Re: po: Revise Russian translation
Looks good. I especially like changes like these: --- -msgstr "Пожалуйста, выберите файл." +msgstr "Выберите файл." ---
Nikolay Sivov <bunglehead(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Looks good. I especially like changes like these:
--- -msgstr "Пожалуйста, выберите файл." +msgstr "Выберите файл."
No, this doesn't match the original english text. Some other translations don't match either, for instance
"This large number of copies is not supported by your printer.\n" "Please enter a value between 1 and %d." msgstr "" -"Такое большое количество копий не может быть напечатано вашим принтером.\n" +"Такое большое количество копий не может быть напечатано этим принтером.\n"
-- Dmitry.
On 4/5/2014 18:17, Dmitry Timoshkov wrote:
Nikolay Sivov <bunglehead(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Looks good. I especially like changes like these:
--- -msgstr "Пожалуйста, выберите файл." +msgstr "Выберите файл." No, this doesn't match the original english text. I matches okay and sounds better. Verb form is already in plural which makes 'please' redundant. Same thing as for 'Вы' garbage when used to address one person. Some other translations don't match either, for instance
"This large number of copies is not supported by your printer.\n" "Please enter a value between 1 and %d." msgstr "" -"Такое большое количество копий не может быть напечатано вашим принтером.\n" +"Такое большое количество копий не может быть напечатано этим принтером.\n"
What you mean? 'your' translated literally is out of place here. Article or a possessive pronoun before a noun is not a requirement in Russian, as I'm sure you know. In this particular phase it would be enough to say 'не поддерживается принтером'. No need to literally match English variant.
Nikolay Sivov <bunglehead(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Looks good. I especially like changes like these:
--- -msgstr "Пожалуйста, выберите файл." +msgstr "Выберите файл." No, this doesn't match the original english text. I matches okay and sounds better. Verb form is already in plural which makes 'please' redundant.
'Please' is never redundant, please don't invent new rules. Or should I omit 'please' here?
Same thing as for 'Вы' garbage when used to address one person.
Oh, probably one should ask how well did you learn Russian in school.
Some other translations don't match either, for instance
"This large number of copies is not supported by your printer.\n" "Please enter a value between 1 and %d." msgstr "" -"Такое большое количество копий не может быть напечатано вашим принтером.\n" +"Такое большое количество копий не может быть напечатано этим принтером.\n"
What you mean? 'your' translated literally is out of place here. Article or a possessive pronoun before a noun is not a requirement in Russian, as I'm sure you know. In this particular phase it would be enough to say 'не поддерживается принтером'. No need to literally match English variant.
'your printer' and 'this printer' have two distinct and different meanings, please avoid inventing new traslation rules unless you have a degree in this area. -- Dmitry.
On 4/6/2014 06:55, Dmitry Timoshkov wrote:
Nikolay Sivov <bunglehead(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Looks good. I especially like changes like these:
--- -msgstr "Пожалуйста, выберите файл." +msgstr "Выберите файл." No, this doesn't match the original english text. I matches okay and sounds better. Verb form is already in plural which makes 'please' redundant. 'Please' is never redundant, please don't invent new rules. Or should I omit 'please' here? No, you can't. There's no way to express it in English, don't be silly. Suggested form is shorter and has exactly same meaning - politely asks to do something.
Same thing as for 'Вы' garbage when used to address one person. Oh, probably one should ask how well did you learn Russian in school. You sure you got what I mean?
Some other translations don't match either, for instance
"This large number of copies is not supported by your printer.\n" "Please enter a value between 1 and %d." msgstr "" -"Такое большое количество копий не может быть напечатано вашим принтером.\n" +"Такое большое количество копий не может быть напечатано этим принтером.\n"
What you mean? 'your' translated literally is out of place here. Article or a possessive pronoun before a noun is not a requirement in Russian, as I'm sure you know. In this particular phase it would be enough to say 'не поддерживается принтером'. No need to literally match English variant. 'your printer' and 'this printer' have two distinct and different meanings, please avoid inventing new traslation rules unless you have a degree in this area. Could we talk about this particular case instead of making generalizations or discussing degrees? Thing is distinction is not important here, 'your' exists in English variant because it has to.
