I got email from a friend who complained how hard it was to install wine. Turns out he assumed he had to go to winehq.org and follow the download instructions there, when all he needed to do was do Applications / Add/Remove and pick Wine. Can we add in a line at the top saying "Stable version 1.0.1 of Wine can usually be installed just like any other Linux application using your package manager (e.g. in Ubuntu, do Applications / Add/Remove, select Wine, and click Apply Changes). If that doesn't work, or if you need a newer version of Wine, here's how to get it." ? I know, that clutters things even more. Suggestions for achieving the same thing more concisely would be welcome. I think we should also move the text "This endorsement is the primary recognition that CodeWeavers has requested in exchange for hosting the Wine web site." to the bottom of the page, and change it to read "Thanks to CodeWeavers for hosting WineHQ.org". - Dan
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 11:24 AM, Dan Kegel <dank(a)kegel.com> wrote:
I got email from a friend who complained how hard it was to install wine. Turns out he assumed he had to go to winehq.org and follow the download instructions there, when all he needed to do was do Applications / Add/Remove and pick Wine.
Can we add in a line at the top saying "Stable version 1.0.1 of Wine can usually be installed just like any other Linux application using your package manager (e.g. in Ubuntu, do Applications / Add/Remove, select Wine, and click Apply Changes).
Nitpick, but instead of 'Linux', use 'native'. FreeBSD's ports contains wine, as well as NetBSD's.
I think we should also move the text "This endorsement is the primary recognition that CodeWeavers has requested in exchange for hosting the Wine web site." to the bottom of the page, and change it to read "Thanks to CodeWeavers for hosting WineHQ.org".
+1 -- -Austin
I think we should also move the text "This endorsement is the primary recognition that CodeWeavers has requested in exchange for hosting the Wine web site." to the bottom of the page, and change it to read "Thanks to CodeWeavers for hosting WineHQ.org".
+1
To be very honest, that would hurt. We get an appreciable amount of traffic from that more prominent location, and that traffic helps to pay our salaries. I feel that it is reasonable for us to ask for that prominent placement, given our contributions, particularly since we're quite honest and clear about it. Cheers, Jeremy
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 9:42 AM, Jeremy White <jwhite(a)winehq.org> wrote:
I think we should also move the text "This endorsement is the primary recognition that CodeWeavers has requested in exchange for hosting the Wine web site." to the bottom of the page, and change it to read "Thanks to CodeWeavers for hosting WineHQ.org".
To be very honest, that would hurt.
We get an appreciable amount of traffic from that more prominent location, and that traffic helps to pay our salaries.
I'm not proposing moving the download link, just the endorsement, which currently isn't a link. (We should probably turn the endorsement into a link.)
I feel that it is reasonable for us to ask for that prominent placement, given our contributions, particularly since we're quite honest and clear about it.
No argument there, but the thing you want prominently placed is the download link, not the thankyou, right?
No argument there, but the thing you want prominently placed is the download link, not the thankyou, right?
Oh, sorry; I didn't understand. I was trying to be honorable on this point by clearly revealing why that prominent placement was given to us; a truth in advertising sort of thing. I can see that it consumes vertical white space, and I can get over myself. I remove my objection :-/. Cheers, Jeremy
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 9:55 AM, Jeremy White <jwhite(a)winehq.org> wrote:
I can see that it consumes vertical white space, and I can get over myself. I remove my objection :-/.
Thanks! Next idea: why don't we detect the user's distro via javascript, and put a targeted link to the 'right' package above the table? Please try http://kegel.com/wine/distro.html and let me know if it detects your distro properly, I'll fix it up as needed. I'm kind of excited about this technique for cleaning up install flows... - Dan
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 12:40 PM, Dan Kegel <dank(a)kegel.com> wrote: [...]
Next idea: why don't we detect the user's distro via javascript, and put a targeted link to the 'right' package above the table?
Please try http://kegel.com/wine/distro.html and let me know if it detects your distro properly, I'll fix it up as needed.
I'm kind of excited about this technique for cleaning up install flows... - Dan
On Gentoo with www-client/mozilla-firefox (not mozilla-firefox-bin) the page just detects "unknown distribution Linux". Thanks, -- Daniel Verkamp
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 10:45 AM, Daniel Verkamp <daniel(a)drv.nu> wrote:
Please try http://kegel.com/wine/distro.html and let me know if it detects your distro properly,
On Gentoo with www-client/mozilla-firefox (not mozilla-firefox-bin) the page just detects "unknown distribution Linux".
Try it now...
