Ladies and Gentlemen,
I am a Microsoft developer and currently pushing the capabilities of the .NET Framework. On that same note, I am considering moving my laptop to some version of Linux (either Solaris v8.0 or Red Hat). I assumed that I would need to use VMWare or some equivalent to continue using Visual Studio .NET. Can anyone give me some advice?
Many thanx, Fred Lackey Orlando, Florida
have you already tryd wine to run visual studio .NET ? in theory it is possible but i don't think anyone has ever tryd. ( and it will likely not work yet, feel free to send patches ) if you want to port visual studio .NET to linux using wine you should use winemaker. Mark Hannessen
On Sunday 17 November 2002 12:21 pm, Mark Hannessen wrote:
Ladies and Gentlemen,
I am a Microsoft developer and currently pushing the capabilities of the .NET Framework. On that same note, I am considering moving my laptop to some version of Linux (either Solaris v8.0 or Red
Sorry to be pedantic, but Solaris is not Linux. They both belong to the same branch of the Unix family tree (SVR4), but they are distant cousins, at best (sufficiently distant to have children together :) ) Wine supports both platforms, if I understand the current state of affairs correctly. You will probably need gcc to make wine work on Solaris -- I doubt Sun cc is going to cut it (I could be wrong).
Hat). I assumed that I would need to use VMWare or some equivalent to continue using Visual Studio .NET. Can anyone give me some advice?
I'm glad to hear that you prefer wine to VMWare: this is the correct order of preference :) Unfortunately, VMWare may be your best bet at this time, if you plan to achieve productivity on VS.NET under linux anytime soon (see below).
Many thanx, Fred Lackey Orlando, Florida
have you already tryd wine to run visual studio .NET ? in theory it is possible but i don't think anyone has ever tryd. ( and it will likely not work yet, feel free to send patches )
I would not expect much .NET stuff to work on wine. We do not have an MSIL interpreter, and our loader doesn't support the new .NET executable conventions (whatever they are -- I don't know, but I am told that there are some). We also lack any implementation of the CLR, and I'm not sure we even have IE6 working yet (?). Assuming, as many are, that .NET will actually catch on, wine will probably start to worry about this stuff sooner or later. But, so far, we seem to have our hands full just trying to catch up with the Windows "DNA" platform. Of course, as Mark suggests, if you want to help enhance wine to provide .NET support, you may. I just took a peek at their site: the Mono libraries are LGPL-licensed, and the Mono class libraries are MIT/X11-licensed, so from a licensing perspective, utilizing Mono to achieve .NET Framework capabilities under wine seems quite viable. .exe's you build under VC++.NET as native executables will probably work under wine (I have seen examples of this).
if you want to port visual studio .NET to linux using wine you should use winemaker.
Somehow, I am inclined to presume that there is a misunderstanding between yourself and Mark regarding what you mean by "Microsoft developer"? -- gmt "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight; nothing he cares about more than his own personal safety; is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better persons than himself." -- John Stuart Mill
The wine project doesn't have to do anything to support .NET. The mono project is doing what wine has to do :) They are even implementing Windows.Forms (the new gui toolkit for .NET) using winelib and other things. Mono will be able to use all winelib dlls (and native windows dlls using wine too ..), so nothing to worry about. :) On Sunday 17 November 2002 20:11, Greg Turner wrote:
On Sunday 17 November 2002 12:21 pm, Mark Hannessen wrote:
Ladies and Gentlemen,
I am a Microsoft developer and currently pushing the capabilities of the .NET Framework. On that same note, I am considering moving my laptop to some version of Linux (either Solaris v8.0 or Red
Sorry to be pedantic, but Solaris is not Linux. They both belong to the same branch of the Unix family tree (SVR4), but they are distant cousins, at best (sufficiently distant to have children together :) )
Wine supports both platforms, if I understand the current state of affairs correctly. You will probably need gcc to make wine work on Solaris -- I doubt Sun cc is going to cut it (I could be wrong).
Hat). I assumed that I would need to use VMWare or some equivalent to continue using Visual Studio .NET. Can anyone give me some advice?
I'm glad to hear that you prefer wine to VMWare: this is the correct order of preference :) Unfortunately, VMWare may be your best bet at this time, if you plan to achieve productivity on VS.NET under linux anytime soon (see below).
