[PATCH v2 0/1] MR8605: winebus: Set FFB autcenter to 0 instead of 100 on device reset
FFB Autocenter introduced in https://gitlab.winehq.org/wine/wine/-/merge_requests/4911 had one major misunderstanding. The USB PID standard doesn't actually define any explicit way to autocenter a device. One could of course use the spring effect with a deadzone of 0 and dead band of 0. This is what I'm actually working on for the Linux PID driver (spring + friction/damper). Some devices implement autocenter in firmware when they receive the DC Disable Actuators command. Very few, if not just one, implement this weird autocenter effect on slot 1. This is, from what I can gather, only implemented on the MS SideWinder joystick(s) and the Windows' USB PID driver is created around these devices. Windows PID driver is a bit out of spec, is quite permissive when it comes to fields missing in the descriptor (basically, only effect types and their effect type blocks are optional). Another thing it does is handling of this out-of-spec autocentering for their joysticks. Funnliy enough, the creator of the Linux PID driver based the initial code on testing with MS Sidewinder so it's autocentering is supported. This is where the autocentering mentioned in the MR comes from. It's not the directinput api that does it but the Windows PID driver. As such, autocentering on reset should be left to the drivers, not handeled by Wine. SDL lacks full reset support and Linux is even more barebones, whre it's not even possible to query the device state, effects etc (something I'm working on slowly). As such, when games send out RESET to prepare the device, the device starts autocentering for no good reason and the effect is not removed once other effect are uploaded and played which would be the case for MS sidewinder. In any case, even Windows in inconsistent and I think the directinput documentation has some errors. directinput ffb api is largely based on USB PID but:   Testing with my Moza Racing R9 wheelbase, the DC Reset PID command is sent, but there's no DC Disable Actuators in sight. The games still call reset then enable actuators though. tl;dr Set autocentering to 0 instead of max value when DISFFC_RESET is reveived to remove the unwanted autocenter behavior. Signed-off-by: Tomasz Pakuła <tomasz.pakula.oficjalny(a)gmail.com> -- v2: winebus: Set FFB autcenter to 0 instead of 100 on device reset. https://gitlab.winehq.org/wine/wine/-/merge_requests/8605
From: Tomasz Pakuła <tomasz.pakula.oficjalny(a)gmail.com> FFB Autocenter introduced in https://gitlab.winehq.org/wine/wine/-/merge_requests/4911 had one major misunderstanding. The USB PID standard doesn't actually define any explicit way to autocenter a device. One could of course use the spring effect with a deadzone of 0 and dead band of 0. This is what I'm actually working on for the Linux PID driver (spring + friction/damper). Some devices implement autocenter in firmware when they receive the DC Disable Actuators command. Very few, if not just one, implement this weird autocenter effect on slot 1. This is, from what I can gather, only implemented on the MS SideWinder joystick(s) and the Windows' USB PID driver is created around these devices. Windows PID driver is a bit out of spec, is quite permissive when it comes to fields missing in the descriptor (basically, only effect types and their effect type blocks are optional). Another thing it does is handling of this out-of-spec autocentering for their joysticks. Funnliy enough, the creator of the Linux PID driver based the initial code on testing with MS Sidewinder so it's autocentering is supported. This is where the autocentering mentioned in the MR comes from. It's not the directinput api that does it but the Windows PID driver. As such, autocentering on reset should be left to the drivers, not handeled by Wine. SDL lacks full reset support and Linux is even more barebones, whre it's not even possible to query the device state, effects etc (something I'm working on slowly). As such, when games send out RESET to prepare the device, the device starts autocentering for no good reason and the effect is not removed once other effect are uploaded and played which would be the case for MS sidewinder. tl;dr Set autocentering to 0 instead of max value when DISFFC_RESET is reveived to remove the unwanted autocenter behavior. Signed-off-by: Tomasz Pakuła <tomasz.pakula.oficjalny(a)gmail.com> --- dlls/winebus.sys/bus_sdl.c | 2 +- dlls/winebus.sys/bus_udev.c | 2 +- 2 files changed, 2 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-) diff --git a/dlls/winebus.sys/bus_sdl.c b/dlls/winebus.sys/bus_sdl.c index 5cec049a845..318a0b8c6e5 100644 --- a/dlls/winebus.sys/bus_sdl.c +++ b/dlls/winebus.sys/bus_sdl.c @@ -560,7 +560,7 @@ static NTSTATUS sdl_device_physical_device_control(struct unix_device *iface, US pSDL_HapticDestroyEffect(impl->sdl_haptic, impl->effect_ids[i]); impl->effect_ids[i] = -1; } - pSDL_HapticSetAutocenter(impl->sdl_haptic, 100); + pSDL_HapticSetAutocenter(impl->sdl_haptic, 0); return STATUS_SUCCESS; case PID_USAGE_DC_DEVICE_PAUSE: pSDL_HapticPause(impl->sdl_haptic); diff --git a/dlls/winebus.sys/bus_udev.c b/dlls/winebus.sys/bus_udev.c index 39b810b7588..d660da71644 100644 --- a/dlls/winebus.sys/bus_udev.c +++ b/dlls/winebus.sys/bus_udev.c @@ -921,7 +921,7 @@ static NTSTATUS lnxev_device_physical_device_control(struct unix_device *iface, WARN("couldn't free effect, EVIOCRMFF ioctl failed: %d %s\n", errno, strerror(errno)); impl->effect_ids[i] = -1; } - lnxev_device_physical_device_set_autocenter(iface, 100); + lnxev_device_physical_device_set_autocenter(iface, 0); return STATUS_SUCCESS; case PID_USAGE_DC_DEVICE_PAUSE: WARN("device pause not supported\n"); -- GitLab https://gitlab.winehq.org/wine/wine/-/merge_requests/8605
