July 2006 - Wine-Devel - list.winehq.org

Testing the ftp part of wininet
by Paul Vriens July 11, 2006

July 11, 2006

Hi, I'm in the process of creating some tests for the ftp part of wininet. Would it be ok to use ftp.winehq.org for testing (FtpRename* FtpCreateDirectory* and friends)? The access will be with the anonymous account so no harm should be done? Another approach (or maybe both are needed) will be like we do in tests/http.c where we create our own server? Any thoughts? Cheers, Paul

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Re: AW: 0.9.17 and other issues
by Roland Kaeser July 11, 2006

July 11, 2006

Hey Thats not nice to write such things. (also the things in the previous mails). Sounds more as Microsoft than opensource. The argument that everybody has its own goals is one of the current biggest problems of the opensource community (as also readt in the editorial of the professional computer magazine C't (in german area)). This namly means also that there is no coordination. You should better make a step back and see the whole picture. There is whole issue at the opensource community and everybody should not just ask what the can do to improve their own environment. Its the goal to improve the whole environment. So just look over the horizon. What made the PC to that allround machine it is today? Sorry to tell You hat, meight be a shock for You: It weren't the developers or scientific users. It were the small business users who wanted to run their excel and word. So if anybody here wan'ts Linux to get success the Linux tools MUST take care about this users because this users will make the decision about the future of Linux. And they will not go out business just because the use of MS Office. They rater will forward support microsoft by using their desktops. Just THINK: If we can provide them a Linux desktop with their ms office. Will they not rater switch later completely to opensource? How will you show them the benefits of opensource when they just know their virus contaminated windows desktop and make the admins crazy. Roland ----- Ursprüngliche Mail ---- Von: Kuba Ober <kuba(a)mareimbrium.org> An: Roland Kaeser <roli8200(a)yahoo.de> Gesendet: Dienstag, den 11. Juli 2006, 15:40:19 Uhr Betreff: Re: AW: 0.9.17 and other issues > For sample: most of the people in the office depend on MS Office 2003 and > some other small apps. I also cannot understand this in case of the much > better openoffice. But they wan't their licensed office. It's their problem that they like to waste money on MS Office. I'd say good for them, let them bleed money. Maybe they'll go out of business. Out of the business gene pool -- so much the better for everyone. I wish them what they deserve. Cheers, Kuba

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0.9.17 and other issues
by Roland Kaeser July 11, 2006

July 11, 2006

Hello All By all respect of all the hard work the developers make all day. But to see the changes in 0.9.17 makes me really angry. Is everybody developing for the gamers? Whats the focus of the wine development? Currently I have many bugzilla bugs open to be fixed to get business applications running. And I can see while testing my 10 application with every release that nothing had changed on the business apps. All of them are the same unstable, or installable or some bugs else (see printing issues etc). I know thats cool developing gaming features but THAT CANNOT BE THE GOAL!!!!! In the offices I support as admin/sys engineer, we are all waiting for wine becomes stable enough to get the business apps running to switch to linux completely. But all I can see is that all the bugs are already there from release to release! But on every release I read some things about DirectX, Gaming Support etc. Whould it not be better just to fix the existing bugs before developping new ones? All the people I know WANT TO RUN THEIR BUSINESS APPS ON LINUX. Nobody wants run games. So my question again: WHATS THE FOCUS OF THE WINE DEVELOPMENT???? Roland Kaeser

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re: 0.9.17 and other issues
by Dan Kegel July 11, 2006

July 11, 2006

Roland Kaeser wrote: > [I have ten open bugs against business apps, > why aren't they fixed yet?] Well, let's see. Here are your bugs: http://bugs.winehq.org/buglist.cgi?emailreporter2=1&emailtype2=substring&em… It looks like there are a few things you could do to speed things up. Let's look at one of them: http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4665 is waiting for you to do the regression analysis to find out which patch caused the bug. (It's not that hard to use git-bisect, really. You should try it!) This is required because there is no freely downloadable demo for corel 9 anymore; if you want it fixed, you have to help here. http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4971 is waiting on you to provide more info. That's for Corel Draw 12, which does still have a freely downloadable demo, but you didn't add the 'download' keyword to the bug, so people looking for bugs to fix in downloadable demos wouldn't have found it. - Dan

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0.9.17 release tarball (sourceforge)
by darckness July 11, 2006

July 11, 2006

Just thought I'd point out that the source tarball up on sourceforge right now is corrupt/incomplete and will not work. http://ibiblio.org/pub/linux/system/emulators/wine/wine-0.9.17.tar.bz2 This one works. Darckness

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AW: 0.9.17 and other issues
by Roland Kaeser July 11, 2006

