Hi, The code freeze for Wine-1.2 has started and we are now in a weekly release candidate cycle. This is an ideal moment for translation work. The current translations status page http://source.winehq.org/transl/index.php shows four (4) languages at a 100%. Please help us have more fully translated languages for Wine-1.2. Also fixing the errors in the translations (21 languages affected) would be greatly appreciated. Most translators are not programmers and are probably intimidated by Wine's translation system. If you are comfortable editing resource file than please go ahead, create patches and sent them to wine-patches. The wiki-page http://wiki.winehq.org/Translating gives some more background information if needed. If you like to help out Wine but don't want to touch any of these resource files we can help you out. Please sent us an email with the language you'd like to translate Wine into and we will sent you the more familiar po files. These files show all the translatable strings from a resource file but in a less intriguing format. Once translated, you can sent these files back and we will turn them into the proper resource files. 'We' for now are Michael Stefaniuc and Paul Vriens but I guess others will chime in if needed. -- Cheers, Paul.
On 05/27/2010 12:52 PM, Paul Vriens wrote:
Hi,
The code freeze for Wine-1.2 has started and we are now in a weekly release candidate cycle. This is an ideal moment for translation work.
The current translations status page http://source.winehq.org/transl/index.php shows four (4) languages at a 100%. Please help us have more fully translated languages for Wine-1.2. Also fixing the errors in the translations (21 languages affected) would be greatly appreciated.
Most translators are not programmers and are probably intimidated by Wine's translation system.
If you are comfortable editing resource file than please go ahead, create patches and sent them to wine-patches. The wiki-page http://wiki.winehq.org/Translating gives some more background information if needed.
If you like to help out Wine but don't want to touch any of these resource files we can help you out. Please sent us an email with the language you'd like to translate Wine into and we will sent you the more familiar po files. These files show all the translatable strings from a resource file but in a less intriguing format. Once translated, you can sent these files back and we will turn them into the proper resource files.
'We' for now are Michael Stefaniuc and Paul Vriens but I guess others will chime in if needed.
Hi, I've created a simple wiki page (http://wiki.winehq.org/Wine1.2Translations) to keep track of who is doing translation work for Wine 1.2 to avoid any duplicate efforts. Please add yourself to this page if you don't need our help in translating Wine. If you do need our help let me know and I'll add your name to the wiki page. -- Cheers, Paul.
On Thu, 2010-05-27 at 17:46 +0200, Paul Vriens wrote:
On 05/27/2010 12:52 PM, Paul Vriens wrote:
The code freeze for Wine-1.2 has started and we are now in a weekly release candidate cycle. This is an ideal moment for translation work.
I'm a native speaker of Portuguese and would be very interested in contributing to the awesome WINE project. I've also extensive experience in C and C++ programming but am not sure if you guys are in need of devs at the moment -- would appreciate comments on this. As for completing the Portuguese translation (which at the moment stands at ~97% complete) I'd more than willing to jump in. <snip>
I've created a simple wiki page (http://wiki.winehq.org/Wine1.2Translations) to keep track of who is doing translation work for Wine 1.2 to avoid any duplicate efforts.
Please add yourself to this page if you don't need our help in translating Wine.
Please excuse my ignore but I've never participated in FOSS projects before. I've just created a new account on winehq.org but I haven't yet edited the page referenced above and added myself as a (Portuguese) translator as, since I'm a new user, I don't know if there is someone I need to contact first. Should I just go ahead and add myself or do I need to contact someone first? -- Miguel Guedes
On 05/27/2010 06:23 PM, belnac wrote:
On Thu, 2010-05-27 at 17:46 +0200, Paul Vriens wrote:
On 05/27/2010 12:52 PM, Paul Vriens wrote:
The code freeze for Wine-1.2 has started and we are now in a weekly release candidate cycle. This is an ideal moment for translation work.
I'm a native speaker of Portuguese and would be very interested in contributing to the awesome WINE project. I've also extensive experience in C and C++ programming but am not sure if you guys are in need of devs at the moment -- would appreciate comments on this. As for completing the Portuguese translation (which at the moment stands at ~97% complete) I'd more than willing to jump in.
