[Bug 39814] New: choppy pulseaudio after ->Remove legacy pulseaudio/alsa latency workaround (closes: #807403).

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39814

Bug ID: 39814
           Summary: choppy pulseaudio after ->Remove legacy
                    pulseaudio/alsa latency workaround (closes: #807403).
           Product: Wine
           Version: 1.8-rc4
          Hardware: x86
                OS: Linux
            Status: UNCONFIRMED
          Severity: normal
          Priority: P2
         Component: -unknown
          Assignee: [e-mail]
          Reporter: [e-mail]
      Distribution: ---

After 1.8-rc4 on debian testing my REAPER DAW sound is choppy and noisy.

I use it for long time (years), and had no problems until this workaround
(#807403) they removed.

Thanks, and sorry for my bad english. :(

[Bug 39814] choppy pulseaudio after ->Remove legacy pulseaudio/alsa latency workaround (closes: #807403).

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39814

--- Comment #1 from Rosanne DiMesio  ---
Does the problem also exist with the WineHQ packages?
https://forum.winehq.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=25767

[Bug 39814] choppy pulseaudio after ->Remove legacy pulseaudio/alsa latency workaround (closes: #807403).

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39814

--- Comment #2 from nexxxxen  ---
(In reply to Rosanne DiMesio from comment #1)
> Does the problem also exist with the WineHQ packages?
> https://forum.winehq.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=25767

Not tested.Probably a Debian package problem...

I'm using at the moment
PULSE_LATENCY_MSEC=40 wine e:/REAPER/reaper.exe
with good results. pulseaudio does not eats CPU anymore.

Thanks, and sorry for not to be more helping on debug.

[Bug 39814] choppy pulseaudio after ->Remove legacy pulseaudio/alsa latency workaround (closes: #807403).

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39814

--- Comment #3 from Rosanne DiMesio  ---
Please test the WineHQ package.

[Bug 39814] choppy pulseaudio after ->Remove legacy pulseaudio/alsa latency workaround (closes: #807403).

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39814

--- Comment #4 from nexxxxen  ---
(In reply to Rosanne DiMesio from comment #3)
> Please test the WineHQ package.

Tested and problems persists...

I have purged all wine debian packages, and instaled official winehq-devel
folowing instructions from you
(https://forum.winehq.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=25767)

Exact same problems:

General audio is choppy for about 3min and after this, sound improves, but
still it sounds slightly bad.

Trying mentioned workaround (PULSE_LATENCY_MSEC=40 wine e:/REAPER/reaper.exe)
it fixes all problems, even what it was once high pulseaudio CPU use i
It is significantly reduced

¿Can I help you trying some test?

I am almost illiterate in linux
but I can try it with your help

Tanks again

::: nexxxxen :::

[Bug 39814] choppy pulseaudio after ->Remove legacy pulseaudio/alsa latency workaround (closes: #807403).

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39814

Sebastian Lackner  changed:

What    |Removed                     |Added
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                 CC|                            |[e-mail]

--- Comment #5 from Sebastian Lackner  ---
Could you please attach terminal output with the WINEDEBUG environment variable
set to "+dsound,+pulse,+alsa"? For example:

WINEDEBUG=+dsound,+pulse,+alsa wine app.exe

Also, which audio backend is visible in the audio tab of winecfg? If its
winealsa.drv, you probably added a registry key to override the audio driver in
the past. It is recommended to remove such registry keys, and use the new
winepulse.drv audio driver, which has better compatibility with PulseAudio.

[Bug 39814] choppy pulseaudio after ->Remove legacy pulseaudio/alsa latency workaround (closes: #807403).

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39814

--- Comment #6 from nexxxxen  ---
Created attachment 53155
  --> https://bugs.winehq.org/attachment.cgi?id=53155
WINEDEBUG=+dsound,+pulse,+alsa wine e:\REAPER\reaper.exe &>wine.log

[Bug 39814] choppy pulseaudio after ->Remove legacy pulseaudio/alsa latency workaround (closes: #807403).

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39814

--- Comment #7 from nexxxxen  ---
(In reply to Sebastian Lackner from comment #5)
> Could you please attach terminal output with the WINEDEBUG environment
> variable set to "+dsound,+pulse,+alsa"? For example:
>
> WINEDEBUG=+dsound,+pulse,+alsa wine app.exe
>
> Also, which audio backend is visible in the audio tab of winecfg? If its
> winealsa.drv, you probably added a registry key to override the audio driver
> in the past. It is recommended to remove such registry keys, and use the new
> winepulse.drv audio driver, which has better compatibility with PulseAudio.

Audio backend is pulseaudio. In audio tab of winecfg all values are
"Predeterminado del sistema" (system default) I tried set to pulse with same
results...

Installation of winehq-devel is fresh and clean, after having purged
wine-debian packages. No registry keys manually added.

The debug-log are infinite. Attached file are for run DAW and close it almos
immediately, sorry.

Any sugerences?

