[Bug 45311] New: Skyrim Special Edition: ambient sounds do not attenuate with distance

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45311

Bug ID: 45311
           Summary: Skyrim Special Edition: ambient sounds do not
                    attenuate with distance
           Product: Wine
           Version: 3.9
          Hardware: x86-64
                OS: Linux
            Status: UNCONFIRMED
          Severity: normal
          Priority: P2
         Component: xaudio2
          Assignee: [e-mail]
          Reporter: [e-mail]
      Distribution: ---

In Skyrim SE, ambient sounds are supposed to attenuate based on the camera's
distance from the source, so that distant sounds will be barely perceptible,
nearby sounds will be loud and clear, and moving closer or farther from the
source will gradually change the sound's volume accordingly.

When running on wine with builtin xaudio, distance attenuation does not work;
any time the camera enters a certain (fairly distant) radius from a sound
source, that sound will suddenly start playing at full volume, as if the source
was in the player's ear. This results in disturbing situations like startlingly
loud footsteps and voices produced by distant NPCs, or a sudden roar of water
rushing the moment the player crosses an invisible threshold in the vicinity of
a river.

When running with Microsoft's native 64-bit xaudio libs, distance attenuation
works properly.

Note: While winetricks xact is probably the easiest way to install the native
xaudio libs for testing purposes, recent versions of winetricks do not install
the 64-bit versions. (See wine bug 41618#c5.)  Reverting this commit is
therefore necessary in order to get the libs needed for Skyrim SE's 64-bit
executable:
https://github.com/Winetricks/winetricks/commit/f2b3d268d941120d13b4c3c3960b...

I have identified a few locations in the early part of game where this bug is
prominent:

1. A point on the road from Helgen to Riverwood where the rumbling of a nearby
river cuts in suddenly as the player approaches it.
2. A point on the same road, closer to the river, where the whooshing of
rushing water cuts in suddenly as the player approaches.
3. A point in Riverwood where the creaking of the wooden water wheel cuts in at
full volume as the player approaches.

When standing at any of these points, one can hear the ambient sounds cut in
and out either by walking closer/farther from the sound source, or by zooming
out to third-person view and rotating the camera around the player, such that
the camera enters/exits the sound's radius.

I will attach screen shots showing these locations.

[Bug 45311] Skyrim Special Edition: ambient sounds do not attenuate with distance

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45311

--- Comment #1 from Forest  ---
Created attachment 61584
  --> https://bugs.winehq.org/attachment.cgi?id=61584
map of general area where these locations can be found

[Bug 45311] Skyrim Special Edition: ambient sounds do not attenuate with distance

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45311

--- Comment #2 from Forest  ---
Created attachment 61585
  --> https://bugs.winehq.org/attachment.cgi?id=61585
sound threshold 1: river water rumbling

[Bug 45311] Skyrim Special Edition: ambient sounds do not attenuate with distance

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45311

--- Comment #3 from Forest  ---
Created attachment 61586
  --> https://bugs.winehq.org/attachment.cgi?id=61586
sound threshold 2: river water rushing

[Bug 45311] Skyrim Special Edition: ambient sounds do not attenuate with distance

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45311

--- Comment #4 from Forest  ---
Created attachment 61587
  --> https://bugs.winehq.org/attachment.cgi?id=61587
sound threshold 3: water wheel creaking

[Bug 45311] Skyrim Special Edition: ambient sounds do not attenuate with distance

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45311

Andrew Eikum  changed:

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[Bug 45311] Skyrim Special Edition: ambient sounds do not attenuate with distance

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45311

Olivier F. R. Dierick  changed:

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--- Comment #5 from Olivier F. R. Dierick  ---
I don't have Skyrim but I'm experiencing the same issue with at least two other
games: Orion Prelude and Far Cry 3.

Environment sounds (river/water, wind, fire, etc.) are full volume and cuts in
and out when walking towards/away from the source. Normally, the sound volume
should decrease/increase smoothly with distance.

commit b747d6f6ccdf1699a9242a570d681fa246de592e is the culprit.
It makes xaudio2 default to builtin.

The workaround is to set xaudio2_7 to "native, builtin".
Does it work with Skyrim?

[Bug 45311] Skyrim Special Edition: ambient sounds do not attenuate with distance

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45311

--- Comment #6 from Olivier F. R. Dierick  ---
(In reply to Olivier F. R. Dierick from comment #5)
> The workaround is to set xaudio2_7 to "native, builtin".
> Does it work with Skyrim?

