probably summarizing it in 2 sentences or so where the "Run Windows Everywhere" currently is. Something like, "Run Windows applications on Linux and OS X without installing Windows. Wine is a compatibility layer for running Windows programs." - The icons next to "Information", "Help", and "Donate" are ok. The icon for Download doesn't seem as eye-catching, but the icon for Development seems a little wonky. No, I'm not going to offer any better suggestions. - I don't mind secondary scroll bars. For the haters, maybe show the current news for 4 seconds, and then start it automatically scrolling down? - Can, or should, WineHQ take over the wiki from Dimi? This might be a good opportunity. - I don't know which search terms people use to find Wine, but this sounds like a good chance to do some search engine optimization. - Currently if you go to the wiki, you can navigate back to WineHQ, AppDB, Forums, etc on the left. The sample doesn't have that. -------- Brian
2008/11/25 Brian Vincent <brian.vincent(a)gmail.com>:
Random thoughts: - Currently if you go to the wiki, you can navigate back to WineHQ, AppDB, Forums, etc on the left. The sample doesn't have that.
Those links have been moved to the top. As such, they are (or will/should be) consistent throughout the website. The same applies to the front page as well (the links have moved from the left hand side as well). -- Additional observation: The CodeWeavers icon at the bottom -- there is a gradient from top to bottom (is this intentional?); the text and the 'C' graphic have a white border which makes it jarring w.r.t. the dark background (it looks pixelated and is slightly harder to read as a result). Is the image a gif instead of a png with an alpha channel? - Reece
On Tuesday 25 November 2008 01:59:12 Brian Vincent wrote:
- I don't know which search terms people use to find Wine, but this sounds like a good chance to do some search engine optimization.
Dunno. If I enter "wine" into Google, the first hit is www.winehq.org, followed by Wikipedia's Wine(software) article and the Wine section of the Ubuntu forums, before giving the Wine(beverage) Wikipedia article. These might be slightly off due to the fact that Google decides I'm German and prefer German websites and German websites about the beverage spell it "Wein". All in all it looks like we're well-represented, though. Cheers, Kai -- Kai Blin WorldForge developer http://www.worldforge.org/ Wine developer http://wiki.winehq.org/KaiBlin Samba team member http://www.samba.org/samba/team/ -- Will code for cotton.
+1 Looks nice :) Tom On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 4:39 PM, Jeremy White <jwhite(a)codeweavers.com> wrote:
At Wineconf, we made the decision to change the entry page to the Wine web site. The hope was to simplify and stream line it, and to put in place the infrastructure to start moving more content to the Wiki.
Cheers,
Jeremy
Jeremy White wrote:
At Wineconf, we made the decision to change the entry page to the Wine web site. The hope was to simplify and stream line it, and to put in place the infrastructure to start moving more content to the Wiki.
Jeremy Newman and Jon Parshall have put a lot of time and energy into a proposed new design, following what we took away from the meetings at Wineconf.
I thought we took away that Dan Kegel would magically pull a design out of his wizard's hat. Regardless, thanks for doing the work.
A mock up of that design is up now here: http://wine.codeweavers.com/winehq_new/
...and the theming intended for all 'child' pages of the web site, starting with the Wiki: http://wine.codeweavers.com/winehq_new/wiki.html
As Wine's unofficial usability evangelist, I present a quick and dirty review of the new design below. Keep one point in mind: it's much better, and thank you for getting it done.
Beyond the normal controversy that any new design sparks there is one major potential controversial change.
That is, I am asking for prime placement on the download page on behalf of CodeWeavers instead of the (stale and ugly, sorry) banner ads we used in the past. You can see our current concept around that positioning here: http://wine.codeweavers.com/winehq_new/download.html
Anything is better than making our website look like it was from 1998. Perhaps not coincidentally, that's how many people viewed the quality of our software.
I hope that the general community sees that as a reasonable exchange for all of the work we put into Wine and hosting the Wine server, and a vast improvement over the banner ads.
At any rate, comments and feedback are welcome.