Many thanx, Fred Lackey Orlando, Florida
have you already tryd wine to run visual studio .NET ? in theory it is possible but i don't think anyone has ever tryd. ( and it will likely not work yet, feel free to send patches )
I would not expect much .NET stuff to work on wine. We do not have an MSIL interpreter, and our loader doesn't support the new .NET executable conventions (whatever they are -- I don't know, but I am told that there are some). We also lack any implementation of the CLR, and I'm not sure we even have IE6 working yet (?).
Assuming, as many are, that .NET will actually catch on, wine will probably start to worry about this stuff sooner or later. But, so far, we seem to have our hands full just trying to catch up with the Windows "DNA" platform.
Of course, as Mark suggests, if you want to help enhance wine to provide .NET support, you may. I just took a peek at their site: the Mono libraries are LGPL-licensed, and the Mono class libraries are MIT/X11-licensed, so from a licensing perspective, utilizing Mono to achieve .NET Framework capabilities under wine seems quite viable.
.exe's you build under VC++.NET as native executables will probably work under wine (I have seen examples of this).
if you want to port visual studio .NET to linux using wine you should use winemaker.
Somehow, I am inclined to presume that there is a misunderstanding between yourself and Mark regarding what you mean by "Microsoft developer"?
Greg / Mark, First of all, thanks for the info. And, yes, I think you are correct. I may need to clarify who/where I am. As far as me being a "Microsoft developer," I am a senior-level developer with about 21 years of experience. I've helped some of the Microsoft teams in development of different pieces here and there, but I do not work for Microsoft any longer. My largest contribution was playing a part in the development of the backup utilities (aka "Backup Exec" by Seagate/Arcada Software). Where I am at the moment is a crossroads. I own a company focused on rapid development on a Microsoft platform (essentially, we build components to simplify complex tasks for developers working on a M$ system). Unfortunately, I'm getting pretty sick of the OS and M$ as a whole. Their systems are becoming increasingly bloated and complex, yet the benefit they provide hasn't changed much in many years. Unfortunately, again, Microsoft technologies pay the bills. So, in short, I would like to be able to create a development environment that would allow me to produce applications on a Linux platform using the skills that I already have (or with as little of a learning curve as possible) while still being able to maintain and develop code geared towards a Microsoft platform. Additionally, I would really like to NOT spend a butt load of money purchasing additional software for my new Linux box since most of my decisions will be based out of pure ignorance. Not that I want something for nothing, but I would like to be able to make knowledgeable decisions before I do invest any real money. Enter the Wine project... My ultimate goal is to scrap my Windows XP Pro laptop and install Red Hat v8.0 using Wine for those things that I might need to run from a Windows world. I have recently posted a few questions in various newsgroups asking for input from Linux web developers regarding their preferred development environment (languages, editors, databases, web servers, daemons, any worthwhile tools, etc.). To be completely honest, I knew I was pushing when I asked for the Visual Studio IDE to run with Wine, however, that just goes to show how serious I am to scrap my dependency on the M$ products as a whole. And, even if it DID work, I would still need a clean Win32 OS running somewhere to be able to compile and package any applications. Which brings me to my next question... I have been able to successfully install and run some basic Windows specific applications (Trillian, WinZip, etc.), but I've run into some strange issues when trying to install things like IE (any version) or Office 2000. (It would be great to get my Windows copy of VMWare to install and run.) And, all of the threads that I have found where people have asked for a list of successful applications and/or installation processes have been danced around and seem to always go unanswered. So, I guess I will ask it here... Is there a list of applications that people have successfully installed and how they did it? Anyway, that's enough babbling for now. Sorry for being so long-winded. I just figure, the more info, the better... on both of our parts. Any info, advice, ramblings, frustrations, or humorous remarks are welcome. Thanx, in advance. R/S Fred -----Original Message----- From: Greg Turner [mailto:gmturner007(a)ameritech.net] Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 2:11 PM To: Fredrick P. Lackey Cc: Mark Hannessen; wine-devel(a)winehq.com Subject: Re: Wine with .NET? On Sunday 17 November 2002 12:21 pm, Mark Hannessen wrote:
Ladies and Gentlemen,
I am a Microsoft developer and currently pushing the capabilities of
the .NET Framework. On that same note, I am considering moving my laptop to some version of Linux (either Solaris v8.0 or Red
Sorry to be pedantic, but Solaris is not Linux. They both belong to the same branch of the Unix family tree (SVR4), but they are distant cousins, at best (sufficiently distant to have children together :) ) Wine supports both platforms, if I understand the current state of affairs correctly. You will probably need gcc to make wine work on Solaris -- I doubt Sun cc is going to cut it (I could be wrong).