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Dan Kegel <dank(a)kegel.com> wrote:
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 10:45 AM, Daniel Verkamp <daniel(a)drv.nu> wrote:
Please try http://kegel.com/wine/distro.html and let me know if it detects your distro properly,
On Gentoo with www-client/mozilla-firefox (not mozilla-firefox-bin) the page just detects "unknown distribution Linux".
Try it now...
Indeed, works now. (As a side note, since there are no Gentoo packages on the download page, maybe it makes sense to point the user at some appropriate documentation about how to install it.)
For me, it got Gentoo just fine. using: www-client/mozilla-firefox-3.1_beta2-r1 "You're using Firefox 3.1 on Gentoo Linux!" --Murph On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 12:45 PM, Daniel Verkamp <daniel(a)drv.nu> wrote:
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 12:40 PM, Dan Kegel <dank(a)kegel.com> wrote: [...]
Next idea: why don't we detect the user's distro via javascript, and put a targeted link to the 'right' package above the table?
Please try http://kegel.com/wine/distro.html and let me know if it detects your distro properly, I'll fix it up as needed.
I'm kind of excited about this technique for cleaning up install flows... - Dan
On Gentoo with www-client/mozilla-firefox (not mozilla-firefox-bin) the page just detects "unknown distribution Linux".
Thanks, -- Daniel Verkamp
On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 10:40:28 -0800 Dan Kegel <dank(a)kegel.com> wrote:
Please try http://kegel.com/wine/distro.html and let me know if it detects your distro properly, I'll fix it up as needed.
It does not my detect distro version. Can that be done?
Next idea: why don't we detect the user's distro via javascript, and put a targeted link to the 'right' package above the table?
Can we also have a non-Javascript page, please? People with accessibility issues, and crufty old curmudgeons like me who disable Javascript by default, would appreciate it. --Juan
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 10:53 AM, Juan Lang <juan.lang(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Next idea: why don't we detect the user's distro via javascript, and put a targeted link to the 'right' package above the table?
Can we also have a non-Javascript page, please? People with accessibility issues, and crufty old curmudgeons like me who disable Javascript by default, would appreciate it.
Of course. I think we should only have a single page, and if Javascript is active, it should simply work better.
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 11:56 AM, Dan Kegel <dank(a)kegel.com> wrote:
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 10:53 AM, Juan Lang <juan.lang(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Next idea: why don't we detect the user's distro via javascript, and put a targeted link to the 'right' package above the table?
Can we also have a non-Javascript page, please? People with accessibility issues, and crufty old curmudgeons like me who disable Javascript by default, would appreciate it.
Of course. I think we should only have a single page, and if Javascript is active, it should simply work better.
You could use the HTTP_USER_AGENT environment variable to do a first-order attempt. That way for people with Javascript disabled there's at least a chance you'll detect their distribution. Erich Hoover ehoover(a)mines.edu
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 11:52 AM, Erich Hoover <ehoover(a)mines.edu> wrote:
You could use the HTTP_USER_AGENT environment variable to do a first-order attempt. That way for people with Javascript disabled there's at least a chance you'll detect their distribution.
Yeah, we could probably do it all in php instead of javascript.
2009/2/20 Dan Kegel <dank(a)kegel.com>:
Next idea: why don't we detect the user's distro via javascript, and put a targeted link to the 'right' package above the table? Please try http://kegel.com/wine/distro.html and let me know if it detects your distro properly, I'll fix it up as needed.
You're running Mozilla 1.9 on an unknown distribution Windows! (Actually Firefox 3.1 in Wine on Ubuntu, but there's nothing in the user-agent that says it's not Windows ;-) ) - d.
Hi Dan, Firefox 3.1b2 on OpenSolaris 2008.11 returns: 'unknown distribution of an unknown OS'. Cheers Hark Dan Kegel wrote:
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 9:55 AM, Jeremy White <jwhite(a)winehq.org> wrote:
I can see that it consumes vertical white space, and I can get over myself. I remove my objection :-/.
Thanks!
Next idea: why don't we detect the user's distro via javascript, and put a targeted link to the 'right' package above the table?
Please try http://kegel.com/wine/distro.html and let me know if it detects your distro properly, I'll fix it up as needed.
I'm kind of excited about this technique for cleaning up install flows... - Dan
On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 10:40:28 -0800 Dan Kegel <dank(a)kegel.com> wrote:
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 9:55 AM, Jeremy White <jwhite(a)winehq.org> wrote:
I can see that it consumes vertical white space, and I can get over myself. I remove my objection :-/.
Thanks!
Next idea: why don't we detect the user's distro via javascript, and put a targeted link to the 'right' package above the table?