Good: * Much friendlier, better looking, easier to focus on what I want. Looks professional. * The prominent donate link on the front page is very recognizable. I guarantee you'll have more donations as a result. * All the old cruft links are gone. * The new small icon reflects the main image on the site, and also no longer has the tiny artifacts that the old one did. Impressive. Can be improved with minor tweaks: * The news should be clickable, and take you to a separate news page with slightly longer stories. * Rather than getting smaller when you hover the mouse over the buttons, it should be the other way around - highlight them and they get bigger * The slogan "Windows software everywhere" doesn't make much sense. I would replace it with a very small boilerplate text that says what Wine does, namely "Wine lets you run Windows applications in Linux and on the Mac". This summarizes everything for someone visiting the site who has never heard of Wine before. * The "Help!" button could be a bit friendlier, eg "Get Help" or "Support". At the least, drop the exclamation point. * The text under Donate is obvious, so we can benefit from a bit of explanation. Something like "Help volunteer Wine developers improve Wine" -- this also helps sell the donate button * The text under "Download" could be more extensive too, eg "Get the latest Wine packaged for your distribution" -- I don't think we lose much by using a short sentence here since the text is already partially transparent and optional to read. * The download icon is weird. A large down arrow would probably be better than a CD, especially since we don't offer anything CD-like. * Similarly, using the classic "wrench" icon for development would be a bit more obvious. As it is now I'm not sure what it means except for the word development right next to it. Bad: * The inlaid scrollbar under the news tab. However, I think the proper way to deal with this is to simply have shorter news stories rather than change the scroll bar. The current sample news (Wine 1.1.7 released), for instance, could easily be just 2 sentences and a link to the larger story. Longer stories could be reserved for a separate news page.
And in a vain attempt to prevent all the flames from scorching Jon and Jeremy, I'd like to officially state how much I appreciate their efforts.
It looks really good in general. I'm excited. Thanks, Scott Ritchie
2008/11/24 Scott Ritchie <scott(a)open-vote.org>:
Jeremy White wrote:
At Wineconf, we made the decision to change the entry page to the Wine web site. The hope was to simplify and stream line it, and to put in place the infrastructure to start moving more content to the Wiki.
Jeremy Newman and Jon Parshall have put a lot of time and energy into a proposed new design, following what we took away from the meetings at Wineconf.
I thought we took away that Dan Kegel would magically pull a design out of his wizard's hat. Regardless, thanks for doing the work.
A mock up of that design is up now here: http://wine.codeweavers.com/winehq_new/
...and the theming intended for all 'child' pages of the web site, starting with the Wiki: http://wine.codeweavers.com/winehq_new/wiki.html
As Wine's unofficial usability evangelist, I present a quick and dirty review of the new design below. Keep one point in mind: it's much better, and thank you for getting it done.
Beyond the normal controversy that any new design sparks there is one major potential controversial change.
That is, I am asking for prime placement on the download page on behalf of CodeWeavers instead of the (stale and ugly, sorry) banner ads we used in the past. You can see our current concept around that positioning here: http://wine.codeweavers.com/winehq_new/download.html
Anything is better than making our website look like it was from 1998. Perhaps not coincidentally, that's how many people viewed the quality of our software.
I hope that the general community sees that as a reasonable exchange for all of the work we put into Wine and hosting the Wine server, and a vast improvement over the banner ads.
At any rate, comments and feedback are welcome.
Good: * Much friendlier, better looking, easier to focus on what I want. Looks professional. * The prominent donate link on the front page is very recognizable. I guarantee you'll have more donations as a result. * All the old cruft links are gone. * The new small icon reflects the main image on the site, and also no longer has the tiny artifacts that the old one did. Impressive.
Can be improved with minor tweaks: * The news should be clickable, and take you to a separate news page with slightly longer stories. * Rather than getting smaller when you hover the mouse over the buttons, it should be the other way around - highlight them and they get bigger * The slogan "Windows software everywhere" doesn't make much sense. I would replace it with a very small boilerplate text that says what Wine does, namely "Wine lets you run Windows applications in Linux and on the Mac". This summarizes everything for someone visiting the site who has never heard of Wine before. * The "Help!" button could be a bit friendlier, eg "Get Help" or "Support". At the least, drop the exclamation point. * The text under Donate is obvious, so we can benefit from a bit of explanation. Something like "Help volunteer Wine developers improve Wine" -- this also helps sell the donate button * The text under "Download" could be more extensive too, eg "Get the latest Wine packaged for your distribution" -- I don't think we lose much by using a short sentence here since the text is already partially transparent and optional to read. * The download icon is weird. A large down arrow would probably be better than a CD, especially since we don't offer anything CD-like. * Similarly, using the classic "wrench" icon for development would be a bit more obvious. As it is now I'm not sure what it means except for the word development right next to it.
