- Wine-Devel - list.winehq.org

load_dll problem
by Dimitrie O. Paun May 23, 2003

May 23, 2003

Folks, I am trying to run some Winelib apps built with winegcc, and they don't work. winegcc/winewrap do the wrapper idea to avoid initialization problems: basically the main app is built as a .dll which is loaded with LoadLibrary by a small loader. Well, this DLL is not found, and the app doesn't load. I think the problem is in load_dll(), in dlls/ntdll/loader.c line 887: if (!libdir || allocated_libdir) found = SearchPathA(NULL, libname, ".dll", MAX_PATH, filename, NULL); else found = DIR_SearchAlternatePath(libdir, libname, ".dll", MAX_PATH, filename, NULL); As SearchPathA doesn't seem to know that it also needs to look for the .so version of the DLL. Here is what happens: 1. Directory contents (simplified) [dimi(a)dimi dialogs]$ ls CVS dialogs.def dialogs.h dialogs.pro descrip.mms dialogs.dll.so dialogs.ico dialogs.rc dialogs dialogs.dsp dialogsM5.xml dialogs.rcO dialogs.cpp dialogs.exe.so dialogs.o dialogs_resources.o 'dialogs' is a small bash script which loads 'dialogs.exe.so' which does a simple LoadLibrary('dialogs.dll') to load 'dialogs.dll.so' which is the actual application. 2. Here is the relevant part of: ./dialogs --debugmsg +dosfs,+file,+module,+loaddll with a 'grep -v trace:dosfs:DOSFS_ReadDir' for brevity. trace:module:LdrGetDllHandle 0 0 L"user32.dll" -> 0x40980000 trace:module:LdrGetDllHandle 0 0 L"user32.dll" -> 0x40980000 trace:module:LdrGetDllHandle 0 0 L"user32.dll" -> 0x40980000 trace:module:LdrGetDllHandle 0 0 L"user32.dll" -> 0x40980000 trace:module:GetModuleFileNameW L"F:\\dev\\wine\\wxWindows\\samples\\dialogs\\dialogs.exe" trace:dosfs:DOSFS_GetFullName L"F:\\dev\\wine\\wxWindows\\samples\\dialogs\\dialogs.dll" (last=1) trace:dosfs:DOSFS_FindUnixName /home/dimi,L"dev\\wine\\wxWindows\\samples\\dialogs\\dialogs.dll" trace:dosfs:DOSFS_ToDosFCBFormat (L"dev\\wine\\wxWindows\\samples\\dialogs\\dialogs.dll", 0x408a1af0) trace:dosfs:DOSFS_OpenDir "/home/dimi" trace:dosfs:DOSFS_FindUnixName (/home/dimi,L"dev\\wine\\wxWindows\\samples\\dialogs\\dialogs.dll") -> L"dev" (L"DEV") trace:dosfs:DOSFS_FindUnixName /home/dimi/dev,L"wine\\wxWindows\\samples\\dialogs\\dialogs.dll" trace:dosfs:DOSFS_ToDosFCBFormat (L"wine\\wxWindows\\samples\\dialogs\\dialogs.dll", 0x408a1af0) trace:dosfs:DOSFS_OpenDir "/home/dimi/dev" trace:dosfs:DOSFS_FindUnixName (/home/dimi/dev,L"wine\\wxWindows\\samples\\dialogs\\dialogs.dll") -> L"wine" (L"WINE") trace:dosfs:DOSFS_FindUnixName /home/dimi/dev/wine,L"wxWindows\\samples\\dialogs\\dialogs.dll" trace:dosfs:DOSFS_ToDosFCBFormat (L"wxWindows\\samples\\dialogs\\dialogs.dll", 0x408a1af0) trace:dosfs:DOSFS_OpenDir "/home/dimi/dev/wine" trace:dosfs:DOSFS_FindUnixName (/home/dimi/dev/wine,L"wxWindows\\samples\\dialogs\\dialogs.dll") -> L"wxWindows" (L"WXWI~MP0") trace:dosfs:DOSFS_FindUnixName /home/dimi/dev/wine/wxWindows,L"samples\\dialogs\\dialogs.dll" trace:dosfs:DOSFS_ToDosFCBFormat (L"samples\\dialogs\\dialogs.dll", 0x408a1af0) trace:dosfs:DOSFS_OpenDir "/home/dimi/dev/wine/wxWindows" trace:dosfs:DOSFS_FindUnixName (/home/dimi/dev/wine/wxWindows,L"samples\\dialogs\\dialogs.dll") -> L"samples" (L"SAMPLES") trace:dosfs:DOSFS_FindUnixName /home/dimi/dev/wine/wxWindows/samples,L"dialogs\\dialogs.dll" trace:dosfs:DOSFS_ToDosFCBFormat (L"dialogs\\dialogs.dll", 0x408a1af0) trace:dosfs:DOSFS_OpenDir "/home/dimi/dev/wine/wxWindows/samples" trace:dosfs:DOSFS_FindUnixName (/home/dimi/dev/wine/wxWindows/samples,L"dialogs\\dialogs.dll") -> L"dialogs" (L"DIALOGS") trace:dosfs:DOSFS_FindUnixName /home/dimi/dev/wine/wxWindows/samples/dialogs,L"dialogs.dll" trace:dosfs:DOSFS_ToDosFCBFormat (L"dialogs.dll", 0x408a1af0) trace:dosfs:DOSFS_OpenDir "/home/dimi/dev/wine/wxWindows/samples/dialogs" warn:dosfs:DOSFS_FindUnixName L"dialogs.dll" not found in '/home/dimi/dev/wine/wxWindows/samples/dialogs' trace:dosfs:DOSFS_GetFullName L"dialogs.dll" (last=1) trace:dosfs:DOSFS_FindUnixName /home/dimi/dev/wine/wxWindows/samples/dialogs,L"dialogs.dll" trace:dosfs:DOSFS_ToDosFCBFormat (L"dialogs.dll", 0x408a1da8) trace:dosfs:DOSFS_OpenDir "/home/dimi/dev/wine/wxWindows/samples/dialogs" warn:dosfs:DOSFS_FindUnixName L"dialogs.dll" not found in '/home/dimi/dev/wine/wxWindows/samples/dialogs' trace:dosfs:DOSFS_FindUnixName /home/dimi/cxoffice/support/dotwine/fake_windows/Windows/System,L"dialogs.dll" trace:dosfs:DOSFS_ToDosFCBFormat (L"dialogs.dll", 0x408a1dd0) trace:dosfs:DOSFS_OpenDir "/home/dimi/cxoffice/support/dotwine/fake_windows/Windows/System" warn:dosfs:DOSFS_FindUnixName L"dialogs.dll" not found in '/home/dimi/cxoffice/support/dotwine/fake_windows/Windows/System' trace:dosfs:DOSFS_FindUnixName /home/dimi/cxoffice/support/dotwine/fake_windows/Windows,L"dialogs.dll" trace:dosfs:DOSFS_ToDosFCBFormat (L"dialogs.dll", 0x408a1dd0) trace:dosfs:DOSFS_OpenDir "/home/dimi/cxoffice/support/dotwine/fake_windows/Windows" warn:dosfs:DOSFS_FindUnixName L"dialogs.dll" not found in '/home/dimi/cxoffice/support/dotwine/fake_windows/Windows' trace:module:GetModuleFileNameW L"F:\\dev\\wine\\wxWindows\\samples\\dialogs\\dialogs.exe" trace:dosfs:DOSFS_GetFullName L"c:\\windows\\dialogs.dll" (last=1) trace:dosfs:DOSFS_FindUnixName /home/dimi/cxoffice/support/dotwine/fake_windows,L"windows\\dialogs.dll" trace:dosfs:DOSFS_ToDosFCBFormat (L"windows\\dialogs.dll", 0x408a1d44) trace:dosfs:DOSFS_OpenDir "/home/dimi/cxoffice/support/dotwine/fake_windows" trace:dosfs:DOSFS_FindUnixName (/home/dimi/cxoffice/support/dotwine/fake_windows,L"windows\\dialogs.dll") -> L"Windows" (L"WINDOWS") trace:dosfs:DOSFS_FindUnixName /home/dimi/cxoffice/support/dotwine/fake_windows/Windows,L"dialogs.dll" trace:dosfs:DOSFS_ToDosFCBFormat (L"dialogs.dll", 0x408a1d44) trace:dosfs:DOSFS_OpenDir "/home/dimi/cxoffice/support/dotwine/fake_windows/Windows" warn:dosfs:DOSFS_FindUnixName L"dialogs.dll" not found in '/home/dimi/cxoffice/support/dotwine/fake_windows/Windows' trace:dosfs:DOSFS_GetFullName L"c:\\windows\\system\\dialogs.dll" (last=1) trace:dosfs:DOSFS_FindUnixName /home/dimi/cxoffice/support/dotwine/fake_windows,L"windows\\system\\dialogs.dll" trace:dosfs:DOSFS_ToDosFCBFormat (L"windows\\system\\dialogs.dll", 0x408a1d44) trace:dosfs:DOSFS_OpenDir "/home/dimi/cxoffice/support/dotwine/fake_windows" trace:dosfs:DOSFS_FindUnixName (/home/dimi/cxoffice/support/dotwine/fake_windows,L"windows\\system\\dialogs.dll") -> L"Windows" (L"WINDOWS") trace:dosfs:DOSFS_FindUnixName /home/dimi/cxoffice/support/dotwine/fake_windows/Windows,L"system\\dialogs.dll" trace:dosfs:DOSFS_ToDosFCBFormat (L"system\\dialogs.dll", 0x408a1d44) trace:dosfs:DOSFS_OpenDir "/home/dimi/cxoffice/support/dotwine/fake_windows/Windows" trace:dosfs:DOSFS_FindUnixName (/home/dimi/cxoffice/support/dotwine/fake_windows/Windows,L"system\\dialogs.dll") -> L"System" (L"SYSTEM") trace:dosfs:DOSFS_FindUnixName /home/dimi/cxoffice/support/dotwine/fake_windows/Windows/System,L"dialogs.dll" trace:dosfs:DOSFS_ToDosFCBFormat (L"dialogs.dll", 0x408a1d44) trace:dosfs:DOSFS_OpenDir "/home/dimi/cxoffice/support/dotwine/fake_windows/Windows/System" warn:dosfs:DOSFS_FindUnixName L"dialogs.dll" not found in '/home/dimi/cxoffice/support/dotwine/fake_windows/Windows/System' trace:dosfs:DOSFS_GetFullName L"e:\\\\dialogs.dll" (last=1) trace:dosfs:DOSFS_FindUnixName /tmp,L"dialogs.dll" trace:dosfs:DOSFS_ToDosFCBFormat (L"dialogs.dll", 0x408a1d44) trace:dosfs:DOSFS_OpenDir "/tmp" warn:dosfs:DOSFS_FindUnixName L"dialogs.dll" not found in '/tmp' trace:dosfs:DOSFS_GetFullName L"e:\\test\\dialogs.dll" (last=1) trace:dosfs:DOSFS_FindUnixName /tmp,L"test\\dialogs.dll" trace:dosfs:DOSFS_ToDosFCBFormat (L"test\\dialogs.dll", 0x408a1d44) trace:dosfs:DOSFS_OpenDir "/tmp" warn:dosfs:DOSFS_FindUnixName L"test\\dialogs.dll" not found in '/tmp' trace:dosfs:DOSFS_GetFullName L"f:\\\\dialogs.dll" (last=1) trace:dosfs:DOSFS_FindUnixName /home/dimi,L"dialogs.dll" trace:dosfs:DOSFS_ToDosFCBFormat (L"dialogs.dll", 0x408a1d44) trace:dosfs:DOSFS_OpenDir "/home/dimi" trace:dosfs:DOSFS_OpenDir "/home/dimi" warn:dosfs:DOSFS_FindUnixName L"dialogs.dll" not found in '/home/dimi' trace:module:MODULE_GetLoadOrder looking for C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\dialogs.dll trace:module:GetModuleFileNameW L"F:\\dev\\wine\\wxWindows\\samples\\dialogs\\dialogs.exe" trace:module:open_app_key searching 'dialogs' in AppDefaults\dialogs.exe\DllOverrides trace:module:MODULE_GetLoadOrder got standard wildcard "b,n" for "dialogs.dll" trace:module:load_dll Trying built-in 'C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\dialogs.dll' warn:module:BUILTIN32_dlopen cannot open .so lib for builtin dialogs.dll: /usr/local/lib/wine/dialogs.dll.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory trace:module:load_dll Trying native dll 'C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\dialogs.dll' trace:file:CreateFileW L"C:\\WINDOWS\\SYSTEM\\dialogs.dll" GENERIC_READ FILE_SHARE_READ OPEN_EXISTING attributes 0x0 trace:dosfs:DOSFS_GetFullName L"C:\\WINDOWS\\SYSTEM\\dialogs.dll" (last=1) trace:dosfs:DOSFS_FindUnixName /home/dimi/cxoffice/support/dotwine/fake_windows,L"WINDOWS\\SYSTEM\\dialogs.dll" trace:dosfs:DOSFS_ToDosFCBFormat (L"WINDOWS\\SYSTEM\\dialogs.dll", 0x408a1fe0) trace:dosfs:DOSFS_OpenDir "/home/dimi/cxoffice/support/dotwine/fake_windows" trace:dosfs:DOSFS_FindUnixName (/home/dimi/cxoffice/support/dotwine/fake_windows,L"WINDOWS\\SYSTEM\\dialogs.dll") -> L"Windows" (L"WINDOWS") trace:dosfs:DOSFS_FindUnixName /home/dimi/cxoffice/support/dotwine/fake_windows/Windows,L"SYSTEM\\dialogs.dll" trace:dosfs:DOSFS_ToDosFCBFormat (L"SYSTEM\\dialogs.dll", 0x408a1fe0) trace:dosfs:DOSFS_OpenDir "/home/dimi/cxoffice/support/dotwine/fake_windows/Windows" trace:dosfs:DOSFS_FindUnixName (/home/dimi/cxoffice/support/dotwine/fake_windows/Windows,L"SYSTEM\\dialogs.dll") -> L"System" (L"SYSTEM") trace:dosfs:DOSFS_FindUnixName /home/dimi/cxoffice/support/dotwine/fake_windows/Windows/System,L"dialogs.dll" trace:dosfs:DOSFS_ToDosFCBFormat (L"dialogs.dll", 0x408a1fe0) trace:dosfs:DOSFS_OpenDir "/home/dimi/cxoffice/support/dotwine/fake_windows/Windows/System" warn:dosfs:DOSFS_FindUnixName L"dialogs.dll" not found in '/home/dimi/cxoffice/support/dotwine/fake_windows/Windows/System' warn:file:CreateFileW Unable to get full filename from L"C:\\WINDOWS\\SYSTEM\\dialogs.dll" (GLE 2) warn:module:load_dll Failed to load module 'C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\dialogs.dll'; status=-1073741809 trace:module:LdrGetDllHandle 0 0 L"user32.dll" -> 0x40980000 -- Dimi.

