To translate 'Program Files' or not to translate?

[Francois Gouget]

That is the question!


We have a bunch of shell paths to translate in shell32.rc. However, 
based on my French Windows VMs and computers I believe a number of them 
should not be translated:

 * As far as I can tell 'Program Files' is never translated.
 * Same thing for 'SendTo' and 'Recent'.
 * 'Application Data' appears to be translated in NT4 but not on Windows 
   2000 and greater.

Generally speaking translating a path causes all sorts of trouble 
with broken applications. For instance one regularly ends up with a 
'Common Files' folder as well as the French 'Fichiers Communs' one, even 
on a clean Windows install!

Looking at Windows 2000 and greater it seems that Microsoft first 
decided to only translate the folders most visible to the user. That 
would explain why 'Application Data', 'Local Settings' and their ilk are 
not translated.

But the very latest fashion (e.g. Windows 7), appears to be to never 
translate the actual on-disk folder name and use 'desktop.ini' files to 
get a localized name in the GUI. So for instance on Windows 7 the 
'Program Files' folder is called that way on disk but it appears as 
'Programmes' in Windows Explorer because of the desktop.ini file (as an 
anecdote 'Program Files (x86)' has no 'desktop.ini' file and thus is not 
translated in Explorer. What a mess!).


So what do we want to do?

The patch below marks the paths that are not meant to be translated as 
such to reduce the translators burden and avoid mistakes. Some paths mix 
parts that need to be translated with other that shouldn't. Given the 
CSIDL_Data structure I'm not sure that can be avoided but I'll be happy 
with any patch that avoids that. In the meantime I use the message 
context to give instructions to the translator.

Does this make sense? Any better solution?


diff --git a/dlls/shell32/shell32.rc b/dlls/shell32/shell32.rc
index 92d9d72..3aaa0f2 100644
--- a/dlls/shell32/shell32.rc
+++ b/dlls/shell32/shell32.rc
@@ -200,31 +200,31 @@ the folder?"
 	IDS_PERSONAL                "My Documents"
 	IDS_FAVORITES               "Favorites"
 	IDS_STARTUP                 "Start Menu\\Programs\\StartUp"
-	IDS_RECENT                  "Recent"
-	IDS_SENDTO                  "SendTo"
+	IDS_RECENT                  "#msgctxt#do not translate#Recent"
+	IDS_SENDTO                  "#msgctxt#do not translate#SendTo"
 	IDS_STARTMENU               "Start Menu"
 	IDS_MYMUSIC                 "My Music"
 	IDS_MYVIDEO                 "My Videos"
 	IDS_DESKTOPDIRECTORY        "#msgctxt#directory#Desktop"
 	IDS_NETHOOD                 "NetHood"
 	IDS_TEMPLATES               "Templates"
-	IDS_APPDATA                 "Application Data"
+	IDS_APPDATA                 "#msgctxt#do not translate#Application Data"
 	IDS_PRINTHOOD               "PrintHood"
-	IDS_LOCAL_APPDATA           "Local Settings\\Application Data"
-	IDS_INTERNET_CACHE          "Local Settings\\Temporary Internet Files"
-	IDS_COOKIES                 "Cookies"
-	IDS_HISTORY                 "Local Settings\\History"
-	IDS_PROGRAM_FILES           "Program Files"
-	IDS_PROGRAM_FILESX86        "Program Files (x86)"
+	IDS_LOCAL_APPDATA           "#msgctxt#do not translate#Local Settings\\Application Data"
+	IDS_INTERNET_CACHE          "#msgctxt#do not translate#Local Settings\\Temporary Internet Files"
+	IDS_COOKIES                 "#msgctxt#do not translate#Cookies"
+	IDS_HISTORY                 "#msgctxt#do not translate 'Local Settings'#Local Settings\\History"
+	IDS_PROGRAM_FILES           "#msgctxt#do not translate#Program Files"
+	IDS_PROGRAM_FILESX86        "#msgctxt#do not translate#Program Files (x86)"
 	IDS_MYPICTURES              "My Pictures"
-	IDS_PROGRAM_FILES_COMMON    "Program Files\\Common Files"
-	IDS_PROGRAM_FILES_COMMONX86 "Program Files (x86)\\Common Files"
+	IDS_PROGRAM_FILES_COMMON    "#msgctxt#do not translate 'Program Files'#Program Files\\Common Files"
+	IDS_PROGRAM_FILES_COMMONX86 "#msgctxt#do not translate 'Program Files (x86)'#Program Files (x86)\\Common Files"
 	IDS_COMMON_DOCUMENTS        "Documents"
 	IDS_ADMINTOOLS              "Start Menu\\Programs\\Administrative Tools"
 	IDS_COMMON_MUSIC            "Music"
 	IDS_COMMON_PICTURES         "Pictures"
 	IDS_COMMON_VIDEO            "Videos"
-	IDS_CDBURN_AREA             "Local Settings\\Application Data\\Microsoft\\CD Burning"
+	IDS_CDBURN_AREA             "#msgctxt#do not translate#Local Settings\\Application Data\\Microsoft\\CD Burning"
 	IDS_CONTACTS                "Contacts"
 	IDS_LINKS                   "Links"
 	IDS_PHOTO_ALBUMS            "Pictures\\Slide Shows"
-- 
1.7.7.3