You are talking about Portuguese (Portuguese) and not (Brazil) I guess? Will you be editing resource files or do you need the mentioned po files?
<snip>
I've created a simple wiki page (http://wiki.winehq.org/Wine1.2Translations) to keep track of who is doing translation work for Wine 1.2 to avoid any duplicate efforts.
Please add yourself to this page if you don't need our help in translating Wine.
Please excuse my ignore but I've never participated in FOSS projects before. I've just created a new account on winehq.org but I haven't yet edited the page referenced above and added myself as a (Portuguese) translator as, since I'm a new user, I don't know if there is someone I need to contact first.
Should I just go ahead and add myself or do I need to contact someone first?
If you have an account on wiki.winehq.org you should be able to add yourself to the page. I'll probably extend the table a bit to also include the variants of a language and the LANG (or whatever is needed) settings. -- Cheers, Paul.
i'm adding myself to the list atm. i'll finish the portuguese portugal translations next week. if you wish to finish that work until then belnac please do so, i'm quite busy these days. 2010/5/27 Paul Vriens <paul.vriens.wine(a)gmail.com>:
On 05/27/2010 06:23 PM, belnac wrote:
On Thu, 2010-05-27 at 17:46 +0200, Paul Vriens wrote:
On 05/27/2010 12:52 PM, Paul Vriens wrote:
The code freeze for Wine-1.2 has started and we are now in a weekly release candidate cycle. This is an ideal moment for translation work.
I'm a native speaker of Portuguese and would be very interested in contributing to the awesome WINE project. I've also extensive experience in C and C++ programming but am not sure if you guys are in need of devs at the moment -- would appreciate comments on this. As for completing the Portuguese translation (which at the moment stands at ~97% complete) I'd more than willing to jump in.
You are talking about Portuguese (Portuguese) and not (Brazil) I guess? Will you be editing resource files or do you need the mentioned po files?
<snip>
I've created a simple wiki page (http://wiki.winehq.org/Wine1.2Translations) to keep track of who is doing translation work for Wine 1.2 to avoid any duplicate efforts.
Please add yourself to this page if you don't need our help in translating Wine.
Please excuse my ignore but I've never participated in FOSS projects before. I've just created a new account on winehq.org but I haven't yet edited the page referenced above and added myself as a (Portuguese) translator as, since I'm a new user, I don't know if there is someone I need to contact first.
Should I just go ahead and add myself or do I need to contact someone first?
If you have an account on wiki.winehq.org you should be able to add yourself to the page. I'll probably extend the table a bit to also include the variants of a language and the LANG (or whatever is needed) settings.
-- Cheers,
Paul.
On Thu, 2010-05-27 at 18:37 +0100, Ricardo Filipe wrote:
i'm adding myself to the list atm. i'll finish the portuguese portugal translations next week.
if you wish to finish that work until then belnac please do so, i'm quite busy these days.
Nah, it's cool. If you're willing to finish the translations (a handful of resource strings only, all non-crucial in nature, IIRC) then I'll just stand aside. <snip>
On Thu, 2010-05-27 at 17:46 +0200, Paul Vriens wrote: You are talking about Portuguese (Portuguese) and not (Brazil) I guess? Will you be editing resource files or do you need the mentioned po files?
That's correct, Paul -- PT Portuguese.
If you have an account on wiki.winehq.org you should be able to add yourself to the page. I'll probably extend the table a bit to also include the variants of a language and the LANG (or whatever is needed) settings.
What about dev work, is any available? Thanks all. Regards, -- Miguel Guedes
On 05/27/2010 07:48 PM, belnac wrote:
What about dev work, is any available?
Did you ever have a look at our bugzilla ;) There is plenty of stuff to do besides fixing bugs of course. What you want to do depends on many things like skills, interest, the amount of time you have etc.. Remember that we are in code freeze now so looking at bugs and trying to figure out what could be wrong or even providing information that could lead to fixing the bugs is welcome. -- Cheers, Paul.