July 11, 2006

>the goal is to implement the win32 APIs on top of unix. this does >neither exclude the gamers nor the "appers". No that wasn't my idea. But remember the mission: Bring the people to Linux! It's just a matter of priorization. What brings more people to linux? You have right: The business apps. So what's more important? >so why not support that efford by donating some of your time or money >(e.g. your employers) to fix the problems? recently there where the >auditions for the summer of code - why not advocate then to make things >better? why not try crossover's wine? Sorry, I can just program Java but no C nor C++. And my salery is just enough to life. But as soon crossover supports my core required business apps I will surely buy one and will strongly recommend my circly of friends to do the same. Its also my opinion to support crossover for their work. But does it makes sense to buy a software which would currently be usesless for me? >you have many options - but instead you have chosen to whine to a list >of developers that spend their free time to improve the things they have >problems with; what do you think this will help? My most other freetime goes also into opensource projects or projects which promotes opensource (such as the yearly linux installation parties). It wasn't my intent to "whine" on the list but sometimes it required to give the people a soft kick in ass. >----- Ursprüngliche Mail ---- >Von: Christoph Frick <frick(a)sc-networks.de> >An: Roland Kaeser <roli8200(a)yahoo.de> >CC: wine-devel(a)winehq.org >Gesendet: Dienstag, den 11. Juli 2006, 13:11:29 Uhr >Betreff: Re: 0.9.17 and other issues > >On Tue, Jul 11, 2006 at 10:02:31AM +0000, Roland Kaeser wrote: > >> I know thats cool developing gaming features but THAT CANNOT BE THE >> GOAL!!!!! >> >>the goal is to implement the win32 APIs on top of unix. this does >>neither exclude the gamers nor the "appers". >> >> In the offices I support as admin/sys engineer, we are all waiting >> for wine becomes stable enough to get the business apps running to >> switch to linux completely. > >so why not support that efford by donating some of your time or money >(e.g. your employers) to fix the problems? recently there where the >auditions for the summer of code - why not advocate then to make things >better? why not try crossover's wine? > >you have many options - but instead you have chosen to whine to a list >of developers that spend their free time to improve the things they have >problems with; what do you think this will help? > > But on every release I read some things about DirectX, Gaming Support > etc. Whould it not be better just to fix the existing bugs before > developping new ones? All the people I know WANT TO RUN THEIR BUSINESS > APPS ON LINUX. Nobody wants run games. > >you state yourself, that lots of features (that are announce-worthy) are >for games and you think no one cares for games? do you think they are >done for the pure fun of it? have you actually checked the ChangeLog of >the current release? do you think all this changes in ole, msxml, &c. >dlls are done for the pure fun of it? if so - why not join the fun? > >-- >cu

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winehq.org slowness?
by Dan Kegel July 11, 2006

July 11, 2006

winehq.org, particularly bugs.winehq.org, seems slow lately. What's up? Is the culprit something simple like bandwidth, ram, or cpu?

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AW: 0.9.17 and other issues
by Roland Kaeser July 11, 2006

July 11, 2006

!-- DIV {margin:0px;}-->>If you want to get more business applications working in wine, you are >welcome to contribute to that yourself. Submit patches, or donate >money or software to developers. Write letters to businesses >registering your interest in having their applications run in wine or >Linux. Help do quality assurance; find and report bugs for these >applications, and write tests for wine to run. There are many things >you can do to help. The other developers are already helping with what >they do best. I'll do my best in supporting wine. I'm application maintainer of Corel Draw 9 and Railroad Tycoon (I know also a game). But I'm not a C Programmer and I can do this just small part time. But I try everything to get the people to linux and tell them that wine can run teir business apps on it but when they give me the apps (they need to run Linux) and I'm gonna test it, I regurlary get serious errors on that apps in case of very old bugs. For sample: most of the people in the office depend on MS Office 2003 and some other small apps. I also cannot understand this in case of the much better openoffice. But they wan't their licensed office. But currently its not installable in case of very old (and well documented) bugs in MSI. Or the other ones from Corel Draw: Printing is currently impossible in case of wrong processing of the generated print data in wine. Its also a very old bug. The same with copy/paste (ole32) or PDF export (msvcrt) in Corel Draw. There are a lot of other old issues which primarily prevents 90% of the required apps to run. If the developers whould start a work to clean up all the old bugs whould enable thousands of apps to work on wine. I think its not that hard work (for Your experienced programmers) but it should be done. Roland >----- Ursprüngliche Mail ---- >Von: n0dalus <n0dalus+wine(a)gmail.com> >An: Roland Kaeser <roli8200(a)yahoo.de> >CC: wine-devel(a)winehq.com >Gesendet: Dienstag, den 11. Juli 2006, 12:49:26 Uhr >Betreff: Re: 0.9.17 and other issues >On 7/11/06, Roland Kaeser <roli8200(a)yahoo.de> wrote: >> By all respect of all the hard work the developers make all day. But to see >> the changes in 0.9.17 makes me really angry. Is everybody developing for the >> gamers? Whats the focus of the wine development? Currently I have many >> bugzilla bugs open to be fixed to get business applications running. And I >> can see while testing my 10 application with every release that nothing had >> changed on the business apps. All of them are the same unstable, or >> installable or some bugs else (see printing issues etc). I know thats cool >> developing gaming features but THAT CANNOT BE THE GOAL!!!!! In the offices >> I support as admin/sys engineer, we are all waiting for wine becomes stable >> enough to get the business apps running to switch to linux completely. But >> all I can see is that all the bugs are already there from release to >> release! But on every release I read some things about DirectX, Gaming >> Support etc. Whould it not be better just to fix the existing bugs before >> developping new ones? All the people I know WANT TO RUN THEIR BUSINESS APPS >> ON LINUX. Nobody wants run games. So my question again: WHATS THE FOCUS OF >> THE WINE DEVELOPMENT???? >> > >Don't be angry because volunteer developers are doing what interests >them. You'll find that the paid wine (codeweavers) developers do a lot >of work to get business applications working under wine, while the >volunteer developers do whatever interests them at the time (often >games). These people have great skills to contribute to wine, even if >it's in an area you think should not be a goal. > > >n0dalus.