Please try http://kegel.com/wine/distro.html and let me know if it detects your distro properly, I'll fix it up as needed.
I'm kind of excited about this technique for cleaning up install flows... - Dan
You're running Firefox 3 on an unknown distribution Linux! (That's for Firefox 3 on openSUSE 10.3). -- Rosanne DiMesio <dimesio(a)earthlink.net>
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 7:40 PM, Dan Kegel <dank(a)kegel.com> wrote:
Please try http://kegel.com/wine/distro.html and let me know if it detects your distro properly, I'll fix it up as needed.
You're running Firefox 3 on an unknown distribution Linux! Actually: Epiphany 2.24.1 on Ubuntu 8.10 x86-64
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 7:40 PM, Dan Kegel <dank(a)kegel.com> wrote:
Please try http://kegel.com/wine/distro.html and let me know if it detects your distro properly, I'll fix it up as needed.You're running
Firefox 3 on an unknown distribution Windows an unknown CPU! Firefox 3.0.6 on Windows XP SP3 userAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.0.6) Gecko/2009011913 Firefox/3.0.6 Rolf Kalbermatter
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 11:02:16PM +0100, Rolf Kalbermatter wrote:
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 7:40 PM, Dan Kegel <dank(a)kegel.com> wrote:
Please try http://kegel.com/wine/distro.html and let me know if it detects your distro properly, I'll fix it up as needed.You're running
Firefox 3 on an unknown distribution Windows an unknown CPU!
Firefox 3.0.6 on Windows XP SP3
userAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.0.6) Gecko/2009011913 Firefox/3.0.6
You're running Konqueror 3.5 on an unknown distribution Linux an unknown CPU! Please let Dan Kegel (dank(a)kegel.com) know if this isn't accurate. Please include the incorrect output, the correct distro name, and the following information: userAgent Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; Konqueror/3.5) KHTML/3.5.9 (like Gecko) SUSE (openSUSE 11.0) Ciao, Marcus
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 7:40 PM, Dan Kegel <dank(a)kegel.com> wrote:
Please try http://kegel.com/wine/distro.html and let me know if it detects your distro properly, I'll fix it up as needed.
It's probably a more useful test if you also print the reported user agent string. (By the way, Dan, could you somehow coerce your colleagues into making a bottom-posting Gmail? ;) ) Remco
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Remco <remco47(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 7:40 PM, Dan Kegel <dank(a)kegel.com> wrote:
Please try http://kegel.com/wine/distro.html and let me know if it detects your distro properly, I'll fix it up as needed.
It's probably a more useful test if you also print the reported user agent string. (By the way, Dan, could you somehow coerce your colleagues into making a bottom-posting Gmail? ;) )
Remco
Seconded. Attached is a simple (read: dumb) "distro finder" in PHP. Erich Hoover ehoover(a)mines.edu
Next idea: why don't we detect the user's distro via javascript, and put a targeted link to the 'right' package above the table?
Please try http://kegel.com/wine/distro.html and let me know if it detects your distro properly, I'll fix it up as needed.
I'm kind of excited about this technique for cleaning up install flows... - Dan
Konqueror 3.5 on an unknown distribution Linux an unknown CPU! userAgent Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; Konqueror/3.5; Linux) KHTML/3.5.10 (like Gecko) (Kubuntu) Cheers, Kai -- Kai Blin WorldForge developer http://www.worldforge.org/ Wine developer http://wiki.winehq.org/KaiBlin Samba team member http://www.samba.org/samba/team/ -- Will code for cotton.
On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 4:45 AM, Kai Blin <kai.blin(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Please try http://kegel.com/wine/distro.html
Konqueror 3.5 on an unknown distribution Linux an unknown CPU! userAgent Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; Konqueror/3.5; Linux) KHTML/3.5.10 (like Gecko) (Kubuntu)
Yeah, that's https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332339, and rather unlikely to be fixed unless a lot of people push for it. I think the upshot of this experiement is that we should use the useragent info when it's helpful (which is most of the time, since Firefox on Ubuntu and several othe distros has the needed info), and just keep on as we were doing when it's not (which should only be 20% or so of the time). - Dan
On Sunday 22 February 2009 15:51:31 Dan Kegel wrote:
On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 4:45 AM, Kai Blin <kai.blin(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Please try http://kegel.com/wine/distro.html
Konqueror 3.5 on an unknown distribution Linux an unknown CPU! userAgent Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; Konqueror/3.5; Linux) KHTML/3.5.10 (like Gecko) (Kubuntu)
Yeah, that's https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332339, and rather unlikely to be fixed unless a lot of people push for it.