Nikolay Sivov <bunglehead(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Looks good. I especially like changes like these:
--- -msgstr "Пожалуйста, выберите файл." +msgstr "Выберите файл." No, this doesn't match the original english text. I matches okay and sounds better. Verb form is already in plural which makes 'please' redundant. 'Please' is never redundant, please don't invent new rules. Or should I omit 'please' here? No, you can't. There's no way to express it in English, don't be silly. Suggested form is shorter and has exactly same meaning - politely asks to do something.
'Please select a file' and 'Select a file' have cleary different emotional meaning both in english and in russian. If you would like to omit 'please' in russian translations you need to correct english version first. Why for instance in the same translation update "SCANNING... Please Wait" still contains 'пожалуйста' (please) then? There are other occurances of 'please' all over the place, are you suggesting to remove them all as well in the russian translation? What's so special about russian language that it should sound rude while the original text intentionally has 'please'?
Same thing as for 'Вы' garbage when used to address one person. Oh, probably one should ask how well did you learn Russian in school. You sure you got what I mean?
I think I did, you could always elaborate of course.
Some other translations don't match either, for instance
"This large number of copies is not supported by your printer.\n" "Please enter a value between 1 and %d." msgstr "" -"Такое большое количество копий не может быть напечатано вашим принтером.\n" +"Такое большое количество копий не может быть напечатано этим принтером.\n"
What you mean? 'your' translated literally is out of place here. Article or a possessive pronoun before a noun is not a requirement in Russian, as I'm sure you know. In this particular phase it would be enough to say 'не поддерживается принтером'. No need to literally match English variant. 'your printer' and 'this printer' have two distinct and different meanings, please avoid inventing new traslation rules unless you have a degree in this area. Could we talk about this particular case instead of making generalizations or discussing degrees? Thing is distinction is not important here, 'your' exists in English variant because it has to.
If it's not important then there is nothing to discuss and "fix". In general it's important IMHO to keep translated text match its english version as much as possible. One of the reasons is to avoid other translators from fixing the mismatches, another is to really keep the UI consistent in different languages. -- Dmitry.
Dmitry Timoshkov wrote:
In general it's important IMHO to keep translated text match its english version as much as possible. One of the reasons is to avoid other translators from fixing the mismatches, another is to really keep the UI consistent in different languages.
The thing that makes these translations difficult is that this is not so easy when translating Russian into English. A sentence like: "Выберите принтер" could be "Choose your printer" or "Choose a printer" in English, depending on the context. This is partially a peculiarity of English (and other Western-European languages) and partially because in Russian people tend to use possessive pronouns less in general. If you would always try to keep exact translations, it would mean that software which is originally Russian would likely have different texts than software which is originally in English and then translated to Russian. I think Nikolay's idea is to avoid this difference. The other way around, you can translate "мне нравится" to English every time as "for me it is nice" or "by me it is liked", but English speakers would only consider "I like" a proper translation. I also understand the reasons why one would still try to maintain the original as much as possible however, so I would try to find a common guideline on how to deal with this for the Russian translation (or for all Slavic translations). Best regards, Julius
On 4/6/2014 09:12, Dmitry Timoshkov wrote:
Nikolay Sivov <bunglehead(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Looks good. I especially like changes like these:
--- -msgstr "Пожалуйста, выберите файл." +msgstr "Выберите файл." No, this doesn't match the original english text. I matches okay and sounds better. Verb form is already in plural which makes 'please' redundant. 'Please' is never redundant, please don't invent new rules. Or should I omit 'please' here? No, you can't. There's no way to express it in English, don't be silly. Suggested form is shorter and has exactly same meaning - politely asks to do something. 