Suggestion to the list maintainer
Hello. I have many subscriptions to different mailing list with my email-address and I'd appreciate a lot to be able to identify a message from this mailing list quickly by reading it's subject. Could you please add a subject prefix like [WINE-DEVEL] in the mailman preferences ? It's very easy to do, so maybe there is a good reason why you haven't done it yet... Thanks. François.
Hi François,
[...] identify a message from this mailing list quickly by reading it's subject. Could you please add a subject prefix like [WINE-DEVEL] [...]
I solve this by filtering messages To: wine-devel(a)winehq.org or CC: wine-devel(a)winehq.org into a separate folder. I see you're using SquirrelMail - does this help: http://its.uwrf.edu/support/squirrelmail/filter.php ? -- Richie Hindle richie(a)entrian.com
You can always filter the messages into a folder using the List-Id field in the message headers. It looks like this for the wine-devel list. List-Id: Wine Developer's List <wine-devel.winehq.org> kubrick(a)fgv6.net wrote:
I have many subscriptions to different mailing list with my email-address and I'd appreciate a lot to be able to identify a message from this mailing list quickly by reading it's subject. Could you please add a subject prefix like [WINE-DEVEL] in the mailman preferences ? It's very easy to do, so maybe there is a good reason why you haven't done it yet...
On Wednesday January 16 2008 13:25:38 kubrick(a)fgv6.net wrote:
Hello.
I have many subscriptions to different mailing list with my email-address and I'd appreciate a lot to be able to identify a message from this mailing list quickly by reading it's subject. Could you please add a subject prefix like [WINE-DEVEL] in the mailman preferences ? It's very easy to do, so maybe there is a good reason why you haven't done it yet...
Personally I detect messages for this list by searching for wine-devel(a)winehq.org in CC, From or To fields. That works perfectly. I use this method for all mailing lists and this always works. Adding a prefix is very ugly in my opinion and there is no good technical reason for that. Just set up your filters properly as I suggested and this will work without problems - for any mailing list.
Thanks for your answers. I already use such filters in my mail client, which sorts my mails when I launch it at home, a few times a week :) My problem was that the rest of the time (most of the time in fact) I read my mails for Squirrelmail, which can not do such sorting unless I have server-side filtering plugins installed. But looking deeper in the options I've just found that "Messages Highlighting" based on CC/TO is fitting my needs. So let's close this topic which is off-topic :) Sorry for the noise. Bye. François. PS : I do find Subject prefixes ugly too... Bu I hadn't found a more handy solution.
On Wednesday January 16 2008 13:25:38 kubrick(a)fgv6.net wrote:
Hello.
I have many subscriptions to different mailing list with my email-address and I'd appreciate a lot to be able to identify a message from this mailing list quickly by reading it's subject. Could you please add a subject prefix like [WINE-DEVEL] in the mailman preferences ? It's very easy to do, so maybe there is a good reason why you haven't done it yet...
Personally I detect messages for this list by searching for wine-devel(a)winehq.org in CC, From or To fields. That works perfectly. I use this method for all mailing lists and this always works. Adding a prefix is very ugly in my opinion and there is no good technical reason for that. Just set up your filters properly as I suggested and this will work without problems - for any mailing list.
PS : I do find Subject prefixes ugly too... Bu I hadn't found a more handy solution.
Don't use squirrelmail, or better yet - fix it. I suggest you replace squirrel with Zimbra, it's much better. I'm just a happy user.
Zimbra is commercial groupware suite. SquirrelMail is free webmail application. You are suggesting to replace whole user's email system with some proprietary locked product. -- Tomas
On Jan 18, 2008 1:06 PM, Tomas Kuliavas <tokul(a)users.sourceforge.net> wrote:
Zimbra is commercial groupware suite. SquirrelMail is free webmail application. You are suggesting to replace whole user's email system with some proprietary locked product.
There's an (at least in name) FOSS version of Zimbra... but eeew. I am tasked with the unfortunate duty of admining a machine running Zimbra and I can say it's not worth the trouble. Unless you like Java processes that gobble 2Gb of ram like cookies, that is. --tim
On Friday 18 January 2008, Tim Schmidt wrote:
On Jan 18, 2008 1:06 PM, Tomas Kuliavas <tokul(a)users.sourceforge.net> wrote:
Zimbra is commercial groupware suite. SquirrelMail is free webmail application. You are suggesting to replace whole user's email system with some proprietary locked product.