Hat). I assumed that I would need to use VMWare or some equivalent to continue using Visual Studio .NET. Can anyone give me some advice?
I'm glad to hear that you prefer wine to VMWare: this is the correct order of preference :) Unfortunately, VMWare may be your best bet at this time, if you plan to achieve productivity on VS.NET under linux anytime soon (see below).
Many thanx, Fred Lackey Orlando, Florida
have you already tryd wine to run visual studio .NET ? in theory it is possible but i don't think anyone has ever tryd. ( and
it will likely not work yet, feel free to send patches )
I would not expect much .NET stuff to work on wine. We do not have an MSIL interpreter, and our loader doesn't support the new .NET executable conventions (whatever they are -- I don't know, but I am told that there are some). We also lack any implementation of the CLR, and I'm not sure we even have IE6 working yet (?). Assuming, as many are, that .NET will actually catch on, wine will probably start to worry about this stuff sooner or later. But, so far, we seem to have our hands full just trying to catch up with the Windows "DNA" platform. Of course, as Mark suggests, if you want to help enhance wine to provide .NET support, you may. I just took a peek at their site: the Mono libraries are LGPL-licensed, and the Mono class libraries are MIT/X11-licensed, so from a licensing perspective, utilizing Mono to achieve .NET Framework capabilities under wine seems quite viable. .exe's you build under VC++.NET as native executables will probably work under wine (I have seen examples of this).
if you want to port visual studio .NET to linux using wine you should use winemaker.
Somehow, I am inclined to presume that there is a misunderstanding between yourself and Mark regarding what you mean by "Microsoft developer"? -- gmt "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight; nothing he cares about more than his own personal safety; is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better persons than himself." -- John Stuart Mill
Fredrick P. Lackey wrote:
Where I am at the moment is a crossroads. I own a company focused on rapid development on a Microsoft platform (essentially, we build components to simplify complex tasks for developers working on a M$ system). Unfortunately, I'm getting pretty sick of the OS and M$ as a whole. Their systems are becoming increasingly bloated and complex, yet the benefit they provide hasn't changed much in many years. Unfortunately, again, Microsoft technologies pay the bills.
So, in short, I would like to be able to create a development environment that would allow me to produce applications on a Linux platform using the skills that I already have (or with as little of a learning curve as possible) while still being able to maintain and develop code geared towards a Microsoft platform. Additionally, I would really like to NOT spend a butt load of money purchasing additional software for my new Linux box since most of my decisions will be based out of pure ignorance. Not that I want something for nothing, but I would like to be able to make knowledgeable decisions before I do invest any real money.