[Jerome Leclanche]

We could translate the path and setup an English symlink automatically if
possible?

J. Leclanche


On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 10:36 AM, Francois Gouget <fgouget(a)free.fr> wrote:
> That is the question!
>
> We have a bunch of shell paths to translate in shell32.rc. However,
> based on my French Windows VMs and computers I believe a number of them
> should not be translated:
>
> * As far as I can tell 'Program Files' is never translated.
>  * Same thing for 'SendTo' and 'Recent'.
>  * 'Application Data' appears to be translated in NT4 but not on Windows
>   2000 and greater.
>
> Generally speaking translating a path causes all sorts of trouble
> with broken applications. For instance one regularly ends up with a
> 'Common Files' folder as well as the French 'Fichiers Communs' one, even
> on a clean Windows install!
>
> Looking at Windows 2000 and greater it seems that Microsoft first
> decided to only translate the folders most visible to the user. That
> would explain why 'Application Data', 'Local Settings' and their ilk are
> not translated.
>
> But the very latest fashion (e.g. Windows 7), appears to be to never
> translate the actual on-disk folder name and use 'desktop.ini' files to
> get a localized name in the GUI. So for instance on Windows 7 the
> 'Program Files' folder is called that way on disk but it appears as
> 'Programmes' in Windows Explorer because of the desktop.ini file (as an
> anecdote 'Program Files (x86)' has no 'desktop.ini' file and thus is not
> translated in Explorer. What a mess!).
>
> So what do we want to do?
>
> The patch below marks the paths that are not meant to be translated as
> such to reduce the translators burden and avoid mistakes. Some paths mix
> parts that need to be translated with other that shouldn't. Given the
> CSIDL_Data structure I'm not sure that can be avoided but I'll be happy
> with any patch that avoids that. In the meantime I use the message
> context to give instructions to the translator.
>
> Does this make sense? Any better solution?
>
> diff --git a/dlls/shell32/shell32.rc b/dlls/shell32/shell32.rc
> index 92d9d72..3aaa0f2 100644
> --- a/dlls/shell32/shell32.rc
> +++ b/dlls/shell32/shell32.rc
> @@ -200,31 +200,31 @@ the folder?"
>        IDS_PERSONAL                "My Documents"
>        IDS_FAVORITES               "Favorites"
>        IDS_STARTUP                 "Start Menu\\Programs\\StartUp"
> -       IDS_RECENT                  "Recent"
> -       IDS_SENDTO                  "SendTo"
> +       IDS_RECENT                  "#msgctxt#do not translate#Recent"
> +       IDS_SENDTO                  "#msgctxt#do not translate#SendTo"
>        IDS_STARTMENU               "Start Menu"
>        IDS_MYMUSIC                 "My Music"
>        IDS_MYVIDEO                 "My Videos"
>        IDS_DESKTOPDIRECTORY        "#msgctxt#directory#Desktop"
>        IDS_NETHOOD                 "NetHood"
>        IDS_TEMPLATES               "Templates"
> -       IDS_APPDATA                 "Application Data"
> +       IDS_APPDATA                 "#msgctxt#do not translate#Application
> Data"
>        IDS_PRINTHOOD               "PrintHood"
> -       IDS_LOCAL_APPDATA           "Local Settings\\Application Data"
> -       IDS_INTERNET_CACHE          "Local Settings\\Temporary Internet
> Files"
> -       IDS_COOKIES                 "Cookies"
> -       IDS_HISTORY                 "Local Settings\\History"
> -       IDS_PROGRAM_FILES           "Program Files"
> -       IDS_PROGRAM_FILESX86        "Program Files (x86)"
> +       IDS_LOCAL_APPDATA           "#msgctxt#do not translate#Local
> Settings\\Application Data"
> +       IDS_INTERNET_CACHE          "#msgctxt#do not translate#Local
> Settings\\Temporary Internet Files"
> +       IDS_COOKIES                 "#msgctxt#do not translate#Cookies"
> +       IDS_HISTORY                 "#msgctxt#do not translate 'Local
> Settings'#Local Settings\\History"
> +       IDS_PROGRAM_FILES           "#msgctxt#do not translate#Program
> Files"
> +       IDS_PROGRAM_FILESX86        "#msgctxt#do not translate#Program
> Files (x86)"
>        IDS_MYPICTURES              "My Pictures"
> -       IDS_PROGRAM_FILES_COMMON    "Program Files\\Common Files"
> -       IDS_PROGRAM_FILES_COMMONX86 "Program Files (x86)\\Common Files"
> +       IDS_PROGRAM_FILES_COMMON    "#msgctxt#do not translate 'Program
> Files'#Program Files\\Common Files"
> +       IDS_PROGRAM_FILES_COMMONX86 "#msgctxt#do not translate 'Program
> Files (x86)'#Program Files (x86)\\Common Files"
>        IDS_COMMON_DOCUMENTS        "Documents"
>        IDS_ADMINTOOLS              "Start Menu\\Programs\\Administrative
> Tools"
>        IDS_COMMON_MUSIC            "Music"
>        IDS_COMMON_PICTURES         "Pictures"
>        IDS_COMMON_VIDEO            "Videos"
> -       IDS_CDBURN_AREA             "Local Settings\\Application
> Data\\Microsoft\\CD Burning"
> +       IDS_CDBURN_AREA             "#msgctxt#do not translate#Local
> Settings\\Application Data\\Microsoft\\CD Burning"
>        IDS_CONTACTS                "Contacts"
>        IDS_LINKS                   "Links"
>        IDS_PHOTO_ALBUMS            "Pictures\\Slide Shows"
> --
> 1.7.7.3

[Conan Kudo (ニール・ゴンパ)]

