March 2009 - Wine-Devel - list.winehq.org

Re: Sufficient 1.2 release criterion: passing all tests on all platforms?
by Paul Vriens March 8, 2009

March 8, 2009

Dan Kegel wrote: > On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 5:05 PM, Paul Vriens <paul.vriens.wine(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> For that sole reason I started with installing a basic W2K box without >> servicepacks and patches. The last remaining few failures on my boxes are >> not the easiest ones but there are loads of (easier to fix) failures still >> out there. > > But golly, there are so few failures on XP/2003/vista/2008, > how 'bout we focus on those? > (Sorry, forgot to include list) That rpcrt4 is a tricky one as it only seems to be caused by a winetest compiled on test.winehq.org. Crosscompiling myself doesn't exhibit these issues. Maybe it's not only crosscompilation but other (yet unknown) factors. -- Cheers, Paul.

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Re: Sufficient 1.2 release criterion: passing all tests on all platforms?
by James Mckenzie March 8, 2009

March 8, 2009

Dan Kegel <dank(a)kegel.com> wrote on March 8th: > >It almost feels within our grasp for midyear... how 'bout it? I would like to add that these tests should also pass on the MacOSX platform as well. +1 to the idea, Dan. James McKenzie

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Re: [PATCH] [RFC] Make drive C always a
by James Mckenzie March 8, 2009

March 8, 2009

King InuYasha <ngompa13(a)gmail.com> wrote on March 8th: > >It is definitely possible for Drive C: to be a network share on all versions >of Windows starting from Windows 95. This does not exempt Windows >XP/Vista/2k3/2k8. In fact, a public library in Indiana that I used to go to >before I moved has all their machines set up this way. It takes a LOT of >tweaking to make it work properly, because some applications expect Windows >on Drive C:, but it is possible to do it. > I think this is how Fedex Office (formerly FedEx Kinkos) does it. I know that one of the local university's was also looking into this to prevent spread of viruses and to prevent 'file sharing'. This is absolutely possible and programs should support installation to a network share as C:. Windows can also be run this way. Rather than set C: as Fixed, Wine should be set so that C: can be a network share that is NOT removable. This will take effort. Sometimes the easy solution is not the correct one. James McKenzie

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Re: Fwd: [Wine] Re: The pros and cons of a wiki AppDB
by James Mckenzie March 8, 2009

March 8, 2009

David: Would you be willing to clean out the ash and trash that will show up with an open Wiki? I don't have the time to do this and it REALLY sounds like you are volunteering since you are pushing this issue so hard. See there are VALID reasons for doing things the way we do them. BTW, I am a maintainer of exactly ONE application. I've worked with this application and would really like to get one feature working. Why am I supporting that application? This is because the author refuses to release source code and he will not be building a Mac/Linux specific version. James McKenzie -----Original Message----- >From: David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> >Sent: Mar 8, 2009 6:59 AM >To: Wine Develop <wine-devel(a)winehq.org> >Subject: Fwd: [Wine] Re: The pros and cons of a wiki AppDB > >The current appdb system doesn't actually work. Example below. > > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >From: fcmartins <wineforum-user(a)winehq.org> >Date: 2009/3/8 >Subject: [Wine] Re: The pros and cons of a wiki AppDB >To: wine-users(a)winehq.org > > >Well, I can certainly confirm there is a barrier for drive by >submissions. As a matter of fact the barrier is even bigger than one >might anticipate (as an occasional user): >- sometime ago I submitted test data for a game. It was rejected with: >Please fill the "What does not work". I had written something like: >"I've done only initial gameplay". I believe the reply was implicitly >there, so IMO it was a unneeded barrier. Anyway, I tried to oblige >with a more explicit reply, and guess what: the submission was not >working: After submit, the form came back with the old data!! So, >another barrier. Furtermore, I sent an email to webmaster with the >issue, but never heard anything back. > >As you can imagine, this has lowered my willingness to submit test >data, and lack of updated info for newer versions of wine is THE major >problem with appdb. > >On the positive side, I had two comments in Sacred deleted by the >maintainer as a cleanup, and I felt the deletes were appropriate and >educative. > >Anyway, I think appdb mostly works and putting a wiki as a full >replacement would be a mistake. As it is, appdb has maybe a tiny bit >too much structure and bureaucracy, but going to the wiki and loose >all the structure would be silly. > >The UI and function of appdb is mostly quite good: I would look for >small tweaks lowering the barrier for contributions: some areas could >work like a wiki: the description, screenshots, and an always present >howto. The howto should be always editable and invite people to >improve it with their own tweaks, minimising the user having to go >through the comments to find a possibly inexistent needle. > >I would definitely look into a simpler form to submit test data, but >above all, I would look into having one of those wine appdb love days >(weeks) were test data is put up to date, e.g. for a forthcoming 1.2? > >

