Re: winecfg: add note about 32 bit prefixes to dialog

[Stefan Dösinger]

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Hi,

I think making this visible on some way is a good idea. I have
wondered about this myself, and so have many other users.

> Context behind this:  To run Simcity 2000 I change my Wine prefix 
> settings to mimic NT 3.5 so that it uses a different file chooser
> dialog which doesn't crash the game (for whatever reason).  This
> last time installing things I was confused about why I didn't see
> the option for NT 3.5 until slackner reminded me on IRC that I need
> a 32 bit prefix to have that option.
Somewhat offtopic to your patch: Is this a known bug in the game? Does
it crash in Windows XP or newer unless you set Win9x or Win NT
compatibility? It may be a good idea to investigate the actual crash.

> So, I thought it might be useful if the dialog could have a note 
> explaining why those options aren't there if you're running from a
> 64 bit prefix -- and thus this patch.  To make room for the text I
> made the applications Listbox 20 pixels shorter.
- From a user interface point of view, what do you think about adding
those old Windows versions in the listbox, maybe with a different text
like "Windows 98 not available in 64 bit", and programming the code to
set the dropdown field back to the last setting if the user decides to
choose one of those settings? Or instead of having the modified text,
pop up an error box and set the setting back.


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winecfg: add note about 32 bit prefixes to dialog

[Andrew Eikum]

On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 11:35:40PM +0100, Stefan Dösinger wrote:
> I think making this visible on some way is a good idea. I have
> wondered about this myself, and so have many other users.
> 

I also like the idea, but I'm not sure the text is the right way to do
it.

> > Context behind this:  To run Simcity 2000 I change my Wine prefix 
> > settings to mimic NT 3.5 so that it uses a different file chooser
> > dialog which doesn't crash the game (for whatever reason).  This
> > last time installing things I was confused about why I didn't see
> > the option for NT 3.5 until slackner reminded me on IRC that I need
> > a 32 bit prefix to have that option.
> Somewhat offtopic to your patch: Is this a known bug in the game? Does
> it crash in Windows XP or newer unless you set Win9x or Win NT
> compatibility? It may be a good idea to investigate the actual crash.
> 

It's a very old bug that as far as I know hasn't been diagnosed. I
don't know if it's been tested on Windows.

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12714

> > So, I thought it might be useful if the dialog could have a note 
> > explaining why those options aren't there if you're running from a
> > 64 bit prefix -- and thus this patch.  To make room for the text I
> > made the applications Listbox 20 pixels shorter.
> - From a user interface point of view, what do you think about adding
> those old Windows versions in the listbox, maybe with a different text
> like "Windows 98 not available in 64 bit", and programming the code to
> set the dropdown field back to the last setting if the user decides to
> choose one of those settings? Or instead of having the modified text,
> pop up an error box and set the setting back.
> 

Something like this seems good. Maybe "Windows 98 (32-bit only)",
along with an error popup explaining that the current prefix is 64-bit
and including instructions for how to create a 32-bit prefix.

Andrew

winecfg: add note about 32 bit prefixes to dialog

[Andrew Eikum]

On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 10:21:43AM -0500, Andrew Eikum wrote:
> > > So, I thought it might be useful if the dialog could have a note 
> > > explaining why those options aren't there if you're running from a
> > > 64 bit prefix -- and thus this patch.  To make room for the text I
> > > made the applications Listbox 20 pixels shorter.
> > - From a user interface point of view, what do you think about adding
> > those old Windows versions in the listbox, maybe with a different text
> > like "Windows 98 not available in 64 bit", and programming the code to
> > set the dropdown field back to the last setting if the user decides to
> > choose one of those settings? Or instead of having the modified text,
> > pop up an error box and set the setting back.
> > 
> 
> Something like this seems good. Maybe "Windows 98 (32-bit only)",
> along with an error popup explaining that the current prefix is 64-bit
> and including instructions for how to create a 32-bit prefix.
> 

Some example popup text:

"""
    This Wine prefix is built to support 64-bit applications. Because
    the Windows version you selected does not support 64-bit
    applications, this prefix cannot be configured to mimic that version
    of Windows.

