Wine 0.9.25 full of regressions!

[Mirek]

Hi, i just instaled wine 0.9.25 (i had 0.9.24) and it is full of 
regressions, why is this possible, why is not there someone who can test 
wine before it came out to new release?

1. 3DMark 2003 - cant open setigns menu
2. 3DMark 2003 - with GLSL, almost all working test are broken (bad graphic)
3. 3DMark 2003 - with ARB is about 25% slower
4. HL2 Episode One - Some characters are black
5. NFS: MW - with ARB it is slower
6. W3 - cannot run, because of Opengl init
7. W3 FT - same as W3
8. nVidiaSDK - opengl demos in nVidia are not working anymore
9. nVidiaSDK - some Direct3D demos are broken more than in release 0.9.24
9. Prey - not working


This is pretty big list, almost half of my apps are not working, or 
working worst than before, it is sad.

Mirek Slugen

[Aaron Slunt]

Mirek wrote:
> Hi, i just instaled wine 0.9.25 (i had 0.9.24) and it is full of 
> regressions, why is this possible, why is not there someone who can 
> test wine before it came out to new release?
>
> 1. 3DMark 2003 - cant open setigns menu
> 2. 3DMark 2003 - with GLSL, almost all working test are broken (bad 
> graphic)
> 3. 3DMark 2003 - with ARB is about 25% slower
> 4. HL2 Episode One - Some characters are black
> 5. NFS: MW - with ARB it is slower
> 6. W3 - cannot run, because of Opengl init
> 7. W3 FT - same as W3
> 8. nVidiaSDK - opengl demos in nVidia are not working anymore
> 9. nVidiaSDK - some Direct3D demos are broken more than in release 0.9.24
> 9. Prey - not working
>
> This is pretty big list, almost half of my apps are not working, or 
> working worst than before, it is sad.
>
> Mirek Slugen

Wine is still beta software, it has never been officially released, 
therefore you have to expect these sorts of things.

[Joseph Garvin]

Aaron Slunt wrote:
> > Wine is still beta software, it has never been officially released,
> > therefore you have to expect these sorts of things.

I think that misses the point. Users expect software to improve between
releases, not totally break. It's pretty obvious that there is no one
checking to make sure common apps work before rolling the release
tarballs. Granted, sometimes it's necessary for parts of wine to be
totally restructured in order to do things correctly and avoiding
regressions in this case is unavoidable, but as far as I'm aware from
lurking on wine-patches there weren't any great restructurings of how
OpenGL worked in 0.9.25. To be honest it doesn't feel like there has
been a significant move towards preventing regressions since 0.9.0,
which I thought was the point of that release, although I may misunderstand.

Why would it be so difficult to have someone to pick a couple of common
apps, like winzip, word, and warcraft3, and make sure they still
function before every release?

[Aaron Slunt]

On 11/12/06, Joseph Garvin <k04jg02(a)kzoo.edu> wrote:
> Aaron Slunt wrote:
> > > Wine is still beta software, it has never been officially released,
> > > therefore you have to expect these sorts of things.
>
> I think that misses the point. Users expect software to improve between
> releases, not totally break. It's pretty obvious that there is no one
> checking to make sure common apps work before rolling the release
> tarballs. Granted, sometimes it's necessary for parts of wine to be
> totally restructured in order to do things correctly and avoiding
> regressions in this case is unavoidable, but as far as I'm aware from
> lurking on wine-patches there weren't any great restructurings of how
> OpenGL worked in 0.9.25. To be honest it doesn't feel like there has
> been a significant move towards preventing regressions since 0.9.0,
> which I thought was the point of that release, although I may
> misunderstand.
>
> Why would it be so difficult to have someone to pick a couple of common
> apps, like winzip, word, and warcraft3, and make sure they still
> function before every release?

I don't see the point in this. It's not officially released software, so why
put resources in to test apps on non-official software?

If something breaks in the latest release, go back to the one before that
that was working, and file a bug in bugzilla about the regressions.

If there isn't a problem, then properly testing beta software will just
waste time. If there is a problem, then bugzilla is just as effective as
testing.