On Thu, 2010-05-27 at 20:00 +0200, Paul Vriens wrote:
On 05/27/2010 07:48 PM, belnac wrote:
What about dev work, is any available?
Did you ever have a look at our bugzilla ;)
There is plenty of stuff to do besides fixing bugs of course. What you want to do depends on many things like skills, interest, the amount of time you have etc..
Remember that we are in code freeze now so looking at bugs and trying to figure out what could be wrong or even providing information that could lead to fixing the bugs is welcome.
Understood. Thanks for the heads up; will look into it. -- Miguel Guedes
hey paul, i believe i can get to them this weekend as i said. 2010/6/9 Paul Vriens <paul.vriens.wine(a)gmail.com>:
On 05/27/2010 07:37 PM, Ricardo Filipe wrote:
i'm adding myself to the list atm. i'll finish the portuguese portugal translations next week.
Hi Ricardo,
Will you be able to do the translations or should we let Miguel have a go?
-- Cheers,
Paul.
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 12:52, Paul Vriens <paul.vriens.wine(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
The code freeze for Wine-1.2 has started and we are now in a weekly release candidate cycle. This is an ideal moment for translation work.
The current translations status page http://source.winehq.org/transl/index.php shows four (4) languages at a 100%. Please help us have more fully translated languages for Wine-1.2. Also fixing the errors in the translations (21 languages affected) would be greatly appreciated.
Regarding the translation percentage in http://source.winehq.org/transl/index.php, especially the pedantic mode, is it possible to mark some of the warning as non valid (e.g. when the translation is the same than the English version, which sometimes occurs in French [e.g. "OK"])? Marking resource files for these occurrences is probably non desirable, but what about something like a "Mark as invalid" button on warnings in the web interface (with probably some kind of "language-specific-warning-exclusion-system"). Is that feasible? This would allow an easier review of the warnings Pedantic mode gives. <...>
--- Cheers,
Paul.
Frédéric
Helo Frédéric Frédéric Delanoy wrote:
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 12:52, Paul Vriens <paul.vriens.wine(a)gmail.com> wrote:
The code freeze for Wine-1.2 has started and we are now in a weekly release candidate cycle. This is an ideal moment for translation work.
The current translations status page http://source.winehq.org/transl/index.php shows four (4) languages at a 100%. Please help us have more fully translated languages for Wine-1.2. Also fixing the errors in the translations (21 languages affected) would be greatly appreciated.
Regarding the translation percentage in http://source.winehq.org/transl/index.php, especially the pedantic mode, is it possible to mark some of the warning as non valid (e.g. when the translation is the same than the English version, which sometimes occurs in French [e.g. "OK"])?
Marking resource files for these occurrences is probably non desirable, but what about something like a "Mark as invalid" button on warnings in the web interface (with probably some kind of "language-specific-warning-exclusion-system").
Is that feasible? Not really. The translation statistics page is generated every time afresh from the Wine source code; it doesn't keep state. It would be a significant amount of work to do that. Probably more than fixing it The Right Way(TM) aka making Wine use PO files. With PO files there isn't the need to copy untranslated strings just to not break a resource. And with that the pedantic mode becomes less useful and we can use other existing PO based "verify translation" tools, e.g. http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/toolkit/checking_for_inconsistencies So if you would have translated "OK" to "OK" but also some of them to "Oui" you would get notified about that.
This would allow an easier review of the warnings Pedantic mode gives. <...>
bye michael
On 05/28/2010 11:58 AM, Michael Stefaniuc wrote:
Helo Frédéric
Frédéric Delanoy wrote:
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 12:52, Paul Vriens<paul.vriens.wine(a)gmail.com> wrote:
The code freeze for Wine-1.2 has started and we are now in a weekly release candidate cycle. This is an ideal moment for translation work.