Bad: * The inlaid scrollbar under the news tab. However, I think the proper way to deal with this is to simply have shorter news stories rather than change the scroll bar. The current sample news (Wine 1.1.7 released), for instance, could easily be just 2 sentences and a link to the larger story. Longer stories could be reserved for a separate news page.
And in a vain attempt to prevent all the flames from scorching Jon and Jeremy, I'd like to officially state how much I appreciate their efforts.
It looks really good in general. I'm excited.
Thanks, Scott Ritchie
Here's a quick relayout with some of the ideas posted in this thread: http://caih.org/wine/WineHQ.html
Cesar Izurieta wrote:
Here's a quick relayout with some of the ideas posted in this thread:
Ewww. The vertical alignment is much better, and the news dragging to the bottom is just tacky. We also don't really need a link to AppDB from the big buttons in the front - AppDB is only the place to go when you're looking for it (hence the button in the upper right) or once you know something about Wine (hence a link in the about page). Thanks, Scott Ritchie
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 12:27 AM, Scott Ritchie <scott(a)open-vote.org> wrote:
We also don't really need a link to AppDB from the big buttons in the front - AppDB is only the place to go when you're looking for it (hence the button in the upper right) or once you know something about Wine (hence a link in the about page).
I disagree. You could make the same argument against bugzilla/forums/wiki. The frontpage should serve as a portal to the rest of the site. Many times when I needs appdb/wiki, I go to winehq.org and then click the appropriate link. -- -Austin
Austin English wrote:
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 12:27 AM, Scott Ritchie <scott(a)open-vote.org> wrote:
We also don't really need a link to AppDB from the big buttons in the front - AppDB is only the place to go when you're looking for it (hence the button in the upper right) or once you know something about Wine (hence a link in the about page).
I disagree. You could make the same argument against bugzilla/forums/wiki. The frontpage should serve as a portal to the rest of the site. Many times when I needs appdb/wiki, I go to winehq.org and then click the appropriate link.
I'm not arguing against that - we absolutely should have an AppDB and a bugzilla link in the corner. They're very useful. I'm just saying such a link doesn't have to also be among the large, friendly buttons at the left, which is where a complete newcomer's eyes are drawn. A newcomer who doesn't know what they're looking for, and thus probably doesn't want AppDB or Bugzilla yet (but does probably want About, Download, or Support) Thanks, Scott Ritchie
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Scott Ritchie <scott(a)open-vote.org> wrote:
Austin English wrote:
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 12:27 AM, Scott Ritchie <scott(a)open-vote.org> wrote:
We also don't really need a link to AppDB from the big buttons in the front - AppDB is only the place to go when you're looking for it (hence the button in the upper right) or once you know something about Wine (hence a link in the about page).
I disagree. You could make the same argument against bugzilla/forums/wiki. The frontpage should serve as a portal to the rest of the site. Many times when I needs appdb/wiki, I go to winehq.org and then click the appropriate link.
I'm not arguing against that - we absolutely should have an AppDB and a bugzilla link in the corner. They're very useful.
I'm just saying such a link doesn't have to also be among the large, friendly buttons at the left, which is where a complete newcomer's eyes are drawn. A newcomer who doesn't know what they're looking for, and thus probably doesn't want AppDB or Bugzilla yet (but does probably want About, Download, or Support)
Thanks, Scott Ritchie
I'm not a fan of the huge buttons and links, I think they're an eyesore. I would prefer it to look like how wiki is here http://wine.codeweavers.com/winehq_new/wiki.html Also I think the latest news about the project should be a centrepiece like it is in the existing design, not swept away to the side, -Jeff
Jeff Zaroyko wrote:
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Scott Ritchie <scott(a)open-vote.org> wrote:
Austin English wrote:
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 12:27 AM, Scott Ritchie <scott(a)open-vote.org> wrote:
We also don't really need a link to AppDB from the big buttons in the front - AppDB is only the place to go when you're looking for it (hence the button in the upper right) or once you know something about Wine (hence a link in the about page).