Sorry not to answer your main questions, but some ideas on this ... We use gcc, wxWindows and mingw. Not sure how much you _need_ .NET but we migrated our (fairly complex) app from Visual C++/MFC to wxWindows and it was definitely worth it. Also we can use gcc to cross-compile from Linux for Windows, so basically although our software is currently used exclusively on Windows, I can develop it all on Linux (obviously some testing to be done on Windows as well, but basically it works). And it's all free, open-source software. I'd recommend checking it out. David
My ultimate goal is to scrap my Windows XP Pro laptop and install Red Hat v8.0 using Wine for those things that I might need to run from a Windows world. OK, Wine will let you do that to some extent. If you want IE6 and Office 2000 right now it might be a good idea to get CrossOver Office, I tried several times to get IE working from WineHQ builds and never succeeded, but it worked first time with CrossOver. It's a time/effort thing. As for VS.NET on wine, that's highly unlikely at the moment. I don't know if VS.NET is actually written in .NET or not, but either which way Windows compatability on Linux isn't advanced enough yet. Bear in mind though that you can still develop for .NET on Linux by using Mono. They have a working C# compiler which spits out ECMA standard .net executables, quite a complete class library and they are busy getting System.Windows.Forms to work with Winelib. Alternatives to Visual Studio include SharpDevelop (doubt that would compile under Mono though) or simply using the native Linux apps such as emacs (i personally write all my code in xemacs) and using the command line. It sounds primitive, in reality it's far from it. To be completely honest, I knew I was pushing when I asked for the Visual Studio IDE to run with Wine, however, that just goes to show how serious I am to scrap my dependency on the M$ products as a whole. And, even if it DID work, I would still need a clean Win32 OS running somewhere to be able to compile and package any applications. Hmm, so you want to scrap your dependancy on Microsoft products but still use .NET, Visual Studio and still write Windows apps? ;) Is there a list of applications that people have successfully installed and how they did it? Yes, at appdb.winehq.org Again, for Office 2000 and IE you'll for now be best advised imho to use CrossOver. It makes it much easier. I've personally got IE and WinZip working fine, Trillian kind of works but has several problems related to its bizarre window management. Bear in mind that if you're serious about dropping MS dependancies then you need to look into native apps, for instance Mozilla, FileRoller and Gaim would be close equivalents to those three. Using MS and Windows products on Linux isn't going to be a 100% happy experience right now. thanks -mike
On Mon, 2002-11-18 at 03:14, Mike Hearn wrote:
To be completely honest, I knew I was pushing when I asked for the Visual Studio IDE to run with Wine, however, that just goes to show how serious I am to scrap my dependency on the M$ products as a whole. And, even if it DID work, I would still need a clean Win32 OS running somewhere to be able to compile and package any applications.
Hmm, so you want to scrap your dependancy on Microsoft products but still use .NET, Visual Studio and still write Windows apps? ;)
I know I sound like a broken record, but just so it's out there: Visual Foxpro 5 and 6 IDE's DO run under Wine, BUT, left mouse clicks in child windows are broken. I've compiled and run VFP apps under wine, but it's a pain in the butt to go kybd only in a Visual IDE :P Rick -- -- Rick Romero IT Manager Valeo, Inc. ph: 262.695.4841 Sussex, WI. fax: 262.695.4850 Rick(a)valeoinc.com
On Monday 18 November 2002 00:37, you wrote:
Greg / Mark,
So, in short, I would like to be able to create a development environment that would allow me to produce applications on a Linux platform using the skills that I already have (or with as little of a learning curve as possible) while still being able to maintain and develop code geared towards a Microsoft platform.
you can use winemaker to develop windows programms under linux. headers and stuff in winemaker should be the same as in windows. so it should look familiar. Additionally, I would
really like to NOT spend a butt load of money purchasing additional software for my new Linux box since most of my decisions will be based out of pure ignorance. Not that I want something for nothing, but I would like to be able to make knowledgeable decisions before I do invest any real money. you should not need any additional software. linux offers many development tools ( compiler, debugger etc ) out of the box.
Which brings me to my next question...
I have been able to successfully install and run some basic Windows specific applications (Trillian, WinZip, etc.), but I've run into some strange issues when trying to install things like IE (any version) or Office 2000.
Office 2000 and internet exporer still have many bugs under wine. but i know codeweavers sells crossoffice. this is an version of wine ( costs $ 54,95.- ) with office improvement. it is able to run microsoft office / internet explorer and a few other apps almost flawless, i guess this would be your best bet for now. checkout www.codewavers.com for more info.
Is there a list of applications that people have successfully installed and how they did it?
i believe dimi is currently working on something like that. but it is not yet ready ( scheduled for wine 0.8 ?? )
Anyway, that's enough babbling for now. Sorry for being so long-winded. I just figure, the more info, the better... on both of our parts.
no prob
Any info, advice, ramblings, frustrations, or humorous remarks are welcome. Thanx, in advance.
hope this is enough information. if you want to know more, feel free to ask. Mark Hannessen
oops.. typo checkout www.codewavers.com for more info. this should be www.codeweavers.com Mark Hannessen
participants (7)
-
David Fraser -
Fredrick P. Lackey -
Greg Turner -
Mark Hannessen -
Mike Hearn -
Rick Romero -
Roderick Colenbrander