The current translations status page http://source.winehq.org/transl/index.php shows four (4) languages at a 100%. Please help us have more fully translated languages for Wine-1.2. Also fixing the errors in the translations (21 languages affected) would be greatly appreciated.
Regarding the translation percentage in http://source.winehq.org/transl/index.php, especially the pedantic mode, is it possible to mark some of the warning as non valid (e.g. when the translation is the same than the English version, which sometimes occurs in French [e.g. "OK"])?
Marking will be an issue for the reason Michael states below. I tried to do it in the code but even that is not trivial and probably requires hard coded lists.
Marking resource files for these occurrences is probably non desirable, but what about something like a "Mark as invalid" button on warnings in the web interface (with probably some kind of "language-specific-warning-exclusion-system").
Is that feasible?
Not really. The translation statistics page is generated every time afresh from the Wine source code; it doesn't keep state. It would be a significant amount of work to do that. Probably more than fixing it The Right Way(TM) aka making Wine use PO files. With PO files there isn't the need to copy untranslated strings just to not break a resource. And with that the pedantic mode becomes less useful and we can use other existing PO based "verify translation" tools, e.g. http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/toolkit/checking_for_inconsistencies So if you would have translated "OK" to "OK" but also some of them to "Oui" you would get notified about that.
But what about the different sized controls for some languages? I agree though that po files are more accessible to a wider audience I totally agree (and have already talked to Francois a few times about this) that we need a nicer/better way for translators to help us out. Maybe a nice item for the next WineConf? -- Cheers, Paul.
I totally agree (and have already talked to Francois a few times about this) that we need a nicer/better way for translators to help us out.
Could it be integrated in http://source.winehq.org/transl/index.php? Having some sort of edit button there allowing people to translate it without having to send patches?
2010/5/28 Paul Vriens <paul.vriens.wine(a)gmail.com>:
On 05/28/2010 11:58 AM, Michael Stefaniuc wrote:
Helo Frédéric
Frédéric Delanoy wrote:
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 12:52, Paul Vriens<paul.vriens.wine(a)gmail.com> wrote:
The code freeze for Wine-1.2 has started and we are now in a weekly release candidate cycle. This is an ideal moment for translation work.
<...> Marking resource files for these occurrences is probably non desirable, but what about something like a "Mark as invalid" button on warnings in the web interface (with probably some kind of "language-specific-warning-exclusion-system").
Is that feasible?
Not really. The translation statistics page is generated every time afresh from the Wine source code; it doesn't keep state. It would be a significant amount of work to do that. Probably more than fixing it The Right Way(TM) aka making Wine use PO files. With PO files there isn't the need to copy untranslated strings just to not break a resource. <...>
But what about the different sized controls for some languages? I agree though that po files are more accessible to a wider audience
I totally agree (and have already talked to Francois a few times about this) that we need a nicer/better way for translators to help us out.
Well, MENUs and STRINGTABLEs don't specify any size, so should be OK to "extract" in a po file (even if a mechanism po -> rc [maybe with macro/placeholders would have to be created). Of course, for dialog strings, size specifications matters a lot, but extracting them as well in a po file, and specifying the size in the rc file would probably a pain to maintain. OTOH, keeping them in the rc allows easier modifications (e.g. with tools like ResHacker). Would a mixed approach make sense, or simply add unneeded complexity? Would it allow (at least partial) more translators to join? Debatable. Other potential pitfall: the menu accelerators. You have to ensure that no two entries use the same accelerator in the same menu/submenu. And translators might wonder wtf those '&' stand for.
Maybe a nice item for the next WineConf?
-- Cheers,
Paul.
My 2 ¢ Frédéric
On Fri, 2010-05-28 at 21:32 +0200, Paul Vriens wrote:
On 05/28/2010 11:58 AM, Michael Stefaniuc wrote:
Not really. The translation statistics page is generated every time afresh from the Wine source code; it doesn't keep state. It would be a significant amount of work to do that. Probably more than fixing it The Right Way(TM) aka making Wine use PO files. With PO files there isn't the need to copy untranslated strings just to not break a resource. And with that the pedantic mode becomes less useful and we can use other existing PO based "verify translation" tools, e.g. http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/toolkit/checking_for_inconsistencies So if you would have translated "OK" to "OK" but also some of them to "Oui" you would get notified about that.
