Instructions for using JACK with with Wine's ALSA output on wiki: reverted twice
Recently user 'falktx' posted instructions on the Sound wiki page on how to set up an ALSA to JACK bridge that would work with Wine. He did this at the suggestion of aeikum: 14:45 <@aeikum> okay. so it is possible to get this working correctly. that's good to know 14:46 < falktx> I can make a small package with my setup scripts 14:47 <@aeikum> that might be handy to put up on the sound wiki page http://wiki.winehq.org/Sound If you look at the page edit history, you'll see the content has been reverted twice by Vitaliy without comment: http://wiki.winehq.org/Sound?action=info Please can you (wine developers) clarify your position on this. It seems to be useful content for the wiki that will benefit a number of users and I can see no justification for deleting it. It could be argued it clutters up the Sound wiki page, in which case it should be moved to a separate page linked to from there. Thank you, Alex
On 03/11/2012 06:31 AM, Alex Bradbury wrote:
Recently user 'falktx' posted instructions on the Sound wiki page on how to set up an ALSA to JACK bridge that would work with Wine. He did this at the suggestion of aeikum:
14:45<@aeikum> okay. so it is possible to get this working correctly. that's good to know 14:46< falktx> I can make a small package with my setup scripts 14:47<@aeikum> that might be handy to put up on the sound wiki page http://wiki.winehq.org/Sound
If you look at the page edit history, you'll see the content has been reverted twice by Vitaliy without comment: http://wiki.winehq.org/Sound?action=info
Please can you (wine developers) clarify your position on this. It seems to be useful content for the wiki that will benefit a number of users and I can see no justification for deleting it. It could be argued it clutters up the Sound wiki page, in which case it should be moved to a separate page linked to from there.
That information simply does not belong on Wine wiki. It talks about making Jack work as Alsa sound device. This has nothing to do with Wine in particular. Especially that he posted the link to an external wiki which has most of this information. Let me make it a bit more clear, Wine is huge and it uses lots and lots of system libraries, packages, subsystems, features, and so on. Unless some information directly related to Wine it should not be posted on the Wine wiki. Or we'll end up with a huge collection of generic Linux/OS X/BSD/ARM/etc articles that will rot over time. Vitaliy.
Vitaliy, On Sun, Mar 11, 2012 at 10:15:40AM -0600, Vitaliy Margolen wrote:
That information simply does not belong on Wine wiki. It talks about making Jack work as Alsa sound device. This has nothing to do with Wine in particular. Especially that he posted the link to an external wiki which has most of this information.
Let me make it a bit more clear, Wine is huge and it uses lots and lots of system libraries, packages, subsystems, features, and so on. Unless some information directly related to Wine it should not be posted on the Wine wiki. Or we'll end up with a huge collection of generic Linux/OS X/BSD/ARM/etc articles that will rot over time.
Next time you're going to delete an entire half of a Wiki page that someone clearly cares about and maintains (see the edit history), please contact that someone first so we can discuss what should be done about the information that doesn't belong there. I agree that the Wiki isn't the best place for that code, and I was planning on getting around to fixing it. In the meantime, I had linked to that code in Bug 29294 and now it's not there for users to find. There is no emergency here that could not have been better resolved by a discussion over email. The fact that you've been specifically called out in two threads in one weekend might be a hint that it is _your_ behavior that is inappropriate. Andrew
On 03/12/2012 06:11 AM, Andrew Eikum wrote:
Vitaliy,
On Sun, Mar 11, 2012 at 10:15:40AM -0600, Vitaliy Margolen wrote:
That information simply does not belong on Wine wiki. It talks about making Jack work as Alsa sound device. This has nothing to do with Wine in particular. Especially that he posted the link to an external wiki which has most of this information.
Let me make it a bit more clear, Wine is huge and it uses lots and lots of system libraries, packages, subsystems, features, and so on. Unless some information directly related to Wine it should not be posted on the Wine wiki. Or we'll end up with a huge collection of generic Linux/OS X/BSD/ARM/etc articles that will rot over time.