'Please select a file' and 'Select a file' have cleary different emotional meaning both in english and in russian. If you would like to omit 'please' in russian translations you need to correct english version first. English version is fine, I explained below. Why for instance in the same translation update "SCANNING... Please Wait" still contains 'пожалуйста' (please) then? There are other occurances of 'please' all over the place, are you suggesting to remove them all as well in the russian translation? Not necessary, it's not all-or-nothing rule. Each case should be considered separately, for "SCANNING.." one it's better to keep 'please' translated, because otherwise it becomes too short and feels incomplete (no, same doesn't apply for select a file). What's so special about russian language that it should sound rude while the original text intentionally has 'please'? I never said it should. It's not something unique to Russian language, French has same thing too - ability to address a single person respectfully with a verb form also used for plural form for you/вы/vous. There's two ways to translate 'select' in imperative way - "выбери" or "выберите". First variant is what you call rude, and I'm not suggesting to use it. Second variant is respectful enough to skip 'please'. Some other translations don't match either, for instance
"This large number of copies is not supported by your printer.\n" "Please enter a value between 1 and %d." msgstr "" -"Такое большое количество копий не может быть напечатано вашим принтером.\n" +"Такое большое количество копий не может быть напечатано этим принтером.\n"
What you mean? 'your' translated literally is out of place here. Article or a possessive pronoun before a noun is not a requirement in Russian, as I'm sure you know. In this particular phase it would be enough to say 'не поддерживается принтером'. No need to literally match English variant. 'your printer' and 'this printer' have two distinct and different meanings, please avoid inventing new traslation rules unless you have a degree in this area. Could we talk about this particular case instead of making generalizations or discussing degrees? Thing is distinction is not important here, 'your' exists in English variant because it has to. If it's not important then there is nothing to discuss and "fix".
In general it's important IMHO to keep translated text match its english version as much as possible. One of the reasons is to avoid other translators from fixing the mismatches, another is to really keep the UI consistent in different languages. Julius' answer covers that part.
Nikolay Sivov <bunglehead(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Why for instance in the same translation update "SCANNING... Please Wait" still contains 'пожалуйста' (please) then? There are other occurances of 'please' all over the place, are you suggesting to remove them all as well in the russian translation? Not necessary, it's not all-or-nothing rule. Each case should be considered separately, for "SCANNING.." one it's better to keep 'please' translated, because otherwise it becomes too short and feels incomplete (no, same doesn't apply for select a file).
You forgot to add some details, for instance explain why it doen't apply for 'select a file', but does apply to 'please wait'. [unrelated speculations are skipped] -- Dmitry.
On 4/6/2014 19:43, Dmitry Timoshkov wrote:
Nikolay Sivov <bunglehead(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Why for instance in the same translation update "SCANNING... Please Wait" still contains 'пожалуйста' (please) then? There are other occurances of 'please' all over the place, are you suggesting to remove them all as well in the russian translation? Not necessary, it's not all-or-nothing rule. Each case should be considered separately, for "SCANNING.." one it's better to keep 'please' translated, because otherwise it becomes too short and feels incomplete (no, same doesn't apply for select a file). You forgot to add some details, for instance explain why it doen't apply for 'select a file', but does apply to 'please wait'. I already explained why we don't need it for 'select a file', several times. For "SCANNING.." line, if you're really interested about that one, it's malformed in a first place. Much better translation would be "Подождите, идет сканирование", or something like that, but because of specific format of original string we can't do that without changing original line. We could remove 'please' part from it too, but as I said it will make it unpleasantly short and incomplete.Again that's not a good example to compare to.
[unrelated speculations are skipped]
2014.04.06 05:55, Dmitry Timoshkov rašė:
Nikolay Sivov <bunglehead(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Looks good. I especially like changes like these:
--- -msgstr "Пожалуйста, выберите файл." +msgstr "Выберите файл." No, this doesn't match the original english text. I matches okay and sounds better. Verb form is already in plural which makes 'please' redundant.
'Please' is never redundant, please don't invent new rules. Or should I omit 'please' here?
Hello, according to the Microsoft Russian Style Guide [1] (p. 41): "The word "please" is often used in English sentences. In Russian equivalents the literate translation "пожалуйста" is out of place. Do not overuse it." [1] http://www.microsoft.com/Language/en-US/StyleGuides.aspx
participants (4)
-
Aurimas Fišeras -
Dmitry Timoshkov -
Julius Schwartzenberg -
Nikolay Sivov