There's an (at least in name) FOSS version of Zimbra... but eeew. I am tasked with the unfortunate duty of admining a machine running Zimbra and I can say it's not worth the trouble. Unless you like Java processes that gobble 2Gb of ram like cookies, that is.
On my server, the mysqld which runs the backend for Zimbra is taking up 0.4GB virtual, while Tomcat takes 1.1GB virtual. So don't bash Java just yet, as the "old school" DB server is taking up 1/4th of the system's virtual memory. I don't really have much (or anything) in the way of problems with Zimbra. It uses the same ldap server for authentication as pam (ssh, etc) and samba, works pretty well with firefox, IE7 and IE6 with the service pack, and generally looks pleasant to the users. There's no other equally functional solution out there that would be any better. I did my searching. Scalix took ages for me just to figure out how to set it up (they think that out-of-the-box functionality is an option, and that misleading or outright wrong documentation is OK), and besides those two there's really nothing else for a mostly OSS shop to deploy. Having run squirrel for a 5+ years, and some of the most annoying bugs remaining unfixed (say support for national characters that actually works in real life), I just gave up. Cheers, Kuba
On Friday 18 January 2008, Tomas Kuliavas wrote:
PS : I do find Subject prefixes ugly too... Bu I hadn't found a more handy solution.
Don't use squirrelmail, or better yet - fix it. I suggest you replace squirrel with Zimbra, it's much better. I'm just a happy user.
Zimbra is commercial groupware suite. SquirrelMail is free webmail application. You are suggesting to replace whole user's email system with some proprietary locked product.
It works pretty well, is free as in beer, and the only "closed" parts are its Java core. A lot of other stuff, such as the JavaScript framework, and reused OSS project, are still open-source. I have been using it for a year and I really beats everything else out the hands down. IMHO of course. Cheers, Kuba
Sorry to other list readers about offtopic rant, but I can't stand when people attack software that I like.
PS : I do find Subject prefixes ugly too... Bu I hadn't found a more handy solution.
Don't use squirrelmail, or better yet - fix it. I suggest you replace squirrel with Zimbra, it's much better. I'm just a happy user.
Zimbra is commercial groupware suite. SquirrelMail is free webmail application. You are suggesting to replace whole user's email system with some proprietary locked product.
It works pretty well, is free as in beer, and the only "closed" parts are its Java core. A lot of other stuff, such as the JavaScript framework, and reused OSS project, are still open-source.
Main Zimbra's product is not Open Source Edition. Zimbra sells its products on annual/monthly subscription per seat basis. Outlook, iSync, Blackberry, mobile connectors. Clustering. Backups. These are not open. Do Zimbra admins know how their email setup works or just click on provided buttons? Can they change setup from default values without breaking it completely? Do admins have option to revert their changes, if something breaks? What happens if you deviate from standard OpenSource Edition setup and see cryptic Java errors in your logs or Zimbra web pages.
I have been using it for a year and I really beats everything else out the hands down. IMHO of course.
I've been using SquirrelMail for more than 6 years. You are comparing apples to oranges. Zimbra is not email client. It has email client as part of whole server package. Zimbra's webmail client uses AJAX, has better integration with email system (it is designed for Zimbra) and it can't be compared with SquirrelMail. SquirrelMail is email system agnostic. It works with any email setup that has good IMAP4rev1 service. SquirrelMail has bundled client side filtering support, but use of server side filtering with SquirrelMail is recommended. Client side filtering is slow, because SquirrelMail is webmail client written in PHP without any direct access to existing email setup. Zimbra can't replace SquirrelMail, because it also replaces IMAP, SMTP and POP services and other parts of email setup. Zimbra adds features that are not needed for standard email client. Suggestion to tag subject of mailing list emails is a good one. Mailman can do that. I think some email clients (Outlook Express) can't filter emails by custom headers. from other email
Having run squirrel for a 5+ years, and some of the most annoying bugs remaining unfixed (say support for national characters that actually works in real life)
Prove your claims. When these issues are related to broken MIME produced by other software? When they are related to the fact that translations are locked on charsets specific to selected language/country? When they are related to big CJK charset tables that are hard to implement in pure PHP? SquirrelMail does not use utf-8 for historical reasons, but you can always change it to utf-8 if you want. Charset support was improved since 1.4.4. It was 3-4 years ago. I am former SquirrelMail i18n developer and I suspect that you are spreading FUD about SquirrelMail. SquirrelMail has issues, but you and others are free to fix them. If Zimbra has issues, you will have to wait until Yahoo fixes it. -- Tomas
On Saturday 19 January 2008, Tomas Kuliavas wrote:
Sorry to other list readers about offtopic rant, but I can't stand when people attack software that I like.
