Hi folks, I've got a complex set of thoughts about future Wine conferences which I've discussed privately with some folks, and wanted to bring up publicly. I'm going to share an overview here, and then have another thread strictly about Wineconf 2022. Arek Hiler has suggested that CodeWeavers host the X Developers Conference in Minnesota in September of 2022. That seems like a great idea to a lot of us. Our pitch to host that becomes stronger if we combine it with another conference, which creates a reason to combine Wineconf with XDC 2022. There also seems to be broad agreement that would be a good idea. I'll start another thread on that, with some further complications. However, working backwards, you come to the conclusion that our next Wine conference, if it's not that one in 2022, would probably be best accomplished in 2021. Given the vaccination rates in Japan, that seems to preclude the plan we had in place, which was a Wineconf in Japan. Alexandre and I have very little appetite for a virtual conference, which pretty much derailed the efforts to have a virtual conference in 2020 and suggests that trying to have a virtual conference in 2021 would not go well. Given all that, there is some thought to try for a hybrid conference somewhere in Europe later this year. The vaccination rates have led to an opening in the US that has been joyful; the hope is that Europe will not be far behind. I've discussed this with a range of folks, and the consensus seemed to be to wait and see. The Europeans are still quite nervous about that, and there is some concern about the variations, but they admit that perspectives may shift. I'm prepared to argue that a somewhat hurried, somewhat risky (i.e. with a real risk of cancellation) conference would still be worth it. I am the raging extrovert of the group, though. At any rate, the thought was to wait one or two months and then see, at least for Wineconf 2021. The full thought, then, is if our bid is accepted by XDC to have Wineconf 2022 in Minnesota, and then Japan in 2023. If our bid is not accepted, then I imagine Wineconf 2022 would be in Japan. Other thoughts? Cheers, Jeremy
Hello from a longtime lurker! I'm not planning to attend, but here are some thoughts from my biology geek side. Coronavirus data for Minneapolis' surrounding county at https://covidactnow.org/us/minnesota-mn/county/hennepin_county shows Rt well below 1.0 and 60% full vaccination, which is pretty good. I figure if there is no post-july-4th surge in the next couple weeks, it should be safe for fully vaccinated people to attend. See https://events.linuxfoundation.org/open-source-summit-north-america/attend/h... for an example policy the event might want to adopt (or who knows, might already be required to adopt, dunno about xdc governance). Also, rules for international travel are complex. Being fully vaccinated is strongly recommended and a specific kind of proof of vaccination and a recent specific test result may also be required; see e.g. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/international-travel-dur... https://reopen.europa.eu/ I suspect travellers may need to obey rules for both origin and destination countries... - Dan
FWIW when I came back to the US from Mexico a little over a week ago they DID NOT ask for proof of a negative Covid test. I had one done, I had the papers and alas they weren’t needed. While rules on international travel are complex, they are not consistent and/or enforced. Jana Jana Schmid Marketing Director CodeWeavers 700 Raymond Ave. | Suite 120 St. Paul, MN 55114 www.codeweavers.com <http://www.codeweavers.com/>
On Jul 7, 2021, at 3:03 PM, Dan Kegel <dank(a)kegel.com> wrote:
Hello from a longtime lurker! I'm not planning to attend, but here are some thoughts from my biology geek side.
Coronavirus data for Minneapolis' surrounding county at https://covidactnow.org/us/minnesota-mn/county/hennepin_county shows Rt well below 1.0 and 60% full vaccination, which is pretty good.
I figure if there is no post-july-4th surge in the next couple weeks, it should be safe for fully vaccinated people to attend. See https://events.linuxfoundation.org/open-source-summit-north-america/attend/h... for an example policy the event might want to adopt (or who knows, might already be required to adopt, dunno about xdc governance).