@twhitehead what was the device you were testing this with? -- https://gitlab.winehq.org/wine/wine/-/merge_requests/8605#note_110447
The USB info for my device is ID 045e:001b Microsoft Corp. SideWinder Force Feedback 2 Joystick -- https://gitlab.winehq.org/wine/wine/-/merge_requests/8605#note_110451
Yeah, that's what I thought. Together with @jacketus, we are maintainers of `hid-universal-pidff` and defacto maintainers of `hid-pidff` drivers. You can contact us and we could figure out the autocenter situation on the sidewinder. I'm now doing another batch of driver improvememnts and features and I could prod around this while working on effect-based autocenter for all PID devices. -- https://gitlab.winehq.org/wine/wine/-/merge_requests/8605#note_110454
The issue I was working on when I did the initial implementation was making the Sidewinder work for a flight simulator I use (I still have to implement [loading effect for a file API](https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/previous-versions/windows/desktop/ee417886...)) to complete this). As there was originally no support for `DIPROP_AUTOCENTER` (it was ignored), the default autocentering never got turned off, and so autocentering was overlaid on top of everything. I based the patch on reading the USB PID spec and testing my device under Windows and Linux. Under Windows I snooped the USB packets (thanks wireshark) and under Linux I read through the actual driver code. One item that concerned me is I didn't want autocentering to waste an effect slot, as there aren't a lot of them on the Sidewinder, hence why hooked into the Linux FF autocentering API instead of emulating anything with a spring effect.
From your commit, I believe you are turning autocentering off on device reset? This would be different behaviour than I saw with my Sidewinder under Windows? Am I correct then in understanding that you are saying the reason you are doing this is that
1. my implementation has all devices turning on autocentering on reset, while 2. under Windows all devices, but the Sidewinder, turn off autocentering on reset? In other words, the Windows dinput FF world is a mess whereby code that was written where the developers were testing with the Sidewinder (e.g., flying simulators) are written expecting auto centering to be enabled on reset, while codes that were written were the developers were using wheels (e.g., driving simulators) are written to not expect auto centering to be enabled on reset? -- https://gitlab.winehq.org/wine/wine/-/merge_requests/8605#note_110519
1. MS Sidewinder uses USB PID 2. MS Wanted an easy way to enable autocentering, not by using a combination of two effects (a lone spring will be too violent and unstable). 3. The Windows PID driver is just setting the autocenter on sidewinder after every DC Reset command. This is something we could easily replicate in the Linux driver. After doing all the reset routines (we decided it's best to do reset + stop all effects + enable actuators) I could add the autocenter for sidewinder if the weird autocenter stuff is detected (Linux driver can already detect it). Now, this is getting tricky on Linux because Linux does not expose the device control (yet). If we want the true functionality of the reset command, we should disable the autocenter but in your case, that would again disable the autocenter activated by reset. I think it's a though call now. We could eiter revert to pre-wine 10 behavior of just leaving autocenter alone or do as I did in this change. Again, this autocenter behavior on SideWinder is custom just for that joystick line. For all other devices, they just receive the DC Reset command. Other devices could still autocenter after reset/disable actuators but that's up to the firmware and not controlled by the API/Driver. -- https://gitlab.winehq.org/wine/wine/-/merge_requests/8605#note_110521
tl;dr The Reset command in directinput api doesn't explicitly touch the autocenter setting. Wheter wine should disable it, without access to proper device control is a decision that isn't straightforward -- https://gitlab.winehq.org/wine/wine/-/merge_requests/8605#note_110522
I just confirmed with Wireshark and few games like American Truck simulator. The directinput docs are wrong and reset does not disable actuators. Some games/applications send a combination of: DC Reset DC Stop All Effects DC Enable Actuators Set gain to max But with ATS, the only init the game does is DC reset + max gain. -- https://gitlab.winehq.org/wine/wine/-/merge_requests/8605#note_110524
It seems to me that we might just want to skip requesting auto-centering entirely with the SDL/evdev backend, as, like you said, the semantics of reset isn't to enable to disable autocenter and instead to reset the device to its default state (which is up to the driver). For Proton (in Proton Experimental) I have implemented this as a per-device user-configurable option, do you think there is something wrong with this approach? -- https://gitlab.winehq.org/wine/wine/-/merge_requests/8605#note_111283
I think the per device setting is okay, but like you said, the best way would be not to touch autocenter at all by default. Maaaaaybe I can get FFB linux work finished this year so we could have proper device control, but this will require some effort from driver maintainera as well. -- https://gitlab.winehq.org/wine/wine/-/merge_requests/8605#note_111285
What about closing / opening the device again through `SDL_HapticClose`/`SDL_HapticOpenFromJoystick` or `close`/`open(impl->devnode)`? Would that work as a device reset? -- https://gitlab.winehq.org/wine/wine/-/merge_requests/8605#note_111452