I don't think what I said amounts to an attack. I've reported what works for me, and one of the problems I had with squirrelmail.
Zimbra is commercial groupware suite. SquirrelMail is free webmail application. You are suggesting to replace whole user's email system with some proprietary locked product.
It works pretty well, is free as in beer, and the only "closed" parts are its Java core. A lot of other stuff, such as the JavaScript framework, and reused OSS project, are still open-source.
Main Zimbra's product is not Open Source Edition. Zimbra sells its products on annual/monthly subscription per seat basis.
Outlook, iSync, Blackberry, mobile connectors. Clustering. Backups. These are not open.
Do Zimbra admins know how their email setup works or just click on provided buttons? Can they change setup from default values without breaking it completely? Do admins have option to revert their changes, if something breaks? What happens if you deviate from standard OpenSource Edition setup and see cryptic Java errors in your logs or Zimbra web pages.
Considering that Zimbra builds on a big bunch of OSS technologies, I can't really imagine it'd be any different if say squirrelmail provided similar functionality. I don't think that squirrelmail admins usually know much more about "how it works" than Zimbra admins do. In fact, with squirrel I may well posit they know next to nothing about squirrelmail, but they do know much about their underlying deployment which interfaces via imap. All of this knowledge can translate to Zimbra, which happily uses postfix, clamav, mysql etc.
I have been using it for a year and I really beats everything else out the hands down. IMHO of course.
I've been using SquirrelMail for more than 6 years.
You are comparing apples to oranges. Zimbra is not email client. It has email client as part of whole server package. Zimbra's webmail client uses AJAX, has better integration with email system (it is designed for Zimbra) and it can't be compared with SquirrelMail.
Well, in the end it's about what users need. I understand the technical and free software argument, but few people will demand email and nothing else these days. Certainly business users need way more than that, so for better adoption in an institutional setting, squirrel would have to include features beyond email.
Zimbra can't replace SquirrelMail, because it also replaces IMAP, SMTP and POP services and other parts of email setup. Zimbra adds features that are not needed for standard email client.
I've been testing a Zimbra deployment that uses CentOS-provided functionality for everything that Zimbra normally carried around, and it works. Not out of the box, but it definitely does. The deal is that unless the "extra" features are integrated into the client, they may as well not exist. Calendars and address lists have been part of standard client functionality everywhere else for years now (no, I don't use Outlook) - considering them "not needed in a standard email client" is simply wishing that water flew uphill. If the users want those, one can't tell them "suck it up".
Having run squirrel for a 5+ years, and some of the most annoying bugs remaining unfixed (say support for national characters that actually works in real life)
Prove your claims. When these issues are related to broken MIME produced by other software?
Nope. For me, Squirrel can not parse its own emails with Latin-2 characters in them. Neither can anything else parse them. It's been like that for years, across multiple redeployments, starting at least with RH9. Unless RedHat had kept something seriously messed up in their distro over many years, I think it's Squirrel's problem.
I am former SquirrelMail i18n developer and I suspect that you are spreading FUD about SquirrelMail. SquirrelMail has issues, but you and others are free to fix them. If Zimbra has issues, you will have to wait until Yahoo fixes it.
I can only report on what works and what doesn't. I have limited time that I can allocate to fixing bugs in software that I'm not working on myself. Cheers, Kuba
On Jan 21, 2008 2:44 PM, Kuba Ober <kuba(a)mareimbrium.org> wrote:
On Saturday 19 January 2008, Tomas Kuliavas wrote:
Sorry to other list readers about offtopic rant, but I can't stand when people attack software that I like.
I don't think what I said amounts to an attack. I've reported what works for me, and one of the problems I had with squirrelmail.
Zimbra is commercial groupware suite. SquirrelMail is free webmail application. You are suggesting to replace whole user's email system with some proprietary locked product.