Also, rules for international travel are complex. Being fully vaccinated is strongly recommended and a specific kind of proof of vaccination and a recent specific test result may also be required; see e.g. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/international-travel-dur... https://reopen.europa.eu/ I suspect travellers may need to obey rules for both origin and destination countries... - Dan
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Hi, On Wed, Jul 07, 2021 at 01:03:59PM -0700, Dan Kegel wrote:
Hello from a longtime lurker! I'm not planning to attend, but here are some thoughts from my biology geek side.
Coronavirus data for Minneapolis' surrounding county at https://covidactnow.org/us/minnesota-mn/county/hennepin_county shows Rt well below 1.0 and 60% full vaccination, which is pretty good.
I figure if there is no post-july-4th surge in the next couple weeks, it should be safe for fully vaccinated people to attend. See https://events.linuxfoundation.org/open-source-summit-north-america/attend/h... for an example policy the event might want to adopt (or who knows, might already be required to adopt, dunno about xdc governance).
Also, rules for international travel are complex. Being fully vaccinated is strongly recommended and a specific kind of proof of vaccination and a recent specific test result may also be required; see e.g. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/international-travel-dur... https://reopen.europa.eu/ I suspect travellers may need to obey rules for both origin and destination countries...
The pandemic situation is quite fluid still, so any forecasts are risky. See UK currently with a exponential raise of numbers due to the Delta strain (and ongoing cutting of anti corona measures) ... I see also other European countries and likely also the US on an uptick in the next weeks / months again due to Delta. I fear the current pandemic situation makes planning a in person event in 2021 a bit risky. Ciao, Marcus
Yeah, bit hard to predict. Nobody knows which way things will go, quite. To reduce risk of an outbreak at the conference city, better pick one with a really good vaccination rate. Africa is right out... Better allow remote participation, too. - Dan On Wed, Jul 7, 2021 at 10:46 PM Marcus Meissner <meissner(a)suse.de> wrote:
Hi,
On Wed, Jul 07, 2021 at 01:03:59PM -0700, Dan Kegel wrote:
Hello from a longtime lurker! I'm not planning to attend, but here are some thoughts from my biology geek side.
Coronavirus data for Minneapolis' surrounding county at https://covidactnow.org/us/minnesota-mn/county/hennepin_county shows Rt well below 1.0 and 60% full vaccination, which is pretty good.
I figure if there is no post-july-4th surge in the next couple weeks, it should be safe for fully vaccinated people to attend. See https://events.linuxfoundation.org/open-source-summit-north-america/attend/h... for an example policy the event might want to adopt (or who knows, might already be required to adopt, dunno about xdc governance).
Also, rules for international travel are complex. Being fully vaccinated is strongly recommended and a specific kind of proof of vaccination and a recent specific test result may also be required; see e.g. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/international-travel-dur... https://reopen.europa.eu/ I suspect travellers may need to obey rules for both origin and destination countries...
The pandemic situation is quite fluid still, so any forecasts are risky.
See UK currently with a exponential raise of numbers due to the Delta strain (and ongoing cutting of anti corona measures) ...
I see also other European countries and likely also the US on an uptick in the next weeks / months again due to Delta.
I fear the current pandemic situation makes planning a in person event in 2021 a bit risky.
Ciao, Marcus
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Excellent points, Dan. On 7/8/21 10:37 AM, Dan Kegel wrote:
Yeah, bit hard to predict. Nobody knows which way things will go, quite.
To reduce risk of an outbreak at the conference city, better pick one with a really good vaccination rate. Africa is right out...
Better allow remote participation, too. - Dan
On Wed, Jul 7, 2021 at 10:46 PM Marcus Meissner <meissner(a)suse.de> wrote:
Hi,
On Wed, Jul 07, 2021 at 01:03:59PM -0700, Dan Kegel wrote:
Hello from a longtime lurker! I'm not planning to attend, but here are some thoughts from my biology geek side.
Coronavirus data for Minneapolis' surrounding county at https://covidactnow.org/us/minnesota-mn/county/hennepin_county shows Rt well below 1.0 and 60% full vaccination, which is pretty good.