I disagree. You could make the same argument against bugzilla/forums/wiki. The frontpage should serve as a portal to the rest of the site. Many times when I needs appdb/wiki, I go to winehq.org and then click the appropriate link.
I'm not arguing against that - we absolutely should have an AppDB and a bugzilla link in the corner. They're very useful.
I'm just saying such a link doesn't have to also be among the large, friendly buttons at the left, which is where a complete newcomer's eyes are drawn. A newcomer who doesn't know what they're looking for, and thus probably doesn't want AppDB or Bugzilla yet (but does probably want About, Download, or Support)
Thanks, Scott Ritchie
I'm not a fan of the huge buttons and links, I think they're an eyesore.
I would prefer it to look like how wiki is here http://wine.codeweavers.com/winehq_new/wiki.html Also I think the latest news about the project should be a centrepiece like it is in the existing design, not swept away to the side,
-Jeff
What would all that other information you want to cram in there be, though? Almost all of the information that goes onto the current main page is better homed in the wiki, and as a developer I rarely find myself at the actual front page of the current winehq. Stuff like "Sending Patches" is certainly not going to be ever clicked on by a newcomer straight off the internet, for instance. By including such links on the front page, however, we risk scaring away visitors by cluttering their first impression with irrelevant or confusing stuff. You are right that the news being prominent - that's why it's on the front page, and why we should have a dedicated news page. Putting a typical Wine news blurb in its entirety is a bit too far -- the majority of the text on the front page would be stuff like "Still better crypt32 support" instead of what we want them to read. I suggest we print the headlines, and keep the site focused on what's important for newcomers. This redesign is a dramatic step, no doubt. It refocuses the page towards users rather than Wine developers. You and I as serious Wine people will need to shift our behavior somewhat to get the same use of the site. Instead of interacting with the front page of the Wine website we'll be one step underneath (such as from the main wiki page or the contribution page). However, I think it's a worthy sacrifice - the new design looks like a page I can genuinely send a stranger to. Thanks, Scott Ritchie
2008/11/25 Scott Ritchie <scott(a)open-vote.org>:
Cesar Izurieta wrote:
Here's a quick relayout with some of the ideas posted in this thread:
Ewww. The vertical alignment is much better, and the news dragging to the bottom is just tacky.
I agree. For the news, how about just listing them by the date and title - this should give you enough information for a quick glance. The title then links to the extended announcement. As an alternative, there could be an expander to get the mini summary. And an RSS feed would be very nice :). Something like: News ------------------ November 7, 2008: [+] Wine 1.1.8 Released October 24, 2008: [-] Wine 1.1.7 Released The Wine development release 1.1.7 is now available. ... [rss] Also, +1 for CSS roll over and menus (there are plenty of examples and tutorials on the net), and it should be possible - with carefully crafted HTML+CSS to support older/broken browsers if needed. - Reece
Hi all, I'm really excited about the new redesign effort. Overall the first attempt seemed more consistent. I like the vertical alignment more. I've got troubles to get oriented in the second attempt. Black background of search dialog seems more consistent with the page style. I'm absolutely happy with the top buttons: WineHQ, Wiki, AppDB, Bugzilla, Forums That would make winehq my default site instead of using 3 addresses. I'd vote for hover hints in Wiki left menu. Cheers Hark Scott Ritchie wrote:
Cesar Izurieta wrote:
Here's a quick relayout with some of the ideas posted in this thread:
Ewww. The vertical alignment is much better, and the news dragging to the bottom is just tacky.
Scott Ritchie
On Mon, 24 Nov 2008, Scott Ritchie wrote: [...]
Can be improved with minor tweaks: * The news should be clickable, and take you to a separate news page with slightly longer stories.