Or you could do the other way around. More programs expect the English path
name than translated ones. Honestly, translating path names is a recipe for
disaster.
On Jan 17, 2012 8:25 AM, "Jerome Leclanche" <adys.wh(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> We could translate the path and setup an English symlink automatically if
> possible?
>
> J. Leclanche
>
> On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 10:36 AM, Francois Gouget <fgouget(a)free.fr> wrote:
> > That is the question!
> >
> > We have a bunch of shell paths to translate in shell32.rc. However,
> > based on my French Windows VMs and computers I believe a number of them
> > should not be translated:
> >
> > * As far as I can tell 'Program Files' is never translated.
> >  * Same thing for 'SendTo' and 'Recent'.
> >  * 'Application Data' appears to be translated in NT4 but not on Windows
> >   2000 and greater.
> >
> > Generally speaking translating a path causes all sorts of trouble
> > with broken applications. For instance one regularly ends up with a
> > 'Common Files' folder as well as the French 'Fichiers Communs' one, even
> > on a clean Windows install!
> >
> > Looking at Windows 2000 and greater it seems that Microsoft first
> > decided to only translate the folders most visible to the user. That
> > would explain why 'Application Data', 'Local Settings' and their ilk are
> > not translated.
> >
> > But the very latest fashion (e.g. Windows 7), appears to be to never
> > translate the actual on-disk folder name and use 'desktop.ini' files to
> > get a localized name in the GUI. So for instance on Windows 7 the
> > 'Program Files' folder is called that way on disk but it appears as
> > 'Programmes' in Windows Explorer because of the desktop.ini file (as an
> > anecdote 'Program Files (x86)' has no 'desktop.ini' file and thus is not
> > translated in Explorer. What a mess!).
> >
> > So what do we want to do?
> >
> > The patch below marks the paths that are not meant to be translated as
> > such to reduce the translators burden and avoid mistakes. Some paths mix
> > parts that need to be translated with other that shouldn't. Given the
> > CSIDL_Data structure I'm not sure that can be avoided but I'll be happy
> > with any patch that avoids that. In the meantime I use the message
> > context to give instructions to the translator.
> >
> > Does this make sense? Any better solution?
> >
> > diff --git a/dlls/shell32/shell32.rc b/dlls/shell32/shell32.rc
> > index 92d9d72..3aaa0f2 100644
> > --- a/dlls/shell32/shell32.rc
> > +++ b/dlls/shell32/shell32.rc
> > @@ -200,31 +200,31 @@ the folder?"
> >        IDS_PERSONAL                "My Documents"
> >        IDS_FAVORITES               "Favorites"
> >        IDS_STARTUP                 "Start Menu\\Programs\\StartUp"
> > -       IDS_RECENT                  "Recent"