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AW: 0.9.17 and other issues
by Roland Kaeser July 11, 2006

July 11, 2006

Yes, that is noticable - it makes you so angry that you write some things in a style that could be a bit more polite. Sorry, wasn't my intention to attack the people. But understand my desperation at this time. I'm just very hardly waiting until all the required apps getting work to migrate a lot of people in the office and at home to linux But every hope from release to release that the time has come to do this was destroyed. >> All the people I know WANT TO RUN THEIR BUSINESS APPS ON LINUX. >You seem to be rather limited in the diversity of the people you know >;-) No, what I ment was that the people doesn't want to run games but instead their other small tools and toys (which where included in "Business Apps" >Just to give a little picture: Your neighbor likes to do gardening and >such. What you are complaining about would be similar to going over to >him and complaining that he was setting up a new flower bed while he >could be fixing your roof. Just think about it a bit..... Yes, I understand what You mean. But its not just for me (personally) it will help the whole comunity when getting this bugs fixed. I'm just a member of this community which tries their best to promote and support opensource as much as it possible. So I do a lot of my freetime in promoting opensource and developing opensource apps (as Java Programmer). And from my point of view, its also important to bring the people to Linux. And sometimes (specially in this case) I gonna fight for linux (in my sourrounding areas) and doesn't get adequate supply from the programmers front. >----- Ursprüngliche Mail ---- >Von: Joerg Mayer <jmayer(a)loplof.de> >An: Roland Kaeser <roli8200(a)yahoo.de> >Gesendet: Dienstag, den 11. Juli 2006, 13:53:43 Uhr >Betreff: Re: 0.9.17 and other issues >On Tue, Jul 11, 2006 at 10:02:31AM +0000, Roland Kaeser wrote: >> By all respect of all the hard work the developers make all day. >> But to see the changes in 0.9.17 makes me really angry. >Yes, that is noticable - it makes you so angry that you write some >>things in a style that could be a bit more polite. > >> Is everybody developing for the gamers? > >No, lots of stuff seems to go into installer/ole improvements as well. >Please check the commit-list for details. > >> Whats the focus of the wine development? > >There is no such focus - or there are several of them. It depends who >you ask: >- If you ask the people who do "game development", then you will get the > answer "to make games (better) playable". Most/all of them are people > who do this in their spare time without payment. From time to time, > these people find/fix some non-game-related-bugs. That's how you > profit from game development too. >- If you ask the people being (partly) payed by Codeweavers, then yes, > they work application focused. Of course, they work on the > applications that Codeweavers supports first, so if you want > preferential treatment for your applications, you should talk to > Codeweavers and pay them to work on your applications. > As a side effect though, currently every msi installer that doesn't > work seems to be considered a bug and gets preferential treatment too. >- Other people working on wine may have other goals (like > security/cryptography/webbrowsing). > >> All the people I know WANT TO RUN THEIR BUSINESS APPS ON LINUX. > >You seem to be rather limited in the diversity of the people you know >;-) > >> WHATS THE FOCUS OF THE WINE DEVELOPMENT???? > >If you ask 10 developers, you might end up with 11 or more answers. > >Again: 3D is being developed by volunteers who do what they want to do. >They rarely break something outside 3D and occasionally fix/implement >things outside 3D, so even non-games profit a bit from their work. > >Just to give a little picture: Your neighbor likes to do gardening and >such. What you are complaining about would be similar to going over to >him and complaining that he was setting up a new flower bed while he >could be fixing your roof. Just think about it a bit..... > >Regards > Joerg >-- >Joerg Mayer <jmayer(a)loplof.de> >We are stuck with technology when what we really want is just stuff that >works. Some say that should read Microsoft instead of technology.

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make installs recompiles files
by Joris Huizer July 11, 2006

July 11, 2006

Hello, I have this question: I noticed make install recompiles a number of files; it appears to happen in these directories: libs/wine dlls/uuid dlls/hhctrl.ocx dlls/shdocvw dlls/shlwapi It seems every source file of these directories gets recompiled. This happens with source of wine 0.9.17; it also happened in a few previous versions; I get the sources through cvs though it's gets updated on the day when the new wine version is released Any idea what's going wrong? regards, Joris

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