[Bug 39814] Choppy audio with pulseaudio after PULSE_LATENCY_MSEC workaround was removed in Debian packages

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39814

Sebastian Lackner  changed:

What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 CC|                            |[e-mail]
          Component|-unknown                    |winepulse.drv
            Summary|choppy pulseaudio after     |Choppy audio with
                   |->Remove legacy             |pulseaudio after
                   |pulseaudio/alsa latency     |PULSE_LATENCY_MSEC
                   |workaround (closes:         |workaround was removed in
                   |#807403).                   |Debian packages

[Bug 39814] Choppy audio with pulseaudio after PULSE_LATENCY_MSEC workaround was removed in Debian packages

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39814

Sebastian Lackner  changed:

What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
           See Also|                            |https://bugs.winehq.org/sho
                   |                            |w_bug.cgi?id=39744

--- Comment #8 from Sebastian Lackner  ---
(In reply to nexxxxen from comment #6)
> Created attachment 53155 [details]
> WINEDEBUG=+dsound,+pulse,+alsa wine e:\REAPER\reaper.exe &>wine.log

Thanks for the log. Theoretically 1.8-rc4 and greater should contain a warning
message when the PulseAudio buffer is too small, but there is no such message
in your attachment. Could you please double check that "wine --version" gives
the expected result?

[Bug 39814] Choppy audio with pulseaudio after PULSE_LATENCY_MSEC workaround was removed in Debian packages

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39814

--- Comment #9 from nexxxxen  ---
(In reply to Sebastian Lackner from comment #8)
> (In reply to nexxxxen from comment #6)
> > Created attachment 53155 [details]
> > WINEDEBUG=+dsound,+pulse,+alsa wine e:\REAPER\reaper.exe &>wine.log
>
> Thanks for the log. Theoretically 1.8-rc4 and greater should contain a
> warning message when the PulseAudio buffer is too small, but there is no
> such message in your attachment. Could you please double check that "wine
> --version" gives the expected result?

nex@nexus:~$ wine --version
wine-1.8

installed yesterday

[Bug 39814] Choppy audio with pulseaudio after PULSE_LATENCY_MSEC workaround was removed in Debian packages

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39814

--- Comment #10 from nexxxxen  ---
(In reply to nexxxxen from comment #9)
> (In reply to Sebastian Lackner from comment #8)
> > (In reply to nexxxxen from comment #6)
> > > Created attachment 53155 [details]
> > > WINEDEBUG=+dsound,+pulse,+alsa wine e:\REAPER\reaper.exe &>wine.log
> >
> > Thanks for the log. Theoretically 1.8-rc4 and greater should contain a
> > warning message when the PulseAudio buffer is too small, but there is no
> > such message in your attachment. Could you please double check that "wine
> > --version" gives the expected result?
>
> nex@nexus:~$ wine --version
> wine-1.8
>
> installed yesterday

apparently, buffer negotiation never arrives a good result, and restart in a
loop

[Bug 39814] Choppy audio with pulseaudio after PULSE_LATENCY_MSEC workaround was removed in Debian packages

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39814

[e-mail] changed:

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                 CC|                            |[e-mail]

--- Comment #11 from [e-mail] ---
(In reply to Sebastian Lackner from comment #8)
> Could you please double check that "wine
> --version" gives the expected result?

This will give the same output for debian.org and winehq deb packages
(wine-1.8).

To double check that indeed all other packages were purged I'd use:
  dpkg -l "*wine*"
Lines beginning with "ii" indicate an installed package, lines beginning with
"un" a not installed package.

Note that this command might not show all not-installed packages (e.g. in tests
here I only saw the wine-devel packages in its output if they were installed).

[Bug 39814] Choppy audio with pulseaudio after PULSE_LATENCY_MSEC workaround was removed in Debian packages

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39814

--- Comment #12 from Andrew Eikum  ---
Thanks for the nice bug report!

This actually looks like a bug in Reaper that the large buffer size was
covering up.

Reaper asks for a buffer of length 0x1a0ab REFERENCE_TIMEs, which is 0.0106667
seconds. I'm not sure how this number is derived, but it at least uses the
result of GetDevicePeriod.

0034:trace:pulse:AudioClient_Initialize (0x17d450)->(0, 40000, 1a0ab, 0,
0x192a0fc, (null))

And PA honors this, giving us a buffer of the same size (expressed here in
bytes at 8bps and 48 kHz):

0034:trace:pulse:dump_attr tlength: 4104

Then Reaper grabs the buffer size and fills the whole buffer:

0034:trace:pulse:AudioClient_GetBufferSize (0x17d450)->(0xc83e910)
0034:trace:pulse:AudioRenderClient_GetBuffer (0x17d450)->(512, 0xc83e8c4)

But, next time it tries to write:

0034:trace:pulse:AudioClient_GetCurrentPadding 0x17d450 Pad: 11 ms (512)
0034:trace:pulse:AudioRenderClient_GetBuffer (0x17d450)->(512, 0xc83e8c4)
0034:warn:pulse:AudioRenderClient_GetBuffer Wanted to write 512, but only 1
available

winepulse is telling the application "512 samples of our 512 sample buffer are
occupied," but then Repear tries to write 512 samples into the full buffer!
That can't work. They're mistakenly using the size of the data in the buffer as
the amount of free space in the buffer.