> > -       IDS_SENDTO                  "SendTo"
> > +       IDS_RECENT                  "#msgctxt#do not translate#Recent"
> > +       IDS_SENDTO                  "#msgctxt#do not translate#SendTo"
> >        IDS_STARTMENU               "Start Menu"
> >        IDS_MYMUSIC                 "My Music"
> >        IDS_MYVIDEO                 "My Videos"
> >        IDS_DESKTOPDIRECTORY        "#msgctxt#directory#Desktop"
> >        IDS_NETHOOD                 "NetHood"
> >        IDS_TEMPLATES               "Templates"
> > -       IDS_APPDATA                 "Application Data"
> > +       IDS_APPDATA                 "#msgctxt#do not
> > translate#Application Data"
> >        IDS_PRINTHOOD               "PrintHood"
> > -       IDS_LOCAL_APPDATA           "Local Settings\\Application Data"
> > -       IDS_INTERNET_CACHE          "Local Settings\\Temporary Internet
> > Files"
> > -       IDS_COOKIES                 "Cookies"
> > -       IDS_HISTORY                 "Local Settings\\History"
> > -       IDS_PROGRAM_FILES           "Program Files"
> > -       IDS_PROGRAM_FILESX86        "Program Files (x86)"
> > +       IDS_LOCAL_APPDATA           "#msgctxt#do not translate#Local
> > Settings\\Application Data"
> > +       IDS_INTERNET_CACHE          "#msgctxt#do not translate#Local
> > Settings\\Temporary Internet Files"
> > +       IDS_COOKIES                 "#msgctxt#do not translate#Cookies"
> > +       IDS_HISTORY                 "#msgctxt#do not translate 'Local
> > Settings'#Local Settings\\History"
> > +       IDS_PROGRAM_FILES           "#msgctxt#do not translate#Program
> > Files"
> > +       IDS_PROGRAM_FILESX86        "#msgctxt#do not translate#Program
> > Files (x86)"
> >        IDS_MYPICTURES              "My Pictures"
> > -       IDS_PROGRAM_FILES_COMMON    "Program Files\\Common Files"
> > -       IDS_PROGRAM_FILES_COMMONX86 "Program Files (x86)\\Common Files"
> > +       IDS_PROGRAM_FILES_COMMON    "#msgctxt#do not translate 'Program
> > Files'#Program Files\\Common Files"
> > +       IDS_PROGRAM_FILES_COMMONX86 "#msgctxt#do not translate 'Program
> > Files (x86)'#Program Files (x86)\\Common Files"
> >        IDS_COMMON_DOCUMENTS        "Documents"
> >        IDS_ADMINTOOLS              "Start Menu\\Programs\\Administrative
> > Tools"
> >        IDS_COMMON_MUSIC            "Music"
> >        IDS_COMMON_PICTURES         "Pictures"
> >        IDS_COMMON_VIDEO            "Videos"
> > -       IDS_CDBURN_AREA             "Local Settings\\Application
> > Data\\Microsoft\\CD Burning"
> > +       IDS_CDBURN_AREA             "#msgctxt#do not translate#Local
> > Settings\\Application Data\\Microsoft\\CD Burning"
> >        IDS_CONTACTS                "Contacts"
> >        IDS_LINKS                   "Links"
> >        IDS_PHOTO_ALBUMS            "Pictures\\Slide Shows"
> > --
> > 1.7.7.3