No, it's not. You can see that the userAgent string contains (Kubuntu). I'm not sure if I turned this on at some point in the past, but it's not parsed correctly in any case.
I think the upshot of this experiement is that we should use the useragent info when it's helpful (which is most of the time, since Firefox on Ubuntu and several othe distros has the needed info), and just keep on as we were doing when it's not (which should only be 20% or so of the time).
+1 Cheers, Kai -- Kai Blin WorldForge developer http://www.worldforge.org/ Wine developer http://wiki.winehq.org/KaiBlin Samba team member http://www.samba.org/samba/team/ -- Will code for cotton.
On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 11:33 AM, Kai Blin <kai.blin(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Please try http://kegel.com/wine/distro.html
You can see that the userAgent string contains (Kubuntu)...
Oh, right, thanks. I've added a lower-case ubuntu to the list, can you try again? (The search should be case- insensitive, but I haven't bothered to look up how to do that in Javascript, since we want to do this on the server side anyway...) - Dan
On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 09:24:09 -0800 Dan Kegel <dank(a)kegel.com> wrote:
Can we add in a line at the top saying "Stable version 1.0.1 of Wine can usually be installed just like any other Linux application using your package manager (e.g. in Ubuntu, do Applications / Add/Remove, select Wine, and click Apply Changes).
If that doesn't work, or if you need a newer version of Wine, here's how to get it." ?
The problem with the way you've phrased it is that it's simply not true. Ubuntu users have complained on the forum more than once that there are no 1.0.1 packages in their repository. I've also never seen any 1.0.1 packages for openSUSE in any of the repositories or the Sourceforge archive. Take out the "Stable version 1.0.1 of" and it works. -- Rosanne DiMesio <dimesio(a)earthlink.net>
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 11:47:16AM -0600, Rosanne DiMesio wrote:
On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 09:24:09 -0800 Dan Kegel <dank(a)kegel.com> wrote:
Can we add in a line at the top saying "Stable version 1.0.1 of Wine can usually be installed just like any other Linux application using your package manager (e.g. in Ubuntu, do Applications / Add/Remove, select Wine, and click Apply Changes).
If that doesn't work, or if you need a newer version of Wine, here's how to get it." ?
The problem with the way you've phrased it is that it's simply not true. Ubuntu users have complained on the forum more than once that there are no 1.0.1 packages in their repository. I've also never seen any 1.0.1 packages for openSUSE in any of the repositories or the Sourceforge archive.
Take out the "Stable version 1.0.1 of" and it works.
I actually build them, in http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/Emulators:/Wine:/STABLE/<distro> but up to adding them I never had a single request for the stable version. I think the regular downloading user might not be interested, and our regular development releases are stable enough. Ciao, Marcus
Rosanne DiMesio wrote:
On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 09:24:09 -0800 Dan Kegel <dank(a)kegel.com> wrote:
Can we add in a line at the top saying "Stable version 1.0.1 of Wine can usually be installed just like any other Linux application using your package manager (e.g. in Ubuntu, do Applications / Add/Remove, select Wine, and click Apply Changes).
If that doesn't work, or if you need a newer version of Wine, here's how to get it." ?
The problem with the way you've phrased it is that it's simply not true. Ubuntu users have complained on the forum more than once that there are no 1.0.1 packages in their repository. I've also never seen any 1.0.1 packages for openSUSE in any of the repositories or the Sourceforge archive.
1.0.1 is included in Ubuntu 8.10. 8.04 still has 1.0.0 though. I think I started a backport a long time ago, but I guess it never finished. Thanks, Scott Ritchie
2009/2/21 Dan Kegel <dank(a)kegel.com>:
Can we add in a line at the top saying "Stable version 1.0.1 of Wine can usually be installed just like any other Linux application using your package manager (e.g. in Ubuntu, do Applications / Add/Remove, select Wine, and click Apply Changes).
I know some versions of Ubuntu ship with 1.0.1 in official repositories, but I don't know of any other distros that do. Regarding the browser-detection, server-side scripting is the best way. I'm always against needlessly adding Javascript to pages. What I'd like to see is some option to view the full list of distros/sources even when the detection worked. Something like: "To see download pages for more distributions, click here" It can be useful to be able to see one system's instructions from another, especially when doing user support.
participants (17)
-
Austin English -
Ben Klein -
Dan Kegel -
Daniel Verkamp -
David Gerard -
Erich Hoover -
IneedAname -
Jeremy White -
Juan Lang -
Kai Blin -
Marcus Meissner -
Matt 'Murph' Finnicum -
Remco -
Rolf Kalbermatter -
Rosanne DiMesio -
Scott Ritchie -
Vít Hrachový