(Point taken about the list noise, btw.  I'm trying to be polite and
answer people's questions, and at the same time not expand the subject
since I know we're deeply off-topic by now.  I do feel bad about that,
but there's no way right now to both answer questions and keep things
on-topic.  A "move this conversation to chit-chat room" feature for
mailing lists would be nice...)

Just thought I'd go extremely off-topic on this one and point out (yea yea huge groan from everyone lol) that this is yet another argument that I think a forum would fix.....................