I mean without installing xact with winetricks.

[Bug 45311] Skyrim Special Edition: ambient sounds do not attenuate with distance

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45311

--- Comment #7 from Andrew Eikum  ---
(In reply to Olivier F. R. Dierick from comment #5)
> commit b747d6f6ccdf1699a9242a570d681fa246de592e is the culprit.
> It makes xaudio2 default to builtin.
>
> The workaround is to set xaudio2_7 to "native, builtin".
> Does it work with Skyrim?

Many games include the redist stuff themselves, so you will still get the
native xaudio2 components without using winetricks. This is why you are able to
work around this by using native xaudio2_7 without using winetricks. The commit
you mention means we always use Wine's xaudio2 even when a native xaudio2 is
available. This is to work around Bug 38668. As you found, you can override
this setting in order to use native to get the old behavior from before b747d6.
If it doesn't crash for you, using native is a fine workaround.

I'm working on a fix for the Skyrim bug mentioned here. I haven't looked at
Orion or FarCry 3, so I don't know if this fix will help them.

[Bug 45311] Skyrim Special Edition: ambient sounds do not attenuate with distance

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45311

--- Comment #8 from Olivier F. R. Dierick  ---
(In reply to Andrew Eikum from comment #7)
> (In reply to Olivier F. R. Dierick from comment #5)
> > Does it work with Skyrim?
>
> Many games include the redist stuff themselves, so you will still get the
> native xaudio2 components without using winetricks. This is why you are able
> to work around this by using native xaudio2_7 without using winetricks. The
> commit you mention means we always use Wine's xaudio2 even when a native
> xaudio2 is available. This is to work around Bug 38668. As you found, you
> can override this setting in order to use native to get the old behavior
> from before b747d6. If it doesn't crash for you, using native is a fine
> workaround.

Ok, thanks. I was just trying to help the OP with a workaround.
I didn't know about bug 38668 and the crash with native xaudio2.
Shouldn't this bug 'Depends on' bug 38668?
> I'm working on a fix for the Skyrim bug mentioned here. I haven't looked at
> Orion or FarCry 3, so I don't know if this fix will help them.

I will test and report back.

[Bug 45311] Skyrim Special Edition: ambient sounds do not attenuate with distance

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45311

[e-mail] changed:

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[Bug 45311] Skyrim Special Edition: ambient sounds do not attenuate with distance

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45311

Mike Matis  changed:

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--- Comment #9 from Mike Matis  ---
I am experiencing the distance attenuation issue exactly as described by
Forest. I'm using the xaudio2_7 patch from Bug #39402 by Andrew Eikum that
makes sound work in builtin mode. I get no sound at all on native. Is it
possible the problem is actually caused by another dll, like x3daudio?

[Bug 45311] Skyrim Special Edition: ambient sounds do not attenuate with distance

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45311

--- Comment #10 from Olivier F. R. Dierick  ---
(In reply to Mike Matis from comment #9)
> I am experiencing the distance attenuation issue exactly as described by
> Forest. I'm using the xaudio2_7 patch from Bug #39402 by Andrew Eikum that
> makes sound work in builtin mode.

The patch from bug 39402 fixes sound conversion for a few formats. It is
unrelated to the attenuation of sound.

(In reply to Mike Matis from comment #9)
> I get no sound at all on native.

Skyrim does not ship native xaudio2 DLLs. You'll have to install xact with
winetricks to get native xaudio2 DLLs in Skyrim. See the note from Forest in
comment 0 about installing 64-bit xact with winetricks.

(In reply to Mike Matis from comment #9)
> Is it
> possible the problem is actually caused by another dll, like x3daudio?

If setting xaudio2_7 to native does fix the issue (with proper native xaudio2
DLLs installed), then the issue is with builtin xaudio2_7. If you still have
sound attenuation issue with native xaudio2_7 then you may have another issue
and you should report that separately, but try installing native xaudio2 first.

[Bug 45311] Skyrim Special Edition: ambient sounds do not attenuate with distance

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45311

--- Comment #11 from Mike Matis  ---
> Skyrim does not ship native xaudio2 DLLs. You'll have to install xact with
> winetricks to get native xaudio2 DLLs in Skyrim. See the note from Forest in
> comment 0 about installing 64-bit xact with winetricks.

I can't believe I missed that. I completely misunderstood it the first time I
read it. Got a winetricks from prior to that commit, installed native xact libs
and the sound is working perfectly. Thank you!