Agreed. We should have a separate news page. It could probably work as the news archive page directly: just show the most recent 10 news items with a link at the bottom to get the next 10, etc. In the sidebox 'News' should link to that page. To save space, we could omit the year, after all nowadays the news items are frequent enough that the year is not ambiguous. So November 7, 2008: Wine 1.1.8 Released would become November 7: Wine 1.1.8 Released And we could remove the following sentence altogether as it does not add anything to the new title: The Wine development release 1.1.8 is now available.
* Rather than getting smaller when you hover the mouse over the buttons, it should be the other way around - highlight them and they get bigger
Agreed too. I guess the idea it to make it look like the button has been pressed but I don't like it. It would be nicer if a kind of neon ring lit up around it (like in some elevators). [...]
* I would replace it with a very small boilerplate text that says what Wine does, namely "Wine lets you run Windows applications in Linux and on the Mac".
We don't want to be Linux-centric however (it's hard enough as it is to convince FreeBSD users we don't hate them). So maybe replace Linux with Unix, or add in FreeBSD, or simply BSD into it. And I think we can drop the beginning of the sentence since it will appear as follows: WINE hq Runs Windows applications on Linux, BSD and Mac OS X. (I'd even be tempted to bold 'applications' for newbies...)
* The "Help!" button could be a bit friendlier, eg "Get Help" or "Support". At the least, drop the exclamation point.
Well, 'Help!' has a nice Beatles ring to it, while 'Get Help' sounds very much like 'Go see a Shrink' and 'Support' like we're going to put them in touch with an 'Alcoholics Anonymous' group. <g> More seriously, the problem with using single words is that it makes it harder to keep consistent about using the active or passive form. So we have: * 'Information' and 'Development' on the passive side. * 'Download' and 'Donate' on the active side. * 'Help!' on one side or the other, depending on how you understand it. Notice how OpenOffice.org avoids this issue by using proper sentences. [...]
* The download icon is weird. A large down arrow would probably be better than a CD, especially since we don't offer anything CD-like. * Similarly, using the classic "wrench" icon for development would be a bit more obvious.
Sounds good too. I'm not a big fan of the high contrast in the colors. The OpenOffice.org site is much softer in that respect. But then colors... I also find the glass on the main page to be huge (as in too big). I don't know if it is related, but on my laptop (1024x768) there is no background to the right of the sidebar. There is ample blank space next to the main buttons though. So there's some work needed so the site can adapt to lower window widths. It should be able to cope down to about 820 pixels as far as I can see here. -- Francois Gouget <fgouget(a)free.fr> http://fgouget.free.fr/ Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he'll be a mile away - and barefoot.
A few comments from an outsider: * Looks very Web 2.0-ish. Gradients, glossiness, rounded corners, dark background. You might want to tune it down slightly to make it look more polished. But this may just be my personal dislike for Web 2.0 designs. * I am missing an introductory text. It should be really short, like: "Wine lets you run Windows programs on Linux and the Mac, so you don't need to buy Windows." (Addendum: That introduction in the latest relayout is too technical and long.) * About the big links: great! WineHQ was always hard to navigate, but this is really nice! The grey text is a little hard to read though. I think it wouldn't hurt the overall readability if the contrast was a little higher, say #777 or even #555. The smaller size already does the job of making that text secondary to the links. * I really liked the random screen-shots that showed what Wine could do. Maybe it could be worked back into the new design at the bottom of the page? Something like: "Wine can run many programs, including these:" And then three screen-shots with a caption that says which program it is. Those then link to their respective AppDB pages. It could be too much clutter though. Remco
A few comments from a long-time supporter and amateur web-developer: * I like the look of it! Very nice work * I agree with previous comments about the nested scroll area, however I believe that a brief News section does belong on the main page. If no other (reasonable) solution is presented, the current mock-up layout is tollerable * Tables for layout? Only if you have to (should consider browser targeting here, i.e. does WineHQ want to support IE6?) * Again related to browser targeting, CSS-based "roll-overs" should ideally be prefered over Javascript ones * A brief description of Wine would be suitable for the main page, possibly even as little as changing "Windows Software Everywhere.." to read "Windows software on Unix-like systems" * I'd suggest changing "Information" to read "About" (maybe a bit nit-picky, but it seems less formal) * Perhaps we could integrate some of the key FAQ items into the Information/About page, e.g. running from the command-line, maybe even the one on DirectX. At the least, a direct link to the FAQ would be nice :) I do like the new layout a lot and with any luck it will stop people in #winehq complaining that they can't find appdb, or the search bar, or even where to download Wine from. Well done once again!