You see the same bug with each GetBuffer call after that until the buffer is
less than half full, at which point the request succeeds. But that's just
~0.005 seconds of data in the buffer, so we hear underruns.

I tested Reaper out with PULSE_LATENCY_MSEC=60 and saw the same broken
behavior. The reason it sounds better is because the period size is larger, so
the requested buffer size is much larger, which means the half-full buffer
doesn't underrun.

So, this is an application bug exposed by our support for very low buffer
sizes. I suspect in practice Windows devices don't claim the low latency that
winepulse does, or somehow otherwise mask this bug.

[Bug 39814] Choppy audio with pulseaudio after PULSE_LATENCY_MSEC workaround was removed in Debian packages

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39814

--- Comment #13 from Andrew Eikum  ---
Actually, this might not be an application bug. Reaper tries to write in period
sizes. This can sometimes fail due to clock skew, which is what I was seeing in
the 60 ms case.

In the failing case, our claimed minimum period size is unrealistically low,
just one frame (1 / 48000 seconds). Reaper understandably can't handle that.
Setting PULSE_LATENCY_MSEC causes winepulse to return a more realistic period
size (1.6 ms) which Reaper is able to handle.

I wonder if we should clamp this value to something more realistic.

[Bug 39814] Choppy audio with pulseaudio after PULSE_LATENCY_MSEC workaround was removed in Debian packages

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39814

--- Comment #14 from Andrew Eikum  ---
I made some improvements in this area in current wine-git. Can someone retest
with this or the next release?

[Bug 39814] Choppy audio with pulseaudio after PULSE_LATENCY_MSEC workaround was removed in Debian packages

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39814

Andrew Eikum  changed:

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                 CC|                            |[e-mail]

--- Comment #15 from Andrew Eikum  ---
*** Bug 40203 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

[Bug 39814] Choppy audio with pulseaudio after PULSE_LATENCY_MSEC workaround was removed in Debian packages

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39814

--- Comment #16 from Engys  ---
Awesome! I build Wine from Git master and yes you fixed it! Thank you!

[Bug 39814] Choppy audio with pulseaudio after PULSE_LATENCY_MSEC workaround was removed in Debian packages

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39814

--- Comment #17 from Engys  ---
But after all I need to say that audio quality is still better (less crackling)
if I disable winepulse.drv and using Alsa instead.

[Bug 39814] Choppy audio with pulseaudio after PULSE_LATENCY_MSEC workaround was removed in Debian packages

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39814

Robert Munteanu  changed:

What    |Removed                     |Added
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                 CC|                            |[e-mail]

[Bug 39814] Choppy audio with pulseaudio after PULSE_LATENCY_MSEC workaround was removed in Debian packages

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39814

Johan Gardhage  changed:

What    |Removed                     |Added
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                 CC|                            |[e-mail]

[Bug 39814] Choppy audio with pulseaudio after PULSE_LATENCY_MSEC workaround was removed in Debian packages

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39814

[e-mail] changed:

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                 CC|                            |[e-mail]

--- Comment #18 from [e-mail] ---
(In reply to Engys from comment #17)
> But after all I need to say that audio quality is still better (less
> crackling) if I disable winepulse.drv and using Alsa instead.

Could you retest newer wine?

[Bug 39814] Choppy audio with pulseaudio after PULSE_LATENCY_MSEC workaround was removed in Debian packages

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39814

[e-mail] changed:

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                 CC|                            |[e-mail]

--- Comment #19 from [e-mail] ---
wine-staging 3.16, game League of Legends. In client on buttons and champion
select there are lag at sounds. In-game sounds all ok.

[Bug 39814] Choppy audio with pulseaudio after PULSE_LATENCY_MSEC workaround was removed in Debian packages

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39814

Andrey  changed:

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                 CC|                            |andrey.aleksandrovich@googl
                   |                            |email.com

--- Comment #20 from Andrey  ---
I have the similar issue, but I don't sure it is the same.
I start Civilization II Multiplayer Gold Edition, and the sounds of player's
units (during playing) has frequent clicks and pops, occasional dropouts. While
the music (Audio CD tracks) is ok.

I made two video records of civ2 running on Wine
https://fs12n3.sendspace.com/dl/87245e41b08f8a2f61129297466a0e9e/5c4cb58034b...

and on Windows XP (normal playing).
https://fs13n1.sendspace.com/dl/feda2a50d26520036aebdb27ef958d46/5c4cb42163f...

Looks like the new sounds are started when the previous ones are not finished
yet.

[Bug 39814] Choppy audio with pulseaudio after PULSE_LATENCY_MSEC workaround was removed in Debian packages

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39814

--- Comment #21 from Andrey  ---
Gentoo Linux, Wine-4.0