I figure if there is no post-july-4th surge in the next couple weeks, it should be safe for fully vaccinated people to attend. See https://events.linuxfoundation.org/open-source-summit-north-america/attend/h... for an example policy the event might want to adopt (or who knows, might already be required to adopt, dunno about xdc governance).
Also, rules for international travel are complex. Being fully vaccinated is strongly recommended and a specific kind of proof of vaccination and a recent specific test result may also be required; see e.g. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/international-travel-dur... https://reopen.europa.eu/ I suspect travellers may need to obey rules for both origin and destination countries... The pandemic situation is quite fluid still, so any forecasts are risky.
See UK currently with a exponential raise of numbers due to the Delta strain (and ongoing cutting of anti corona measures) ...
I see also other European countries and likely also the US on an uptick in the next weeks / months again due to Delta.
I fear the current pandemic situation makes planning a in person event in 2021 a bit risky.
Ciao, Marcus
_______________________________________________ wineconf mailing list wineconf(a)winehq.org https://www.winehq.org/mailman/listinfo/wineconf
wineconf mailing list wineconf(a)winehq.org https://www.winehq.org/mailman/listinfo/wineconf
+1 on the remote attendance/participation :-) Cheers, Aaryaman On Fri, Jul 9, 2021 at 12:41 AM Mandi Gagne (she/her) <mandi(a)codeweavers.com> wrote:
Excellent points, Dan.
On 7/8/21 10:37 AM, Dan Kegel wrote:
Yeah, bit hard to predict. Nobody knows which way things will go, quite.
To reduce risk of an outbreak at the conference city, better pick one with a really good vaccination rate. Africa is right out...
Better allow remote participation, too. - Dan
On Wed, Jul 7, 2021 at 10:46 PM Marcus Meissner <meissner(a)suse.de> wrote:
Hi,
On Wed, Jul 07, 2021 at 01:03:59PM -0700, Dan Kegel wrote:
Hello from a longtime lurker! I'm not planning to attend, but here are some thoughts from my biology geek side.
Coronavirus data for Minneapolis' surrounding county at https://covidactnow.org/us/minnesota-mn/county/hennepin_county shows Rt well below 1.0 and 60% full vaccination, which is pretty good.
I figure if there is no post-july-4th surge in the next couple weeks, it should be safe for fully vaccinated people to attend. See https://events.linuxfoundation.org/open-source-summit-north-america/attend/h... for an example policy the event might want to adopt (or who knows, might already be required to adopt, dunno about xdc governance).
Also, rules for international travel are complex. Being fully vaccinated is strongly recommended and a specific kind of proof of vaccination and a recent specific test result may also be required; see e.g.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/international-travel-dur...
https://reopen.europa.eu/ I suspect travellers may need to obey rules for both origin and destination countries... The pandemic situation is quite fluid still, so any forecasts are risky.
See UK currently with a exponential raise of numbers due to the Delta strain (and ongoing cutting of anti corona measures) ...
I see also other European countries and likely also the US on an uptick in the next weeks / months again due to Delta.
I fear the current pandemic situation makes planning a in person event in 2021 a bit risky.