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Re: [Wine] The pros and cons of a wiki AppDB
by James Mckenzie March 8, 2009

March 8, 2009

-----Original Message----- >From: David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> >Sent: Mar 8, 2009 6:59 AM >To: wine-devel(a)winehq.org >Cc: Wine <wine-users(a)winehq.org> >Subject: Re: [Wine] The pros and cons of a wiki AppDB > >2009/3/7 IneedAname <wineappdb(a)googlemail.com>: >> On Sat, 7 Mar 2009 20:10:13 +0000 >> David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >>> Yep. That's why a wiki is nice. If you open it up to everyone to >>> contribute, you'll get bad stuff but you'll get good stuff you just >>> wouldn't get otherwise. It's a great format to capture that. > >> We would use the same system for edit rights that we use now. >> Make appDB account then ask to be a maintainer then you can edit the wiki page for that app. >> The wiki is only for application notes. >> Anyone can read the wiki history. >> Con: >> It would be very hard to set up. > > >Con: Becoming a maintainer is a pain in the backside. You won't get >useful drive-by contributions, and a lot of this stuff is drive-by. > Example? I've been a maintainer for over a year now. I've received two postings for the program. I don't think a lot of Linux and Mac users are using the program, or they are not experiencing problems. I will update the entry, now that you have reminded me to do so. > >> Do not cross post or you may up set people with power. > > >So when we're talking about a service to users, you're saying "God >forbid we ask the users"? > We are discussing what is a development issue. We really don't need to confuse users with this. Besides, I don't think most users really care if we are using a Wiki or a Web Application to record what is hsppening with Applications and their ability to run on Wine. James McKenzie > >- d. >

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Fwd: [Wine] Re: The pros and cons of a wiki AppDB
by David Gerard March 8, 2009

March 8, 2009

The current appdb system doesn't actually work. Example below. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: fcmartins <wineforum-user(a)winehq.org> Date: 2009/3/8 Subject: [Wine] Re: The pros and cons of a wiki AppDB To: wine-users(a)winehq.org Well, I can certainly confirm there is a barrier for drive by submissions. As a matter of fact the barrier is even bigger than one might anticipate (as an occasional user): - sometime ago I submitted test data for a game. It was rejected with: Please fill the "What does not work". I had written something like: "I've done only initial gameplay". I believe the reply was implicitly there, so IMO it was a unneeded barrier. Anyway, I tried to oblige with a more explicit reply, and guess what: the submission was not working: After submit, the form came back with the old data!! So, another barrier. Furtermore, I sent an email to webmaster with the issue, but never heard anything back. As you can imagine, this has lowered my willingness to submit test data, and lack of updated info for newer versions of wine is THE major problem with appdb. On the positive side, I had two comments in Sacred deleted by the maintainer as a cleanup, and I felt the deletes were appropriate and educative. Anyway, I think appdb mostly works and putting a wiki as a full replacement would be a mistake. As it is, appdb has maybe a tiny bit too much structure and bureaucracy, but going to the wiki and loose all the structure would be silly. The UI and function of appdb is mostly quite good: I would look for small tweaks lowering the barrier for contributions: some areas could work like a wiki: the description, screenshots, and an always present howto. The howto should be always editable and invite people to improve it with their own tweaks, minimising the user having to go through the comments to find a possibly inexistent needle. I would definitely look into a simpler form to submit test data, but above all, I would look into having one of those wine appdb love days (weeks) were test data is put up to date, e.g. for a forthcoming 1.2?