6 21

Overlapped I/O + hEvent == NULL reopened + other questions
by Thomas Charbonnel May 23, 2003

May 23, 2003

Hi, I'm trying to migrate a proprietary TCP/IP client/server db application from Windows NT to Linux using Wine, and am encountering some difficulties. * First of all the application uses overlapped I/O in an unconventionnal way. The application scenario is as follows : Setup server socket Call WSAAsyncSelect On accept, create a new window associated with the new socket Call WSAAsyncSelect for this new socket/window. On network event on the new socket, if the FD_READ event is passed to the WindowProc, call ReadFile with an overlapped struct, but hEvent == NULL On IO_PENDING_READ_ERROR, call GetOverlappedResult with bWait set to TRUE There was a thread about this on this list on November 2002 ("Overlapped I/O without an hEvent"). At that time Martin Wilck submited a patch that did not get commited to CVS. I got things working by slightly modifying his patch. The idea was floating around in the November thread : in the GetOverlappedResult function, if the bWait flag is set, then wait calling WaitForSingleObjectEx with the socket handle passed in instead of the overlapped structure handle. I suspect this method is unclean, but works for me as the server app I'm trying to run instantiates a window (thus a WindowProc) per client. I'm waiting for your comments and suggestions on how to properly handle this. * Next I have a problem with high network loads (maybe related to the previous issue). When I run the sever app in Wine and access it with a remote client, operations generating a high network load tend to be unstable. Most of the time the client application hangs at some point, and sometimes the server hangs too. This does not happen if I run the client with Wine on the same machine as the server. Are they known issues with the winsock implementation ? * Wine used to crash because the server app called WritePrivateProfileString with a NULL lpFileName. I fixed this by returning FALSE if lpFileName == NULL, but I don't know how windows handles this. The app calls WritePrivateProfileString with a proper file name a couple of times before setting it to NULL, so I suspect windows is caching the file name. * The client comes with a printing helper app. They communicate through dde. I get the 'fixme:class:get_class_ptr reading from class of other process window' message. How is this supposed to be handled ? * Minor remaining problems : - the end of tooltip texts is garbled - help doesn't work (it seems the help file name is not passed as a parameter) Thanks for your attention, Thomas