-- 
Tired of being hammered by spyware, or want to browse the internet in a
whole new way? Download Firefox and enjoy a much better internet experience.
http://getfirefox.com/

[Peter Beutner]

Joseph Garvin schrieb:
> Aaron Slunt wrote:
> > > Wine is still beta software, it has never been officially released,
> > > therefore you have to expect these sorts of things.
>
> I think that misses the point. Users expect software to improve between
> releases, not totally break. It's pretty obvious that there is no one
> checking to make sure common apps work before rolling the release
> tarballs. Granted, sometimes it's necessary for parts of wine to be
> totally restructured in order to do things correctly and avoiding
> regressions in this case is unavoidable, but as far as I'm aware from
> lurking on wine-patches there weren't any great restructurings of how
> OpenGL worked in 0.9.25. To be honest it doesn't feel like there has
> been a significant move towards preventing regressions since 0.9.0,
> which I thought was the point of that release, although I may misunderstand.
>
> Why would it be so difficult to have someone to pick a couple of common
> apps, like winzip, word, and warcraft3, and make sure they still
> function before every release?

I think you shouldn't see 0.9.{1...25} as "real releases" but more as regular
development snapshots of the code to help getting it tested by more people.
There is (as far as i can tell) no extra testing before a release or holding it
back due to known regressions.

In that sense the last "real release" (with feature freeze, concentrating on bugfixes, etc)
was 0.9.

[Jesse Allen]

On 11/12/06, Joseph Garvin <k04jg02(a)kzoo.edu> wrote:
> Why would it be so difficult to have someone to pick a couple of common
> apps, like winzip, word, and warcraft3, and make sure they still
> function before every release?

Here's a common problem. I tested Warcraft 3 with 0.9.25 from compile,
new wine prefix, game install, patch, start, battle.net all this
weekend and it worked fine. Not everyone receives the same experience.
I'm the maintainer so I do know when it regresses for me and usually I
fix it right then because I can. And I have been able to keep track
the git almost daily so problems with Warcraft 3 have actually
remained minimal (er I would say non-existant ... but). I cannot fix
other problems unless I receive proper reports. I have no idea what
Mirek's problem is and he definately has not reported it the proper
way.

I do know of an open bug where there is a weird packaging/build
problem or nvidia+X.org 7.1 problem that prevents Warcraft 3 from
starting on ubuntu 6.10. So I actually downloaded it installed the
distro on my hard drive, which is why I did the above test with
Warcraft 3. So when I did all that just to research a problem, it
simply worked fine on my install of ubuntu. So I lack enough
information to progress on it. Could this be Mirek's problem --
possibly. Should we have held up 0.9.25 for a rather obscure problem?
Heck no. Even more reason, most people don't test tree snapshots, so
the only way we know of some problems is when we make a release, and
that's probably why we have releases every two weeks; so that Wine
gets widespread testing.

Jesse

[Mirek]

Hi, i am testing wine about every 3 days from current git. Warcraft 3 
cant run for me if i am using option "-opengl", with direct3d (default) 
it is working without any problems, but it is slower. If you want i can 
do testing every second day (after some changes in CVS) and report 
problems, but i cant every time find patch which is responsible for 
that. I think opengl rewriting should be done internaly, not merging 
half of work into current CVS, because it broke so much apps.

Mirek Slugen

Jesse Allen napsal(a):
> On 11/12/06, Joseph Garvin <k04jg02(a)kzoo.edu> wrote:
> > Why would it be so difficult to have someone to pick a couple of common
> > apps, like winzip, word, and warcraft3, and make sure they still
> > function before every release?
>
> Here's a common problem. I tested Warcraft 3 with 0.9.25 from compile,
> new wine prefix, game install, patch, start, battle.net all this
> weekend and it worked fine. Not everyone receives the same experience.
> I'm the maintainer so I do know when it regresses for me and usually I
> fix it right then because I can. And I have been able to keep track
> the git almost daily so problems with Warcraft 3 have actually
> remained minimal (er I would say non-existant ... but). I cannot fix
> other problems unless I receive proper reports. I have no idea what
> Mirek's problem is and he definately has not reported it the proper
> way.
>
> I do know of an open bug where there is a weird packaging/build
> problem or nvidia+X.org 7.1 problem that prevents Warcraft 3 from
> starting on ubuntu 6.10. So I actually downloaded it installed the
> distro on my hard drive, which is why I did the above test with
> Warcraft 3. So when I did all that just to research a problem, it
> simply worked fine on my install of ubuntu. So I lack enough
> information to progress on it. Could this be Mirek's problem --
> possibly. Should we have held up 0.9.25 for a rather obscure problem?
> Heck no. Even more reason, most people don't test tree snapshots, so
> the only way we know of some problems is when we make a release, and
> that's probably why we have releases every two weeks; so that Wine
> gets widespread testing.
>
> Jesse