No. It's impossible to trigger real reset. For now, what we do in the PID driver is we keep track of the number of effects uploaded to the device. If we're uploading a new effect to an "empty" one, we trigger a reset sequence consisting of reset, stop all effects, enable actuators. Just removing all effects is fine at this point -- https://gitlab.winehq.org/wine/wine/-/merge_requests/8605#note_111457
So, if I am understanding, there is a variety of device dependent outcomes of doing a reset under Windows? This includes enabling autocentering, setting gain, stopping actuators, etc. As an example, using the specific behaviour this ticket was initially opened for 1. sidewinders autocenter on reset, and 2. most (all?) other devices do not autocenter on reset. If I am understanding this correctly, I would then the Windows software world to be a bit of a mess where different programs make different assumptions about what a reset does based on what devices the developers where using when they wrote the software. For example 1. programs developed for sidewinder joystick (e.g., flight simulators) probably assume autocenter on reset, while 2. programs developed for wheels (e.g., driving simulators) probably assume no autocenter on reset. The implication being that there is no single default behaviour you can can choose where you will not be breaking some applications. While you could put in a bunch of device specific behaviour to match up with Windows, maybe it would be best to just make what happens be user configurable? -- https://gitlab.winehq.org/wine/wine/-/merge_requests/8605#note_111546
There's no big philosophy there. MS wanted autocenter so they did it. That's at the end is how all drivers work when donething is not 100% defined. And basically, sidewinder might be the outlier here. I really didn't ever encounter any other device that enables autocenter on reset. Some devices do autocenter on DISABLE ACTUATORS though. Wuite honestly, that autocenter on reset should've been implemented firmware-side but MS had the unfortunate privilege of developing the PID driver alongside sidewinder :/ So yes, it's just a little messy and quite honestly, maybe it's time for someone to create USB PID 2.0, but who would do such a thing? Manufacturers prefer just doing their own thing and protocols, usually doing THE EXACT SAME thing as USB PID with maybe autocenter sprinkled in. -- https://gitlab.winehq.org/wine/wine/-/merge_requests/8605#note_111548
_TL DR: This patch moves from incorrect reset emulation on your device to incorrect reset emulation on my device. I would prefer something that would be correct reset emulation on both our devices._ My understanding is that the sidewinder itself does the autocentering on reset and power on by putting a spring effect into the first slot and playing it. I expect they made it this way as this makes it useful as a regular joystick (without any effects playing it is entirely limp and pretty useless) when there isn't force feedback driver/application support. According to my [commit message](https://gitlab.winehq.org/wine/wine/-/commit/9dc1ddf801d9db287eb6e7dc13036ef...), snooping the USB bus under Windows showed me that, for the sidewinder, * if you set autocentering it just does a reset on acquire, and * if you set no autocentering it does a reset followed by a stop all effects on acquire. My understanding of the problem on linux is the [force feedback input subsystem](https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/input/ff.html) doesn't give you access to these operations, so there is no way to directly do what Window's does. Rather wine has to emulate things using the operations it has. For reset this currently means * manually stopping all the effects it has started * enabling autocenter and for stop all effects this means * manually stopping all the effects it has started * disabling autocenter The sticky issue is then enabling of autocenter on reset. This is what the sidewinder does, but it isn't what other (non-joysticks or all?) devices do. This merge request changes from explicitly enabling autocenter on the emulated reset to explicitly disabling autocenter on the emulated reset. My issue with that is it just moves from the emulated behaviour being wrong from your device to it being wrong for my device. I would much prefer to moving to something that could be correct for both our devices. To this end, I suggest either * if this is a sidewinder vs everything else issue (instead of a joystick vs wheel issue), then specifically handle the the sidewinder in the linux reset emulation code so it sets autocentering on for the sidewinder and off for everything else, or * if instead there are other devices that also autocenter on reset, then make it configurable so the user can choose the correct emulation behaviour for their device. -- https://gitlab.winehq.org/wine/wine/-/merge_requests/8605#note_111698
I think we're chatting here too much. I did this PR because I thought that Wine guys actually had something in mind by touching autocenter on reset. It was weird that it get merged like that in the first place. I'm changing this pr to just remove the autocentering on reset and device creation. Let driver handle that and if you still want to pursue the sidewinder issue, please report to the linux `hid-pidff` dirver. -- https://gitlab.winehq.org/wine/wine/-/merge_requests/8605#note_111700
participants (3)
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Rémi Bernon -
Tomasz Pakuła
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Tyson Whitehead (＠twhitehead)