3 2

A under-educated question
by Steven Edwards May 23, 2003

May 23, 2003

Hello, I am going to attempt to split commdlg and comdlg32 in to win16/32 parts and am having trouble with all of the internal functions. How can I export a function from one object to another? I have tried declairing the internal functions in a header and its still not working. Forgive me I am still new to this. Here is a mini-example of what I am talking about. fubar32.c /********fu internal function*********/ void fu() { do stuff } /*******Bar[A/W] Win32 function*******/ STDCALL BarW() { fu("importing fu in to barW\n"); } Next I have a Win16 function that needs to import fu. How can I export it? fubar16.c and then in the win16 file we import the fu function/ /************Bar16***********/ PASCAL bar16() { fu("importing fu for Win16 function"); } Thanks Steven

2 1

Fw: Re: [latest cvs] Yet more GTA3 errors.
by erwin wolff May 22, 2003

May 22, 2003

Hi, Thanks for the device.c. GTA3 still crashes in a fatal exception when starting a level ;(. But this time it produces an other error than before :) : fixme:d3d:IDirect3D8Impl_CheckDeviceFormat (0x402a5380)->(Adptr:0, DevType:(1,D3DDEVTYPE_HAL), AdptFmt:(23,D3DFMT_R5G6B5), Use:(0,none), ResTyp:(3,D3DRTYPE_TEXTURE), CheckFmt:(41,D3DFMT_P8)) fixme:d3d:IDirect3DDevice8Impl_SetPaletteEntries (0x402e5e70) : setting p[41] <= RGBA(00,00,00,ff) fixme:dialog:MSGBOX_OnInit task modal msgbox ! Not modal yet. wine: Unhandled exception, starting debugger... At the ingame menu it produces this fixme: fixme:d3d:IDirect3DDevice8Impl_SetCurrentTexturePalette >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 500 from glColorTableEXT @ device.c / 4437 fixme:d3d:IDirect3DDevice8Impl_SetCurrentTexturePalette (0x402e5e60) : Setting to (48) fixme:d3d:IDirect3DDevice8Impl_SetCurrentTexturePalette >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 500 from glColorTableEXT @ device.c / 4437 The menu textures still don't look nice but it is much better than before :). If you want a screenshot, just ask. --------------------------------------------- erwin wolff erwinwolffnl(a)microformatica.com

2 1

-fexceptions? -fasync-unwind-tables?
by Gregory M. Turner May 22, 2003

May 22, 2003

OK, as you may have guessed, I'm still driving myself insane trying to fix __try and friends. I have some other less promising ideas on the backburner; this one seemed to have sufficient potential that I thought I would ask the group to let me know what they think. In short: gcc accepts the above options. The first, is considered to be a C++ compatibility mode in C. That is to say, it provides the right glue such that exceptions can unwind through calls to C libraries. If /any/ library in the call-chain leaves this option out, I'm afraid it breaks down. The second, -fasync-unwind-tables, provides "dwarf2 unwind tables". I've looked through the dwarf2 spec and some other sources, but I have yet to find solid documentation for this... perhaps it's a "use the source, Luke" situation. But this second option promises "instruction-granularity" unwind tables of some kind. IOW, presumably, this would be enough to implement __try and friends without looking beyond the stack pointer. As for the idea of stealing the return pointer on the stack. I like it even less now. It appears that signal handlers are allowed to clobber the stack above the SP on some architectures, which means we're pretty much up a creek. There still might be some ultra-clever work-around involving copying the current stack frame, but I think we would at least have to create our own trampolines in asm, which, I fear, might break in subsequent gcc releases... So... anybody know where these options are actually documented? I mean, I see the blurb in the info pages, which is enticing, but surely there is some API or datastructure to look at somewhere.... -- "Security is mostly superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing. To keep our faces toward change and behave like free spirits in the presence of fate is strength undefeatable." --Helen Keller gmt