Wine 0.9.25 full of regressions! ( for certain applications )

[Nick Law]

For what it's worth, World of Warcraft is working well in opengl mode 
except for certain hardware... For instance ATI X series seem to have 
crashes however I'm not sure if this is widespread or just one or two 
users. ON ATI 8500 series & higher cards opengl is working well but ONLY 
if you add the registry key that adds DisabledExtensions. The location 
of this key changed between .24 & .25. You could try adding this key to 
see if that fixes you problems. See 
http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?iVersionId=5606 for details on how 
you add this key. ( These bugs have been reported correctly in bugzilla, 
just for the record ) These problems have been there for the last 5 + 
revisions so nothing has regressed much for WoW users... in fact more 
things were fixed than break for Wow.

Version .25 fixed the flicker problem in World of Warcraft for Nvidia 
cards. So for Wow users with Nvidia hardware 0.25 may run better than 
0.24... so depending on your perspective wine may be running better then 
ever before.

I'd also like to stick up for the developers here, when they make a 
change they do it as best they can, but they have to rely upon the users 
to report problems, the developers can't possibly test every single app 
that uses opengl or D3D every time they make a change, they can maybe 
check one or two that they have, what users seem to forget is that they, 
the users are the real 'testers' and are part of the development team. 
Their job is to test their favorite apps then report back on issues, but 
expect the occasional backwards step as wine is still is in constant 
development. As Jesse said, that's why it's released every two weeks.

For those that rely upon wine to run their favorite application, then 
install your stable version of wine that runs your application somewhere 
other than the default installation directory and use that while still 
downloading and testing the latest release. Then when the latest wine 
breaks you application it doesn't stop you using your favorite app

Nick
----------------
Mirek wrote:
> Hi, i am testing wine about every 3 days from current git. Warcraft 3 
> cant run for me if i am using option "-opengl", with direct3d 
> (default) it is working without any problems, but it is slower. If you 
> want i can do testing every second day (after some changes in CVS) and 
> report problems, but i cant every time find patch which is responsible 
> for that. I think opengl rewriting should be done internaly, not 
> merging half of work into current CVS, because it broke so much apps.
>
> Mirek Slugen
>
> Jesse Allen napsal(a):
> > On 11/12/06, Joseph Garvin <k04jg02(a)kzoo.edu> wrote:
> > > Why would it be so difficult to have someone to pick a couple of common
> > > apps, like winzip, word, and warcraft3, and make sure they still
> > > function before every release?
> >
> > Here's a common problem. I tested Warcraft 3 with 0.9.25 from compile,
> > new wine prefix, game install, patch, start, battle.net all this
> > weekend and it worked fine. Not everyone receives the same experience.
> > I'm the maintainer so I do know when it regresses for me and usually I
> > fix it right then because I can. And I have been able to keep track
> > the git almost daily so problems with Warcraft 3 have actually
> > remained minimal (er I would say non-existant ... but). I cannot fix
> > other problems unless I receive proper reports. I have no idea what
> > Mirek's problem is and he definately has not reported it the proper
> > way.
> >
> > I do know of an open bug where there is a weird packaging/build
> > problem or nvidia+X.org 7.1 problem that prevents Warcraft 3 from
> > starting on ubuntu 6.10. So I actually downloaded it installed the
> > distro on my hard drive, which is why I did the above test with
> > Warcraft 3. So when I did all that just to research a problem, it
> > simply worked fine on my install of ubuntu. So I lack enough
> > information to progress on it. Could this be Mirek's problem --
> > possibly. Should we have held up 0.9.25 for a rather obscure problem?
> > Heck no. Even more reason, most people don't test tree snapshots, so
> > the only way we know of some problems is when we make a release, and
> > that's probably why we have releases every two weeks; so that Wine
> > gets widespread testing.
> >
> > Jesse

[Jesse Allen]

On 11/13/06, Mirek <thunder.m(a)czela.net> wrote:
> Hi, i am testing wine about every 3 days from current git. Warcraft 3
> cant run for me if i am using option "-opengl", with direct3d (default)
> it is working without any problems, but it is slower. If you want i can
> do testing every second day (after some changes in CVS) and report
> problems, but i cant every time find patch which is responsible for
> that. I think opengl rewriting should be done internaly, not merging
> half of work into current CVS, because it broke so much apps.
>
> Mirek Slugen

Again, let me reiterate, that OpenGL and Warcraft 3 works here. So I
have no idea what your problem is. You really ought to open a bug
number and post a log with WINEDEBUG=+wgl at least. Or point me to an
open bug number for it. And you should tell what video card and driver
you have.