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The pros and cons of a wiki AppDB
by David Gerard March 8, 2009

March 8, 2009

2009/3/7 Rosanne DiMesio <dimesio(a)earthlink.net>: > I can think of one possible benefit. There are a lot of apps without maintainers, and there might be users of those apps who would be willing take a few minutes to post bits of useful information in a wiki, but don't want the responsibility of being a maintainer. Sure, they could just post info in a comment, but user comments are buried at the bottom of the page and not in a useful order for finding information quickly. The same goes for comments in test reports--I've found information on needed tweaks buried several reports down from the most recent. Yep. That's why a wiki is nice. If you open it up to everyone to contribute, you'll get bad stuff but you'll get good stuff you just wouldn't get otherwise. It's a great format to capture that. Being an app maintainer is too much like bureaucracy. It makes drive-by reports way too hard. Keep it simple, you'll get more information and therefore more good information. (Disclaimer: I'm a Wikipedia admin and press volunteer, so I think of wikis as good default solutions for lots of things ;-) What do users want from the AppDB? They want to know how well the app works with Wine, and what tweaks are needed to get it working. I'd be tempted to just go and start a wiki on the subject myself, but it'd be duplicated effort with the present AppDB. So I'd rather try to make a case for it. The present AppDB is lacking in many ways that I think a wiki would help with. I'm cc'ing this to wine-users - since I'd need to make a case for the wiki to developers, but it's actually *for* the users. Users: what's right and wrong with the AppDB? How useful is it for you? What would make it better? - d.

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Re: [Wine] The pros and cons of a wiki AppDB
by Ben Klein March 8, 2009

March 8, 2009

2009/3/8 Vincent Weber <weber.vincent(a)gmail.com>: > If it aint broken then don't fix it. Please use the "Reply to all" feature so your mail goes back to the mailing list and not just to me :)

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Re: installing ie6 and directX
by Ben Klein March 8, 2009

March 8, 2009

2009/3/8 Vincent Weber <weber.vincent(a)gmail.com>: > Why do you want to install DirectX on Wine? Wine has DirectX support. :S Some games/apps want d3dx9_## DLLs, which are currently stubs in Wine. They are distributed with the DirectX runtime redist, but that doesn't mean you want full DirectX installed. > You don't need to use IE to download DirectX. Windows uses ActiveX in IE to > update itself. You can also just download DirectX directly from the > internet. One word: winetricks.

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Re: AppDB entries are being delete without contacting maintainer by Rozanne
by James Mckenzie March 8, 2009

March 8, 2009

Austin English <austinenglish(a)gmail.com> wrote on March 6: >Sent: Mar 6, 2009 1:42 PM >To: Klaus Layer <klaus.layer(a)gmx.de>, Rosanne DiMesio <dimesio(a)earthlink.net> >Cc: Wine Develop <wine-devel(a)winehq.org> >Subject: Re: AppDB entries are being delete without contacting maintainer by Rozanne > >On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 2:36 PM, Klaus Layer <klaus.layer(a)gmx.de> wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> since several months a user Rozanne is changing AppDB entries without >> contacting the maintainers. Most of the changes so far were minor changes. >> But today I was informed that Rozanne just deleted an entry which was >> maintained by me. According to the email I received, there were duplicated >> entries for the programm Mapsource. I regard deleting entries from Appdb >> without giving the maintainer a chance to backup what they maintained a >> *very* unfriendly act. I would have merged the two entries under one to save >> the valuable information users added to AppDB. Just deleting entries from >> AppDB, deletes information the wine community collected to support using >> wine. Users spent a lot of time and just deleting their work is *not* >> acceptable. >> >> Can someone of the adminstrators of AppDB please make sure that Rozanne stops >> deleting entries from AppDB without informing the maintainers before. I would >> expect to be informed about such an action before and that I as a maintainer >> have the right to discuss was is being delete and what not. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Klaus >> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: AppDB <appdb-noreply(a)winehq.org> >> To: appdb-noreply(a)winehq.org >> Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 08:42:12 -0600 >> Subject: [AppDB] Submitter screenshots deleted >> >> Submitter screenshots deleted >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> The screenshots you submitted for MapSource 6.13.7 have been deleted because MapSource 6.13.7 was deleted. >> The action was performed by Rosanne >> Reasons given >> The parent entry was deleted. The reason given for that deletion was: >> Duplicate entry >> >> Best regards. >> The AppDB team >> http://appdb.winehq.org/ >> >> >> If you don't want to receive any other e-mail, please change your preferences: >> http://appdb.winehq.org/preferences.php >> >> >> >> > >Well, Rozanne _is_ an AppDB administrator, hence the permission to >delete those entries. > >That said, yes, notice should be given. > Also, please be aware that entries referring to ReactOS, PlayonLinux and Crossover are also being removed. The latter is actually biting the hand that feeds us. CodeWeavers, the producers of Crossover, host WineHQ. What might be a better idea is to state: "This program has been shown to work better with Crossover, please visit their web site for more details. Please be aware that Crossover is a commercial product whose developers also support Wine." James McKenzie

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