I like the new style however I can't help but feel that: - The links should be where the news is - The news should be where the links are - There's no about wine text like there is on the old page and I don't think moving it to an "about" page is a good idea. Regards, Andrew
The look of the website has improved a lot and it feels a lot more modern. Personally I don't like the front page much. I find it a bit empty. I would like to see what Wine is. I would suggest to look at http://www.go-mono.com the website of the Mono project. On their website your directly see on a banner what Mono is and a list with important features is shown in a column on the left. I think Wine's main features could be shown in a similar way. Sure you could have an information page but I think doing what the Mono guys did is enough for 90% of the people. News could be shown in a similar way. I'm not saying we should clone their website but personally I don't like the 'openoffice.org'-like design much. Roderick
At Wineconf, we made the decision to change the entry page to the Wine web site. The hope was to simplify and stream line it, and to put in place the infrastructure to start moving more content to the Wiki.
Jeremy Newman and Jon Parshall have put a lot of time and energy into a proposed new design, following what we took away from the meetings at Wineconf.
A mock up of that design is up now here: http://wine.codeweavers.com/winehq_new/
...and the theming intended for all 'child' pages of the web site, starting with the Wiki: http://wine.codeweavers.com/winehq_new/wiki.html
Beyond the normal controversy that any new design sparks there is one major potential controversial change.
That is, I am asking for prime placement on the download page on behalf of CodeWeavers instead of the (stale and ugly, sorry) banner ads we used in the past. You can see our current concept around that positioning here: http://wine.codeweavers.com/winehq_new/download.html I hope that the general community sees that as a reasonable exchange for all of the work we put into Wine and hosting the Wine server, and a vast improvement over the banner ads.
At any rate, comments and feedback are welcome.
And in a vain attempt to prevent all the flames from scorching Jon and Jeremy, I'd like to officially state how much I appreciate their efforts.
Cheers,
Jeremy
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Roderick Colenbrander wrote:
The look of the website has improved a lot and it feels a lot more modern. Personally I don't like the front page much. I find it a bit empty. I would like to see what Wine is. I would suggest to look at http://www.go-mono.com the website of the Mono project. On their website your directly see on a banner what Mono is and a list with important features is shown in a column on the left. I think Wine's main features could be shown in a similar way. Sure you could have an information page but I think doing what the Mono guys did is enough for 90% of the people. News could be shown in a similar way. I'm not saying we should clone their website but personally I don't like the 'openoffice.org'-like design much.
Roderick
Hi Roderick, I consider the Mono example developer-oriented page. There is too much irrelevant information packed on one page for usual user or tester. As Wine is targeting broader audience than developers, I think the Jeremy's mockup is much more to the point. Cheers Hark
The Wine design would focus more on users. The 'banner' would be about running your Windows programs on Linux/FreeBSD/Mac and would mention office apps, games and so on. The highlights would show features e.g. support for Win3.1-XP, DirectX capability and so on. Roderick
Roderick Colenbrander wrote:
The look of the website has improved a lot and it feels a lot more modern. Personally I don't like the front page much. I find it a bit empty. I would like to see what Wine is. I would suggest to look at http://www.go-mono.com the website of the Mono project. On their website your directly see on a banner what Mono is and a list with important features is shown in a column on the left. I think Wine's main features could be shown in a similar way. Sure you could have an information page but I think doing what the Mono guys did is enough for 90% of the people. News could be shown in a similar way. I'm not saying we should clone their website but personally I don't like the 'openoffice.org'-like design much.
Roderick
Hi Roderick, I consider the Mono example developer-oriented page. There is too much irrelevant information packed on one page for usual user or tester.