Jesse

[Mirek]

Ok, some problems was caused by incompatibility betwen nVidia 9742 
drivers and wine, now i have again perfect working 9625 drivers. Here is 
updated list:

1. 3DMark 2003 - cant open setings menu - this has been fixed in last 2 
days in CVS
2. 3DMark 2003 - with GLSL, almost all working test are broken (bad 
graphic) - still there!
3. 3DMark 2003 - with ARB is about 25% slower -
4. HL2 Episode One - with GLSL some characters are black - still there!
5. NFS: MW - with ARB it is slower -
6. W3 - cannot run, because of Opengl init - nvidia 9742 issue, now it is ok
7. W3 FT - same as W3 - nvidia 9742 issue, now it is ok
8. nVidiaSDK - opengl demos in nVidia are not working anymore - still there
9. nVidiaSDK - some Direct3D demos are broken more than in release 
0.9.24 - still there
9. Prey - not working - nvidia 9742 issue, now it is ok
10. Flatout - with GLSL black cars and some items in game (i didnt test 
it before 2 days)

Mirek Slugen

Jesse Allen napsal(a):
> On 11/13/06, Mirek <thunder.m(a)czela.net> wrote:
> > Hi, i am testing wine about every 3 days from current git. Warcraft 3
> > cant run for me if i am using option "-opengl", with direct3d (default)
> > it is working without any problems, but it is slower. If you want i can
> > do testing every second day (after some changes in CVS) and report
> > problems, but i cant every time find patch which is responsible for
> > that. I think opengl rewriting should be done internaly, not merging
> > half of work into current CVS, because it broke so much apps.
> >
> > Mirek Slugen
>
> Again, let me reiterate, that OpenGL and Warcraft 3 works here. So I
> have no idea what your problem is. You really ought to open a bug
> number and post a log with WINEDEBUG=+wgl at least. Or point me to an
> open bug number for it. And you should tell what video card and driver
> you have.
>
> Jesse

[Jesse Allen]

On 11/13/06, Mirek <thunder.m(a)czela.net> wrote:
> Ok, some problems was caused by incompatibility betwen nVidia 9742
> drivers and wine, now i have again perfect working 9625 drivers. Here is
> updated list:

Then your bug number is 6637. Please continue the discussion about
this problem there.

http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6637

[Mirek]

Yes and no, some issues was because of drivers, but some wasnt, now i 
have old working drivers back and there are still about 35% apps that 
are working significant worst in wine 0.9.25, so it is not only problem 
of new drivers.

Mirek

Jesse Allen napsal(a):
> On 11/13/06, Mirek <thunder.m(a)czela.net> wrote:
> > Ok, some problems was caused by incompatibility betwen nVidia 9742
> > drivers and wine, now i have again perfect working 9625 drivers. Here is
> > updated list:
>
> Then your bug number is 6637. Please continue the discussion about
> this problem there.
>
> http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6637

[Jesse Allen]

On 11/13/06, Mirek <thunder.m(a)czela.net> wrote:
> Yes and no, some issues was because of drivers, but some wasnt, now i
> have old working drivers back and there are still about 35% apps that
> are working significant worst in wine 0.9.25, so it is not only problem
> of new drivers.
>
> Mirek

Please report your bugs through the proper methods. You can't just
dump a list of problems, provide little information, and expect all to
be addresssed at the same time and effort. I'm not going to address
your bugs here and I don't recognize all of them.

[Mirek]

Ok, i found patch which caused regression in 3DMark 2003, Flatout and 
some other games and apps, it is this patch:
kernel32: Better workaround for the lack of locale environment variables 
on MacOS from Alexandre Julliard

Mirek

Jesse Allen napsal(a):
> On 11/13/06, Mirek <thunder.m(a)czela.net> wrote:
> > Yes and no, some issues was because of drivers, but some wasnt, now i
> > have old working drivers back and there are still about 35% apps that
> > are working significant worst in wine 0.9.25, so it is not only problem
> > of new drivers.
> >
> > Mirek
>
> Please report your bugs through the proper methods. You can't just
> dump a list of problems, provide little information, and expect all to
> be addresssed at the same time and effort. I'm not going to address
> your bugs here and I don't recognize all of them.