    To create a 32-bit prefix, please delete your existing prefix and
    create a new Wine prefix with WINEARCH=win32. For example:

    rm -rf <automatically insert wineprefix path here>
    WINEARCH=win32 wine winecfg

    Note that this will remove any applications and files in your
    current Wine prefix, and that 64-bit applications will not be
    supported in the new prefix. You may use WINEPREFIX to set an
    alternate prefix path.
"""

Andrew

winecfg: add note about 32 bit prefixes to dialog

[Rosanne DiMesio]

On Wed, 25 Mar 2015 10:55:34 -0500
Andrew Eikum <aeikum(a)codeweavers.com> wrote:
> Some example popup text:
>
> """
>     This Wine prefix is built to support 64-bit applications. Because
>     the Windows version you selected does not support 64-bit
>     applications, this prefix cannot be configured to mimic that version
>     of Windows.
>
> To create a 32-bit prefix, please delete your existing prefix and
>     create a new Wine prefix with WINEARCH=win32. For example:
>
> rm -rf <automatically insert wineprefix path here>
>     WINEARCH=win32 wine winecfg
>
> Note that this will remove any applications and files in your
>     current Wine prefix, and that 64-bit applications will not be
>     supported in the new prefix. You may use WINEPREFIX to set an
>     alternate prefix path.
> """

I like the idea of a popup message, but that one's awfully long, and telling users to delete their existing wineprefix is not necessary, and potentially harmful, if they don't read carefully enough. IMO, it would be better to refer users to the FAQ for actual instructions on how to create a 32 bit wineprefix.

winecfg: add note about 32 bit prefixes to dialog

[Jason Overland]

On 03/24/2015 03:35 PM, Stefan Dösinger wrote:
>> Context behind this:  To run Simcity 2000 I change my Wine prefix
>> settings to mimic NT 3.5 so that it uses a different file chooser
>> dialog which doesn't crash the game (for whatever reason).  This
>> last time installing things I was confused about why I didn't see
>> the option for NT 3.5 until slackner reminded me on IRC that I need
>> a 32 bit prefix to have that option.
> Somewhat offtopic to your patch: Is this a known bug in the game? Does
> it crash in Windows XP or newer unless you set Win9x or Win NT
> compatibility? It may be a good idea to investigate the actual crash.

It's fine in Windows XP without any compatibility settings, but it silently crashes in Windows 7.  This is something I'd like to investigate and I've dug a bit into the comdlg32 code but I'm not really sure where to look.  It seems to be related to a "custom hook" on file dialogs which is something I'm not familiar with.  Since the crash is a null reference I'm wondering if there's a good way to look for nulls that Wine could be passing to the game.  The game appears to use MFC file dialog classes so I'm wondering if the bug is in how the game is using them or in actual MFC code (or Wine/Windows).
>
>> So, I thought it might be useful if the dialog could have a note
>> explaining why those options aren't there if you're running from a
>> 64 bit prefix -- and thus this patch.  To make room for the text I
>> made the applications Listbox 20 pixels shorter.
> - From a user interface point of view, what do you think about adding
> those old Windows versions in the listbox, maybe with a different text
> like "Windows 98 not available in 64 bit", and programming the code to
> set the dropdown field back to the last setting if the user decides to
> choose one of those settings? Or instead of having the modified text,
> pop up an error box and set the setting back.

I had actually considered the option of having the versions in the listbox with an error pop up if the user selects an incompatible one, and I think I like it better.  But I wanted to get my feet wet and this patch was a quick and dirty way of getting something working and seeing what people think of the problem I'm trying to solve, if not the solution.  It sounds as if people like the idea of having all the options + error pop up, so I'll probably go ahead and do that and resubmit the patch.