Ciao, Marcus
_______________________________________________ wineconf mailing list wineconf(a)winehq.org https://www.winehq.org/mailman/listinfo/wineconf
wineconf mailing list wineconf(a)winehq.org https://www.winehq.org/mailman/listinfo/wineconf
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Hi, Here's an out-of-the-box/continent location I've brought up privately: Tanzania. I'm in the process of halfway moving there, because of my girlfriend and because I kinda always liked the country since I first visited. It has some appeal especially re covid, but also some issues to deal with. My home there is Moshi, on the foot of Mt Kilimanjaro. It's a relatively small town but has everything we need (Hotels/Venues, Bars, food). A nearby alternative location is Arusha. Both are serviced by the Kilimanjaro International Airport (JRO). Alternative airports are DAR and NBO, and if someone wants to vacation before/afterwards ZNZ. Some of the advantages: 1) It is probably the least likely place to break out plans with unexpected new covid travel restrictions or a winter-induced greek letter surge. The country has done without any immigration restrictions since June 2020. There was never any real lockdown due to the economic structure, resilience of the young population, so it is very unlikely they suddenly start with lockdowns or closed borders 2 years into the pandemic. 2) We can aim for late in the year (i.e., Nov, start of Dec) without worrying about ugly weather. That time is also a relatively low season, so Hotels and flights should be cheap if we stay clear of xmas. 3) Tanzania is a welcoming and stable country that I consider worth supporting in a difficult time. 4) It'd be an exciting new location for many and you can go watch some lions after a company sponsored flight. Oh wait, I am writing the advantages here right? Problems, from big to small: 1) The country has Anti-LGBT legislation on the books. While widely considered not an issue for visitors (unless you arrive at the airport wrapped in a rainbow flag) it'd be a dealbreaker in normal times. I have written an email to some people privately on this subject. 2) It is out of the way for pretty much everyone. Flight connections are good from Europe, the middle east and India, but from North America it is connection of two long-haul flights, with a transfer somewhere in Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Istanbul, Doha or Dubai 3) Visa requirements: Tourist and Business Visas are easy to get, but business visas cost $250, significantly raising the cost. I am already special friends with the immigration office, I can check with them if they consider a conference possible on a tourist Visa ($50, available on arrival). Both kinds of Visas are available online, no need to go to an embassy or mail your passport. Anyone flying to NBO will have to deal with Kenyan visa requirements too. 4) Covid / Healthcare situation: Until March the official covid policy was "prayer", but after the death of the previous president (officially a heart attack) it has been upgraded to "test" and "ask the WHO for vaccines". By and large sub-saharan Africa has done pretty well with covid, probably due to a young population that is used to diseases. I was in TZ from July to February without any vaccination and squeezing into a lot of bars and crowded busses and didn't have covid antibodies afterwards. I still highly recommend to get a vaccine before traveling there. A negative PCR test no older than 72 hours is required to enter. If you arrive from a high incidence country (afaik India is on the list), you have to do an additional Antigen test on arrival. No quarantine, unless either test is positive. Beyond covid: There are no mandated vaccinations. Yellow fever if you come from or spend more than 12 hours in a country with yellow fever. Transferring in NBO or ADD is hakuna matata, having a day of touristing in either place would require a vaccination to enter Tanzania. Malaria exists, but is not widespread in Moshi or Arusha due to the high elevation of the places, vector control and quick treatment of ill people. A while ago the WHO suggested taking Malerone as a prophylaxis. A first step to organizing something there is that the immigration office finally grant my residence permit. The bureaucracy there is like a well oiled racecar firing on all cylinders that unfortunately only has one very low gear... Stefan
Am 07.07.2021 um 20:40 schrieb Jeremy White <jwhite(a)codeweavers.com>:
Hi folks,
I've got a complex set of thoughts about future Wine conferences which I've discussed privately with some folks, and wanted to bring up publicly. I'm going to share an overview here, and then have another thread strictly about Wineconf 2022.
Arek Hiler has suggested that CodeWeavers host the X Developers Conference in Minnesota in September of 2022. That seems like a great idea to a lot of us. Our pitch to host that becomes stronger if we combine it with another conference, which creates a reason to combine Wineconf with XDC 2022. There also seems to be broad agreement that would be a good idea.
I'll start another thread on that, with some further complications.
However, working backwards, you come to the conclusion that our next Wine conference, if it's not that one in 2022, would probably be best accomplished in 2021.
Given the vaccination rates in Japan, that seems to preclude the plan we had in place, which was a Wineconf in Japan.
Alexandre and I have very little appetite for a virtual conference, which pretty much derailed the efforts to have a virtual conference in 2020 and suggests that trying to have a virtual conference in 2021 would not go well.