[Bug 45311] Skyrim Special Edition: ambient sounds do not attenuate with distance

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45311

[e-mail] changed:

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[Bug 45311] Skyrim Special Edition: ambient sounds do not attenuate with distance

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45311

Andrew  changed:

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--- Comment #12 from Andrew  ---
(In reply to Mike Matis from comment #11)
> > Skyrim does not ship native xaudio2 DLLs. You'll have to install xact with
> > winetricks to get native xaudio2 DLLs in Skyrim. See the note from Forest in
> > comment 0 about installing 64-bit xact with winetricks.
>
> I can't believe I missed that. I completely misunderstood it the first time
> I read it. Got a winetricks from prior to that commit, installed native xact
> libs and the sound is working perfectly. Thank you!

Correct me if I'm wrong, based on Oliver's comment does this mean that this
ticket is a duplicate of https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39402 ?

Or is there something specific to Skyrim to manifest this bug in xaudio?

Furthermore, Oliver would you be interested in writing a how-to to post on the
wineappdb page found here?
https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=34366

I would really appreciate that as I'm the maintainer for this game but have
issues with audio as well.

[Bug 45311] Skyrim Special Edition: ambient sounds do not attenuate with distance

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45311

--- Comment #13 from Forest  ---
> Correct me if I'm wrong, based on Oliver's comment does this mean that this
> ticket is a duplicate of https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39402 ?

Not a duplicate. That other bug is about supporting different audio
formats/encodings. This one is about playing sounds at the correct volume.

[Bug 45311] Skyrim Special Edition: ambient sounds do not attenuate with distance

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45311

--- Comment #14 from Andrew  ---
(In reply to Forest from comment #13)
> > Correct me if I'm wrong, based on Oliver's comment does this mean that this
> > ticket is a duplicate of https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39402 ?
>
> Not a duplicate. That other bug is about supporting different audio
> formats/encodings. This one is about playing sounds at the correct volume.

Ah, you are correct. The reason I got that flubbed up was because of some
similar issues with audio that have affected the Wolfenstein games.

This Skyrim SE ticket describes in detail test results that a user had posted
on the Wolfenstein: The New Order page a while back, have a read:
https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=31803

I'm curious if the root cause of the audio attenuation problem in Skyrim will
fix some of the crashing issues noted in Wolfenstein. Some input from a
developer would be appreciated.

[Bug 45311] Skyrim Special Edition: ambient sounds do not attenuate with distance

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45311

--- Comment #15 from Andrew Eikum  ---
(In reply to Andrew from comment #14)
> I'm curious if the root cause of the audio attenuation problem in Skyrim
> will fix some of the crashing issues noted in Wolfenstein. Some input from a
> developer would be appreciated.

Native (Microsoft's) xaudio2 has a crash bug in Wine on 64-bit. This is Bug
38668. You can read the analysis of the problem there.

Built-in (Wine's) xaudio2 does not yet do volume mixing correctly, which is
what this bug is about.

I'm not aware of any crashes in Wolfenstein or Skyrim due to built-in xaudio2.
If there are crashes due to built-in xaudio2, those should be filed as separate
bugs.

Hope that clears things up.

[Bug 45311] Skyrim Special Edition: ambient sounds do not attenuate with distance

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45311

--- Comment #16 from Andrew Eikum  ---
I should add, built-in xaudio2 also does not support WMA audio. This can result
in some game audio missing, or in crashes. This is bug 39402. There is a patch
available to use ffmpeg to work around this, and the patch is in wine-staging.

[Bug 45311] Skyrim Special Edition: ambient sounds do not attenuate with distance

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45311

Joel Holdsworth  changed:

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[Bug 45311] Skyrim Special Edition: ambient sounds do not attenuate with distance

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45311

~J~  changed:

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--- Comment #17 from ~J~  ---
*** Bug 45781 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

[Bug 45311] Skyrim Special Edition: ambient sounds do not attenuate with distance

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45311

C0rn3j  changed:

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[Bug 45311] Skyrim Special Edition: ambient sounds do not attenuate with distance

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Kai Krakow  changed:

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--- Comment #18 from Kai Krakow  ---
Maybe this is due to the following functions not being implemented at all?