As Wine is targeting broader audience than developers, I think the Jeremy's mockup is much more to the point. Cheers Hark
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There's a lot of talk going on here about "User focus" which is absolutely great. In the 15 years of Wine development, we've accrued quite a large user base (myself included; I've never even written a patch for Wine, and only started using Wine 5-6 years ago). Perhaps these questions need to be answered: Q 1) What do users want to see on the site? Q 2) What do we *want* the users to see on the site? Q 3) What *will* the users see when they visit the site? I propose the following answers: A 1) Some download (or instructions to download something) that makes all their Windows programs work nicely, fluff their pillows and make them a good cup of cocoa. Regular visitors would want to see signs of project activity (such as the WWN or the 2-weekly release notices) A 2) The FAQ (and other useful information) A 3) The eye is drawn to the big white box in the square that says "Information, Download, Help" etc. Most users will likely click on the "Download" link straight away, but maybe while it's downloading they'll take a look at the "Information". The buttons at the top are secondary and at the moment, not likely to be noticed by a first-time visitor. This is coming from someone who's answered a lot of questions in #winehq that are answered quite well by the FAQ. I think the proposed layout is good overall. Both the original proposition linked to by Jeremy and Cesar's modifications have pros and cons, and are IMO a vast improvement on the current winehq site. The rest of my two cents: - Keep the "buttons" to the sub-sites at the top right. Visible, but out of the way at the same time - Keep the news items on the front page brief and have a dedicated news/archive page for full details - Scrap the "latest releases" section (only kidding, but it's about the only thing so far that hasn't been objected to in some way) - Less wine, more beer! (Or in .de, weniger wein, mehr bier!)
It's looking pretty good, but I think that the one at http://caih.org/wine/WineHQ.html is a little better. What I really don't like about them is that everything's a bit too rounded, which looks a little tacky. The icons, tabs, and white backgrounds could all be squarer. Also, the icons and links are probably a bit too big. Anyway, I hacked together a quick idea of how the tabs could possibly be made a bit nicer - http://stephengentle.com/media/images/wine/tabs.png . I didn't put in any of the content, or most of the boxes, but it's more the tabs I was focusing on. I also made the wine glass logo a little smaller, and the main box less rounded - which I think looks better. The WineHQ test could probably be made a little smaller as well... -Stephen
On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 4:39 PM, Jeremy White <jwhite(a)codeweavers.com> wrote:
At Wineconf, we made the decision to change the entry page to the Wine web site. The hope was to simplify and stream line it, and to put in place the infrastructure to start moving more content to the Wiki.
Jeremy Newman and Jon Parshall have put a lot of time and energy into a proposed new design, following what we took away from the meetings at Wineconf.
+1 They have done a kickass job with this layout. -- Steven Edwards "There is one thing stronger than all the armies in the world, and that is an idea whose time has come." - Victor Hugo
On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 4:39 PM, Jeremy White <jwhite(a)codeweavers.com> wrote:
At Wineconf, we made the decision to change the entry page to the Wine web site. The hope was to simplify and stream line it, and to put in place the infrastructure to start moving more content to the Wiki.
Jeremy Newman and Jon Parshall have put a lot of time and energy into a proposed new design, following what we took away from the meetings at Wineconf.
A mock up of that design is up now here: http://wine.codeweavers.com/winehq_new/
That was slick, the mock up listed Bordeaux under third party apps and when the site went live it was somehow removed :D Cheers, Tom -- http://www.wine-reviews.net/
Hey Tom,
That was slick, the mock up listed Bordeaux under third party apps and when the site went live it was somehow removed :D
Well, the mockup had a fairly crummy presentation of Bordeaux; I meant to ask Steven to submit a better put together version, with nicer graphics and such, but I forgot. Hopefully this will serve for that. Cheers, Jeremy
participants (19)
-
Alexander Nicolaysen Sørnes -
Andrew Fenn -
Austin English -
Ben Klein -
Brian Vincent -
Cesar Izurieta -
Francois Gouget -
Jeff Zaroyko -
Jeremy White -
John Klehm -
Kai Blin -
Reece Dunn -
Remco -
Roderick Colenbrander -
Scott Ritchie -
Stephen Gentle -
Steven Edwards -
Tom Wickline -
Vit Hrachovy