Given all that, there is some thought to try for a hybrid conference somewhere in Europe later this year. The vaccination rates have led to an opening in the US that has been joyful; the hope is that Europe will not be far behind.
I've discussed this with a range of folks, and the consensus seemed to be to wait and see. The Europeans are still quite nervous about that, and there is some concern about the variations, but they admit that perspectives may shift. I'm prepared to argue that a somewhat hurried, somewhat risky (i.e. with a real risk of cancellation) conference would still be worth it. I am the raging extrovert of the group, though.
At any rate, the thought was to wait one or two months and then see, at least for Wineconf 2021.
The full thought, then, is if our bid is accepted by XDC to have Wineconf 2022 in Minnesota, and then Japan in 2023. If our bid is not accepted, then I imagine Wineconf 2022 would be in Japan.
Other thoughts?
Cheers,
Jeremy
_______________________________________________ wineconf mailing list wineconf(a)winehq.org https://www.winehq.org/mailman/listinfo/wineconf
On my first try, Delta is offering 20-hour flights (economy class, with one 4hr stop in Amsterdam) to Tanzania mid-November from MSP for under ~$1500USD. ;) On 7/8/21 4:41 AM, Stefan Dösinger wrote:
Hi,
Here's an out-of-the-box/continent location I've brought up privately: Tanzania.
I'm in the process of halfway moving there, because of my girlfriend and because I kinda always liked the country since I first visited. It has some appeal especially re covid, but also some issues to deal with.
My home there is Moshi, on the foot of Mt Kilimanjaro. It's a relatively small town but has everything we need (Hotels/Venues, Bars, food). A nearby alternative location is Arusha. Both are serviced by the Kilimanjaro International Airport (JRO). Alternative airports are DAR and NBO, and if someone wants to vacation before/afterwards ZNZ.
Some of the advantages:
1) It is probably the least likely place to break out plans with unexpected new covid travel restrictions or a winter-induced greek letter surge. The country has done without any immigration restrictions since June 2020. There was never any real lockdown due to the economic structure, resilience of the young population, so it is very unlikely they suddenly start with lockdowns or closed borders 2 years into the pandemic.
2) We can aim for late in the year (i.e., Nov, start of Dec) without worrying about ugly weather. That time is also a relatively low season, so Hotels and flights should be cheap if we stay clear of xmas.
3) Tanzania is a welcoming and stable country that I consider worth supporting in a difficult time.
4) It'd be an exciting new location for many and you can go watch some lions after a company sponsored flight. Oh wait, I am writing the advantages here right?
Problems, from big to small:
1) The country has Anti-LGBT legislation on the books. While widely considered not an issue for visitors (unless you arrive at the airport wrapped in a rainbow flag) it'd be a dealbreaker in normal times. I have written an email to some people privately on this subject.
2) It is out of the way for pretty much everyone. Flight connections are good from Europe, the middle east and India, but from North America it is connection of two long-haul flights, with a transfer somewhere in Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Istanbul, Doha or Dubai
3) Visa requirements: Tourist and Business Visas are easy to get, but business visas cost $250, significantly raising the cost. I am already special friends with the immigration office, I can check with them if they consider a conference possible on a tourist Visa ($50, available on arrival). Both kinds of Visas are available online, no need to go to an embassy or mail your passport. Anyone flying to NBO will have to deal with Kenyan visa requirements too.
4) Covid / Healthcare situation: Until March the official covid policy was "prayer", but after the death of the previous president (officially a heart attack) it has been upgraded to "test" and "ask the WHO for vaccines". By and large sub-saharan Africa has done pretty well with covid, probably due to a young population that is used to diseases. I was in TZ from July to February without any vaccination and squeezing into a lot of bars and crowded busses and didn't have covid antibodies afterwards. I still highly recommend to get a vaccine before traveling there.
A negative PCR test no older than 72 hours is required to enter. If you arrive from a high incidence country (afaik India is on the list), you have to do an additional Antigen test on arrival. No quarantine, unless either test is positive.