004a:trace:xaudio2:XA2SRC_SetOutputMatrix 0x7f7d63036500, 0x3a11a728, 1, 6,
0x7f7e14d663d8, 0x0
004a:trace:xaudio2:XA2SRC_SetOutputMatrix 0x7f7d63036500, 0x3a161d48, 1, 2,
0x3af5fb10, 0x0
004a:trace:xaudio2:XA2SRC_SetOutputFilterParameters 0x7f7d63036500, 0x3a11a728,
0x3af5fb00, 0x0

Shouldn't it say "fixme...: stub" then instead?

[Bug 45311] Skyrim Special Edition: ambient sounds do not attenuate with distance

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45311

--- Comment #19 from Kai Krakow  ---
Continuing my previous comment, I've played with this a little bit:

It's part of the solution. Skyrim uses the output matrix to upmix mono samples
to the computer audio system (6 channels here). Voice samples will upmix to two
channels, ambient sound upmix to 6 channels. They are played non-directional.

004b:trace:xaudio2_matrix:XA2SRC_SetOutputMatrix
-- *pLevelMatrix = {0.250206,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.368162,0.000000}
004b:trace:xaudio2_matrix:XA2SRC_SetOutputMatrix
-- *pLevelMatrix = {0.573172,0.573172}

It's always the same values per sample no matter which direction I'm facing. So
it's also not really handling the volume. Calculating an RMS from the values to
prevent hard cut-offs and attenuation to the "main volume" has some effect:
Ambient sounds now don't simply pop in and out but they attenuate with
decreasing distance, strange is: This happens in steps, it's not smooth.

So actually Skyrim puts some volume information here. But it also sets an
output filter which is also not implemented.

Ambient voices from NPCs tho still have the same issue: You can hear all
talking NPC nearby as if talking face to face. Skyrim also tries to apply an
output filter here.

What I think the filter should be doing is: After upmixing, the filter will
arrange the sample spatially across your speakers. Voices would always use two
virtual speakers so voice would come from the front. Ambient sounds always
distribute the sound around you with attenuation from one direction. The filter
probably should position the sound source spatially and also apply some filters
for volume and some frequency pass filters (sounds farther away should fade out
in the lower spectrum later).

Upmixing is a problem with OpenAL (which is used by xaudio2): It simply has no
interface for that (only downmixing via spatial extensions). But we could
probably infer an attenuation direction from the output matrix, and then set a
direction of the sound source - but I'm pretty sure this won't be easy...
That's more or less where my skills end currently.

[Bug 45311] Skyrim Special Edition: ambient sounds do not attenuate with distance

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45311

--- Comment #20 from Kai Krakow  ---
Created attachment 62499
  --> https://bugs.winehq.org/attachment.cgi?id=62499
NOT A FIX: patch for toying around

Please do not apply if you don't want to use it for further debugging. It
doesn't fix anything and probably has bad side-effects in other games.

[Bug 45311] Skyrim Special Edition: ambient sounds do not attenuate with distance

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45311

Steven Noonan  changed:

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[Bug 45311] Skyrim Special Edition: ambient sounds do not attenuate with distance

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pattietreutel  changed:

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[Bug 45311] Skyrim Special Edition: ambient sounds do not attenuate with distance

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Ethan Lee  changed:

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--- Comment #21 from Ethan Lee  ---
Wine 4.3 has a new XAudio2 and X3DAudio implementation that should include
proper attenuation.

As far as Wine's concerned this should be RESOLVED FIXED, but FAudio's 3D math
may not be 100% accurate and the game uses xWMA extensively, and we can only
support that with special FAudio builds that link to FFmpeg.

[Bug 45311] Skyrim Special Edition: ambient sounds do not attenuate with distance

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45311

--- Comment #22 from Forest  ---
Thanks, Ethan! Thanks, Andrew! <3

[Bug 45311] Skyrim Special Edition: ambient sounds do not attenuate with distance

[WineHQ Bugzilla]

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45311

Anya  changed:

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--- Comment #23 from Anya  ---
Still a problem with latest faudio from proton.

[Bug 45311] Skyrim Special Edition: ambient sounds do not attenuate with distance

[WineHQ Bugzilla]

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45311

mirh  changed:

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--- Comment #24 from mirh  ---
Is it good now?
Or it could be one of the few things still left I guess. 
https://github.com/FNA-XNA/FAudio/issues/42

[Bug 45311] Skyrim Special Edition: ambient sounds do not attenuate with distance

[WineHQ Bugzilla]

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45311

[e-mail] changed:

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[Bug 45311] Skyrim Special Edition: ambient sounds do not attenuate with distance

[WineHQ Bugzilla]

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45311

soredake  changed:

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