[Francois Gouget]

On Tue, 17 Jan 2012, Jerome Leclanche wrote:
> We could translate the path and setup an English symlink automatically if
> possible?

I don't think that's a good option. I think our two options are:

 1) Translate the folder names that need to be translated using 
    the resource files.
 2) Or don't translate the folder names at all and use desktop.ini files 
    so they appear to be localized in the GUI (which may require 
    further development in various parts).

(2) is really the way things are going these days, I belive even Gnome 
is doing it that way. So inventing our own solution really does not 
sound like a good idea to me (plus it has a lot of issues with duplicate 
names and when you change the locale).

I think it's reasonable to do (2) even without adding support for 
desktop.ini files right now. And really here I'm just interested in what 
to do with these resource strings.

-- 
Francois Gouget <fgouget(a)free.fr>              http://fgouget.free.fr/
        It really galls me that most of the computer power in the world
                          is wasted on screen savers.
                     Chris Caldwell from the GIMPS project
                       http://www.mersenne.org/prime.htm

[Alexandre Julliard]

Francois Gouget <fgouget(a)free.fr> writes:
> I think it's reasonable to do (2) even without adding support for 
> desktop.ini files right now. And really here I'm just interested in what 
> to do with these resource strings.

Doing (2) should be fine. Then the strings don't need to be in resources
at all, they can be constants in the code.

-- 
Alexandre Julliard
julliard(a)winehq.org

[Francois Gouget]

On Tue, 17 Jan 2012, Alexandre Julliard wrote:
> Francois Gouget <fgouget(a)free.fr> writes:
> > I think it's reasonable to do (2) even without adding support for 
> > desktop.ini files right now. And really here I'm just interested in what 
> > to do with these resource strings.
>
> Doing (2) should be fine. Then the strings don't need to be in resources
> at all, they can be constants in the code.

Do you mean it just for the paths I identified as not being translated 
usually ('Program Files' for instance) or all of them (e.g. 'My 
Pictures')? I guess ultimately with the desktop.ini approach we can do 
that for all of them, I'm just unsure about whether now's the right 
time.

-- 
Francois Gouget <fgouget(a)free.fr>              http://fgouget.free.fr/
               RFC 2549: ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc2549.txt
                IP over Avian Carriers with Quality of Service