Next time you're going to delete an entire half of a Wiki page that someone clearly cares about and maintains (see the edit history), please contact that someone first so we can discuss what should be done about the information that doesn't belong there. Sorry, but I'm not going to do that. If you think that some, not Wine related, information belongs on Wine wiki, you better bring that question here. We already shot down a lot of attempts to host all sort of junk, including win API documentation. Which, if anything, more relates to Wine then how to make one sound device work like another sound device.
I agree that the Wiki isn't the best place for that code, and I was planning on getting around to fixing it. In the meantime, I had linked to that code in Bug 29294 and now it's not there for users to find. There is no emergency here that could not have been better resolved by a discussion over email. What prevent you from attaching that code to the bug that needs it? And discussion with whom? That person has no wiki personal page, nor was he using a known nik associated with an e-mail.
The fact that you've been specifically called out in two threads in one weekend might be a hint that it is _your_ behavior that is inappropriate. I've been called out in more then two threads, that doesn't bother me. That just an indication that no one else wants to do this work.
Vitaliy.
On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 07:18:39AM -0600, Vitaliy Margolen wrote:
On 03/12/2012 06:11 AM, Andrew Eikum wrote:
On Sun, Mar 11, 2012 at 10:15:40AM -0600, Vitaliy Margolen wrote:
That information simply does not belong on Wine wiki. It talks about making Jack work as Alsa sound device. This has nothing to do with Wine in particular. Especially that he posted the link to an external wiki which has most of this information.
Let me make it a bit more clear, Wine is huge and it uses lots and lots of system libraries, packages, subsystems, features, and so on. Unless some information directly related to Wine it should not be posted on the Wine wiki. Or we'll end up with a huge collection of generic Linux/OS X/BSD/ARM/etc articles that will rot over time.
Next time you're going to delete an entire half of a Wiki page that someone clearly cares about and maintains (see the edit history), please contact that someone first so we can discuss what should be done about the information that doesn't belong there. Sorry, but I'm not going to do that. If you think that some, not Wine related, information belongs on Wine wiki, you better bring that question here. We already shot down a lot of attempts to host all sort of junk, including win API documentation. Which, if anything, more relates to Wine then how to make one sound device work like another sound device.
So host the content elsewhere and link to it. Revert wars on the Wiki are not going to accomplish anything or make anybody happy. If you can't or aren't willing to do that, then email someone who cares about the page and ask them to clean it up. There are more options here than "delete the content without comment." See also: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Assume_good_faith> We used to have JACK support, and we removed it. It makes sense to have some sort of fallback for JACK users, even if it's not supported. A very knowledgeable user found a setup that works well for him and offered that information to us. Rather than act like a jerk and tell him to go elsewhere with his information, I chose to take him up on his offer. If it doesn't belong on the Wiki in exactly that form, then let's work to find a better way to give that information to users.
I agree that the Wiki isn't the best place for that code, and I was planning on getting around to fixing it. In the meantime, I had linked to that code in Bug 29294 and now it's not there for users to find. There is no emergency here that could not have been better resolved by a discussion over email. What prevent you from attaching that code to the bug that needs it? And discussion with whom? That person has no wiki personal page, nor was he using a known nik associated with an e-mail.
If you browse the edit history for that page, you'll see that I edit it pretty frequently. Maybe I have an opinion? No lives are going to be lost if some inappropriate data is left on the Wiki for a weekend.
The fact that you've been specifically called out in two threads in one weekend might be a hint that it is _your_ behavior that is inappropriate. I've been called out in more then two threads, that doesn't bother me. That just an indication that no one else wants to do this work.
Or that no one wants this work done. Andrew
participants (3)
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Alex Bradbury -
Andrew Eikum -
Vitaliy Margolen