4 7

TAB doesn't work for controls anymore
by Gerhard W. Gruber May 22, 2003

May 22, 2003

Since a few days I noticed that you can't use TAB anymore to cycle through controls. I noticed that when using Forte Agent, because I can't use the keyboard to switch from To: to Subject and so on. Any ideas what has been changed? -- Gerhard Gruber Für jedes menschliche Problem gibt es immer eine einfache Lösung: Klar, einleuchtend und falsch. (Henry Louis Mencken)

8 18

Re : Fix sound3d compile problem
by Sylvain Petreolle May 22, 2003

May 22, 2003

I dont understand why this patch fixes anything, this is a noop ? - TRACE("(%p)\n",ds3db); /* volume, at which the sound will be played after all calcs. */ D3DVALUE lVolume = 0; @@ -205,6 +204,7 @@ D3DVALUE flFreq, flBufferVel, flListenerVel; #endif + TRACE("(%p)\n",ds3db); ===== Sylvain Petreolle (spetreolle at users dot sourceforge dot net) ICQ #170597259 No more War ! "What if tomorrow the War could be over ?" Morpheus, in "Reloaded". For the Law of Oil and Fire, Im an European that lives in France. For all my Brothers and friends, Im a human living on Earth. ___________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en français ! Yahoo! Mail : http://fr.mail.yahoo.com

3 2

Speaking about the Putty Regression
by Carlos Lozano May 22, 2003

May 22, 2003

Hello, The line what is produccing the regression is: void X11DRV_SetWindowStyle( HWND hwnd, LONG oldStyle ) { Display *display = thread_display(); WND *wndPtr; LONG changed; if (hwnd == GetDesktopWindow()) return; if (!(wndPtr = WIN_GetPtr( hwnd ))) return; if (wndPtr == WND_OTHER_PROCESS) return; changed = wndPtr->dwStyle ^ oldStyle; if (changed & WS_VISIBLE) { if (!IsRectEmpty( &wndPtr->rectWindow ) && !is_window_top_level(wndPtr)) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Before of the regression it was: if (!IsRectEmpty( &wndPtr->rectWindow )) Regards, Carlos. -- ___ _ \ | / Consulting | . |._ _ _| | ___ ___ ___ http://www.andago.com | || ' |/ . |<_> |/ . |/ . \__ GNU/Linux |_|_||_|_|\___|<___|\_. |\___/ _ \ __|\ \ / Carlos A. Lozano <___'/ | \ -_) __/\__ \ > < -_) [ carlos.lozano(a)andago.com ]\___|_| ____/ _/\_\___| [ calb(a)epsxe.com ] http://www.ePSXe.com

1 0

Re: int21 testing
by Jukka Heinonen May 22, 2003

May 22, 2003

Ferenc Wagner wrote: > is there a way to incorporate DOS interrupt testing in the > conformance testing framework? I recall that I saw some > comments that Win32 applications should not be able to call > DOS interrupts. But it should be testable at least... Now > I have separate DOS16 programs for that. Win32 application cannot call interrupts directly. You could use VWIN32 VxD to call some interrupts (int21 for example) and this should even work under Win95/Win98/WinMe. It could even be possible that this works under WinXP, if it has emulation code for supporting old applications, but I doubt it. -- Jukka Heinonen <http://www.iki.fi/jhei/>

2 3

Today's meeting
by Dimitrie O. Paun May 21, 2003

May 21, 2003

Hi guys, To clarify: -- channel is #winemeet on freenode.net (I use the asimov.freenode.net server) -- time is 3 EDT (1900 UTC) -- a few of us should log the session (BTW, how do you log a session?) I am there now, but I will not have too much time to chat until the regular meeting starts. -- Dimi.

4 5