It works pretty well, is free as in beer, and the only "closed" parts are its Java core. A lot of other stuff, such as the JavaScript framework, and reused OSS project, are still open-source.
Main Zimbra's product is not Open Source Edition. Zimbra sells its products on annual/monthly subscription per seat basis.
Outlook, iSync, Blackberry, mobile connectors. Clustering. Backups. These are not open.
Do Zimbra admins know how their email setup works or just click on provided buttons? Can they change setup from default values without breaking it completely? Do admins have option to revert their changes, if something breaks? What happens if you deviate from standard OpenSource Edition setup and see cryptic Java errors in your logs or Zimbra web pages.
Considering that Zimbra builds on a big bunch of OSS technologies, I can't really imagine it'd be any different if say squirrelmail provided similar functionality. I don't think that squirrelmail admins usually know much more about "how it works" than Zimbra admins do. In fact, with squirrel I may well posit they know next to nothing about squirrelmail, but they do know much about their underlying deployment which interfaces via imap. All of this knowledge can translate to Zimbra, which happily uses postfix, clamav, mysql etc.
I have been using it for a year and I really beats everything else out the hands down. IMHO of course.
I've been using SquirrelMail for more than 6 years.
You are comparing apples to oranges. Zimbra is not email client. It has email client as part of whole server package. Zimbra's webmail client uses AJAX, has better integration with email system (it is designed for Zimbra) and it can't be compared with SquirrelMail.
Well, in the end it's about what users need. I understand the technical and free software argument, but few people will demand email and nothing else these days. Certainly business users need way more than that, so for better adoption in an institutional setting, squirrel would have to include features beyond email.
Zimbra can't replace SquirrelMail, because it also replaces IMAP, SMTP and POP services and other parts of email setup. Zimbra adds features that are not needed for standard email client.
I've been testing a Zimbra deployment that uses CentOS-provided functionality for everything that Zimbra normally carried around, and it works. Not out of the box, but it definitely does.
The deal is that unless the "extra" features are integrated into the client, they may as well not exist. Calendars and address lists have been part of standard client functionality everywhere else for years now (no, I don't use Outlook) - considering them "not needed in a standard email client" is simply wishing that water flew uphill. If the users want those, one can't tell them "suck it up".
Having run squirrel for a 5+ years, and some of the most annoying bugs remaining unfixed (say support for national characters that actually works in real life)
Prove your claims. When these issues are related to broken MIME produced by other software?
Nope. For me, Squirrel can not parse its own emails with Latin-2 characters in them. Neither can anything else parse them. It's been like that for years, across multiple redeployments, starting at least with RH9. Unless RedHat had kept something seriously messed up in their distro over many years, I think it's Squirrel's problem.
I am former SquirrelMail i18n developer and I suspect that you are spreading FUD about SquirrelMail. SquirrelMail has issues, but you and others are free to fix them. If Zimbra has issues, you will have to wait until Yahoo fixes it.
I can only report on what works and what doesn't. I have limited time that I can allocate to fixing bugs in software that I'm not working on myself.
Please take this discussion OFF LIST. This has nothing to do with wine development. -- James Hawkins
On Wednesday 16 January 2008, kubrick(a)fgv6.net wrote:
Hello.
I have many subscriptions to different mailing list with my email-address and I'd appreciate a lot to be able to identify a message from this mailing list quickly by reading it's subject. Could you please add a subject prefix like [WINE-DEVEL] in the mailman preferences ? It's very easy to do, so maybe there is a good reason why you haven't done it yet...
Thanks. François.
!DSPAM:478e0614252561039011321!
On Wednesday 16 January 2008, kubrick(a)fgv6.net wrote:
Hello.
I have many subscriptions to different mailing list with my email-address and I'd appreciate a lot to be able to identify a message from this mailing list quickly by reading it's subject. Could you please add a subject prefix like [WINE-DEVEL] in the mailman preferences ? It's very easy to do, so maybe there is a good reason why you haven't done it yet...
Just filter on List-Id: Wine Developer's List <wine-devel.winehq.org> Cheers, Kuba
participants (8)
-
James Hawkins -
Jeremy Newman -
Kuba Ober -
kubrick＠fgv6.net -
L. Rahyen -
Richie Hindle -
Tim Schmidt -
Tomas Kuliavas