But what about the different sized controls for some languages? I agree though that po files are more accessible to a wider audience
I thought about that a bit with rc2po. I never implemented it but I would use user comments to allow configuration settings to be changed. E.g. # @RC-Size: 15, 110, 230, 55 msgid "Save" msgstr "Stoor" So anything that would need to be changed could be put in those comments and edited by a translator. But if Wine was to move to PO files the right approach might be to build RC files from PO files instead of the current approach. -- Dwayne Bailey Associate Research Director +27 12 460 1095 (w) Translate.org.za ANLoc +27 83 443 7114 (c) Recent blog posts: * Localisation: How we guess the target translation language in Virtaal http://www.translate.org.za/blogs/dwayne/en/content/localisation-how-we-gues... * Continuous integration, can it work for software localisation? * Translate Toolkit - a powerful localisation toolkit Firefox web browser in Afrikaans - http://af.www.mozilla.com/af/ African Network for Localisation (ANLoc) - http://africanlocalisation.net/
Dwayne Bailey wrote:
On Fri, 2010-05-28 at 21:32 +0200, Paul Vriens wrote:
On 05/28/2010 11:58 AM, Michael Stefaniuc wrote:
Not really. The translation statistics page is generated every time afresh from the Wine source code; it doesn't keep state. It would be a significant amount of work to do that. Probably more than fixing it The Right Way(TM) aka making Wine use PO files. With PO files there isn't the need to copy untranslated strings just to not break a resource. And with that the pedantic mode becomes less useful and we can use other existing PO based "verify translation" tools, e.g. http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/toolkit/checking_for_inconsistencies So if you would have translated "OK" to "OK" but also some of them to "Oui" you would get notified about that. But what about the different sized controls for some languages? I agree though that po files are more accessible to a wider audience
I thought about that a bit with rc2po. I never implemented it but I would use user comments to allow configuration settings to be changed.
E.g.
# @RC-Size: 15, 110, 230, 55 msgid "Save" msgstr "Stoor"
So anything that would need to be changed could be put in those comments and edited by a translator.
But if Wine was to move to PO files the right approach might be to build RC files from PO files instead of the current approach. Alexandre actually has this on his extended todo list when he has too much spare time. The idea is to have wrc directly read the PO files without the intermediate rc files. Ideally wrc should be able to calculate the needed resource size too; though no clue how much effort that would be.
bye michael
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 13:20, Michael Stefaniuc <mstefani(a)redhat.com> wrote:
Ideally wrc should be able to calculate the needed resource size too; though no clue how much effort that would be.
michael
Well auto-calculating resource size might be no problematic: think - multi-line strings might need to be split at different places - sometimes other dialog elements may have to be moved as well (Fr sentences are generally somewhat/much longer than En equivalents for instance) Additionally, tools like ResHacker (to easily visually alter size/strings/...) might be unusable without some sort of preprocessing if all resources are migrated to a po file. Frédéric
Frédéric Delanoy wrote:
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 13:20, Michael Stefaniuc <mstefani(a)redhat.com> wrote:
Ideally wrc should be able to calculate the needed resource size too; though no clue how much effort that would be.
michael
Well auto-calculating resource size might be no problematic: think - multi-line strings might need to be split at different places - sometimes other dialog elements may have to be moved as well (Fr sentences are generally somewhat/much longer than En equivalents for instance) Automatic resource size calculation doesn't precludes adding the possibility of a manual override.
Additionally, tools like ResHacker (to easily visually alter size/strings/...) might be unusable without some sort of preprocessing if all resources are migrated to a po file. ResHacker will work like always. wrc will still generate .res files; ideally barring any fixes the SHA1 of the generated res files will be the same before and after the move to PO files.
bye michael
On Thu, 2010-05-27 at 12:52 +0200, Paul Vriens wrote: <snip>
If you like to help out Wine but don't want to touch any of these resource files we can help you out. Please sent us an email with the language you'd like to translate Wine into and we will sent you the more familiar po files. These files show all the translatable strings from a resource file but in a less intriguing format. Once translated, you can sent these files back and we will turn them into the proper resource files.