[Dmitry Timoshkov]

"Mirek" <thunder.m(a)czela.net> wrote:
> Ok, i found patch which caused regression in 3DMark 2003, Flatout and 
> some other games and apps, it is this patch:
> kernel32: Better workaround for the lack of locale environment variables 
> on MacOS from Alexandre Julliard

It's already fixed in the current git.

-- 
Dmitry.

[Mirek]

:) No, in current git or cvs it is still not fixed, i tried it again 
before 10 minutes.

Mirek

Dmitry Timoshkov napsal(a):
> "Mirek" <thunder.m(a)czela.net> wrote:
> > Ok, i found patch which caused regression in 3DMark 2003, Flatout and 
> > some other games and apps, it is this patch:
> > kernel32: Better workaround for the lack of locale environment 
> > variables on MacOS from Alexandre Julliard
>
> It's already fixed in the current git.

[Kovács András]

Hi,

My regression test shows same as you. 
Dreamfall is broken because of this patch.

2006. november 14. 16.07 dátummal Mirek ezt írta:
> :) No, in current git or cvs it is still not fixed, i tried it again
>
> before 10 minutes.
>
> Mirek
>
> Dmitry Timoshkov napsal(a):
> > "Mirek" <thunder.m(a)czela.net> wrote:
> > > Ok, i found patch which caused regression in 3DMark 2003, Flatout and
> > > some other games and apps, it is this patch:
> > > kernel32: Better workaround for the lack of locale environment
> > > variables on MacOS from Alexandre Julliard
> >
> > It's already fixed in the current git.

-- 
------------------
andras
NetClub
Lamarr
csevego.net
andras(a)csevego.net
------------------

[Jonathan Ernst]

Le mardi 14 novembre 2006 à 16:07 +0100, Mirek a écrit :
> :) No, in current git or cvs it is still not fixed, i tried it again 
> before 10 minutes.
>
> Mirek
>
> Dmitry Timoshkov napsal(a):
> > "Mirek" <thunder.m(a)czela.net> wrote:
> > > Ok, i found patch which caused regression in 3DMark 2003, Flatout and 
> > > some other games and apps, it is this patch:
> > > kernel32: Better workaround for the lack of locale environment 
> > > variables on MacOS from Alexandre Julliard
> >
> > It's already fixed in the current git.

Again, please open a bug about this regression. wine-devel is not
bugzilla.

And _please_ stop top-posting (at least on bottom-posted threads), it
makes it really hard and uncomfortable to read.

Thanks,

Regression: "kernel32: Better workaround for the lack of locale environment variables on MacOS"

[Mirek]

Regression caused by this patch is still not fixed in current CVS.

[Phil Costin]

Mirek wrote:
> Hi, i just instaled wine 0.9.25 (i had 0.9.24) and it is full of
> regressions, why is this possible, why is not there someone who can test
> wine before it came out to new release?
>
> 1. 3DMark 2003 - cant open setigns menu
> 2. 3DMark 2003 - with GLSL, almost all working test are broken (bad
> graphic) 3. 3DMark 2003 - with ARB is about 25% slower
> 4. HL2 Episode One - Some characters are black
> 5. NFS: MW - with ARB it is slower
> 6. W3 - cannot run, because of Opengl init
> 7. W3 FT - same as W3
> 8. nVidiaSDK - opengl demos in nVidia are not working anymore
> 9. nVidiaSDK - some Direct3D demos are broken more than in release 0.9.24
> 9. Prey - not working
>
> This is pretty big list, almost half of my apps are not working, or
> working worst than before, it is sad.
>
> Mirek Slugen

Hi Mirek,

The best thing to do to help solve this is to fetch the current git version
of wine using the instructions at http://www.winehq.org/site/git

Then, use the tool git-bisect to mark 0.9.24 as the last know good build and
0.9.25 as the broken build. It will bisect the patches and enable you to
very quickly find the patch that caused the problem.

This page explains how to use it:
http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-bisect.html

Thanks!

Phil