Beyond covid: There are no mandated vaccinations. Yellow fever if you come from or spend more than 12 hours in a country with yellow fever. Transferring in NBO or ADD is hakuna matata, having a day of touristing in either place would require a vaccination to enter Tanzania. Malaria exists, but is not widespread in Moshi or Arusha due to the high elevation of the places, vector control and quick treatment of ill people. A while ago the WHO suggested taking Malerone as a prophylaxis.
A first step to organizing something there is that the immigration office finally grant my residence permit. The bureaucracy there is like a well oiled racecar firing on all cylinders that unfortunately only has one very low gear...
Stefan
Am 07.07.2021 um 20:40 schrieb Jeremy White <jwhite(a)codeweavers.com>:
Hi folks,
I've got a complex set of thoughts about future Wine conferences which I've discussed privately with some folks, and wanted to bring up publicly. I'm going to share an overview here, and then have another thread strictly about Wineconf 2022.
Arek Hiler has suggested that CodeWeavers host the X Developers Conference in Minnesota in September of 2022. That seems like a great idea to a lot of us. Our pitch to host that becomes stronger if we combine it with another conference, which creates a reason to combine Wineconf with XDC 2022. There also seems to be broad agreement that would be a good idea.
I'll start another thread on that, with some further complications.
However, working backwards, you come to the conclusion that our next Wine conference, if it's not that one in 2022, would probably be best accomplished in 2021.
Given the vaccination rates in Japan, that seems to preclude the plan we had in place, which was a Wineconf in Japan.
Alexandre and I have very little appetite for a virtual conference, which pretty much derailed the efforts to have a virtual conference in 2020 and suggests that trying to have a virtual conference in 2021 would not go well.
Given all that, there is some thought to try for a hybrid conference somewhere in Europe later this year. The vaccination rates have led to an opening in the US that has been joyful; the hope is that Europe will not be far behind.
I've discussed this with a range of folks, and the consensus seemed to be to wait and see. The Europeans are still quite nervous about that, and there is some concern about the variations, but they admit that perspectives may shift. I'm prepared to argue that a somewhat hurried, somewhat risky (i.e. with a real risk of cancellation) conference would still be worth it. I am the raging extrovert of the group, though.
At any rate, the thought was to wait one or two months and then see, at least for Wineconf 2021.
The full thought, then, is if our bid is accepted by XDC to have Wineconf 2022 in Minnesota, and then Japan in 2023. If our bid is not accepted, then I imagine Wineconf 2022 would be in Japan.
Other thoughts?
Cheers,
Jeremy
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Am 08.07.2021 um 16:56 schrieb Mandi Gagne (she/her) <mandi(a)codeweavers.com>:
On my first try, Delta is offering 20-hour flights (economy class, with one 4hr stop in Amsterdam) to Tanzania mid-November from MSP for under ~$1500USD.
;)
Skyscanner finds the same connection for €750; It is actually a KLM flight. It also helps to wiggle the days a bit. Not all airlines fly daily. In this quick try I picked Nov 11 - Nov 17. In contrast, for nov 10-17 the choices are terrible. You'd have a 28 hour layover in AMS. Other airlines that fly there: Turkish, Emirates, Qatar Airways, Kenya Airways (which will just connect you with KLM). Ethiopian Airlines (They are great, fancy new dreamliners, mostly empty during the off season so you can sleep in eco, except well Tigray... They do fly to IAD and JFK though, so you have to survive only a short hop with United). Air Tanzania used to fly to India and China with Dreamliners, but covid. RwandaAir has connections to London and Brussels, but no idea if they have codeshare with anyone who can get you there from MSP. But yeah, the travel time from north America is going to suck, no matter which airline.
participants (8)
-
Aaryaman Vasishta -
Dan Kegel -
Jana Schmid -
Jeremy White -
Mandi Gagne (she/her) -
Marcus Meissner -
Stefan Dösinger -
Stefan Dösinger