'We' for now are Michael Stefaniuc and Paul Vriens but I guess others will chime in if needed.
Could I offer to help an admin setup a Pootle server on Wine servers for those who want/need to translate in PO format? In terms of PO format are you using rc2po from the Translate Toolkit? -- Dwayne Bailey Associate Research Director +27 12 460 1095 (w) Translate.org.za ANLoc +27 83 443 7114 (c) Recent blog posts: * Localisation: How we guess the target translation language in Virtaal http://www.translate.org.za/blogs/dwayne/en/content/localisation-how-we-gues... * Continuous integration, can it work for software localisation? * Translate Toolkit - a powerful localisation toolkit Firefox web browser in Afrikaans - http://af.www.mozilla.com/af/ African Network for Localisation (ANLoc) - http://africanlocalisation.net/
Dwayne Bailey wrote:
On Thu, 2010-05-27 at 12:52 +0200, Paul Vriens wrote:
<snip>
If you like to help out Wine but don't want to touch any of these resource files we can help you out. Please sent us an email with the language you'd like to translate Wine into and we will sent you the more familiar po files. These files show all the translatable strings from a resource file but in a less intriguing format. Once translated, you can sent these files back and we will turn them into the proper resource files.
'We' for now are Michael Stefaniuc and Paul Vriens but I guess others will chime in if needed.
Could I offer to help an admin setup a Pootle server on Wine servers for those who want/need to translate in PO format? Paul and I didn't plan to go that far yet but why not... Jeremy Newman is the winehq.org admin but he is chronically out of spare time.
In terms of PO format are you using rc2po from the Translate Toolkit? Yes. rc2po seems to work just fine. Though there are problems with po2rc but I didn't have yet time to look at fixing them.
thanks bye michael
On Mon, 2010-05-31 at 13:13 +0200, Michael Stefaniuc wrote:
Dwayne Bailey wrote:
On Thu, 2010-05-27 at 12:52 +0200, Paul Vriens wrote:
<snip>
If you like to help out Wine but don't want to touch any of these resource files we can help you out. Please sent us an email with the language you'd like to translate Wine into and we will sent you the more familiar po files. These files show all the translatable strings from a resource file but in a less intriguing format. Once translated, you can sent these files back and we will turn them into the proper resource files.
'We' for now are Michael Stefaniuc and Paul Vriens but I guess others will chime in if needed.
Could I offer to help an admin setup a Pootle server on Wine servers for those who want/need to translate in PO format? Paul and I didn't plan to go that far yet but why not... Jeremy Newman is the winehq.org admin but he is chronically out of spare time.
Jeremy, how can I help? Do you want to exchange some emails and we can see if we can build a plan for implementation of Pootle on winehq.org?
In terms of PO format are you using rc2po from the Translate Toolkit? Yes. rc2po seems to work just fine. Though there are problems with po2rc but I didn't have yet time to look at fixing them.
Glad to see its useful and looking forward to patches ;) -- Dwayne Bailey Associate Research Director +27 12 460 1095 (w) Translate.org.za ANLoc +27 83 443 7114 (c) Recent blog posts: * Localisation: How we guess the target translation language in Virtaal http://www.translate.org.za/blogs/dwayne/en/content/localisation-how-we-gues... * Continuous integration, can it work for software localisation? * Translate Toolkit - a powerful localisation toolkit Firefox web browser in Afrikaans - http://af.www.mozilla.com/af/ African Network for Localisation (ANLoc) - http://africanlocalisation.net/
participants (7)
-
belnac -
Dwayne Bailey -
Frédéric Delanoy -
Matijn Woudt -
Michael Stefaniuc -
Paul Vriens -
Ricardo Filipe