[Bug 58637] New: SimCity 2000 Windows 95 edition doesn't launch

[WineHQ Bugzilla]

http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=58637

Bug ID: 58637
           Summary: SimCity 2000 Windows 95 edition doesn't launch
           Product: Wine
           Version: 10.13
          Hardware: x86-64
                OS: Linux
            Status: UNCONFIRMED
          Severity: normal
          Priority: P2
         Component: -unknown
          Assignee: [e-mail]
          Reporter: [e-mail]
      Distribution: ---

Created attachment 79198
  --> http://bugs.winehq.org/attachment.cgi?id=79198
Logs

The Windows 95 edition of SimCity 2000 (URL:
https://archive.org/details/sc2000_win95) doesn't launch. I remember it did
work in older versions of wine (I think 8.0) but I can't point out the exact
version it stopped working.

Steps to reproduce:
Launch the game directly (not the setup, it's 16-bit and it's known to be
problematic even on Windows. The game itself is 32-bit) 
WIN95/SC2K/SIMCITY.EXE

I tried https://github.com/sc2kfix/sc2kfix too which is a patch that gets the
game running on modern versions of Windows but it didn't make any difference.

My computer's technical specifications (although I don't think they matter, I
tried it with several different computers with different distros and got the
exact same error):

GPU:
0000:00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation TigerLake-LP GT2
[Iris Xe Graphics] (rev 01)
        Subsystem: Lenovo Device 3f9c
        Kernel driver in use: i915
        Kernel modules: i915, xe
CPU:
11th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-1135G7 (8) @ 4.20 GHz

Laptop Model:
82H8 (IdeaPad 3 15ITL6)

Kernel Version:
Linux 6.15.10-200.fc42.x86_64

Distribution:
Fedora 42 KDE Plasma Edition

[Bug 58637] SimCity 2000 Windows 95 edition doesn't launch

[WineHQ Bugzilla]

http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=58637

--- Comment #1 from [e-mail] ---
Created attachment 79199
  --> http://bugs.winehq.org/attachment.cgi?id=79199
Log with WINEDEBUG=+seh

[Bug 58637] SimCity 2000 Windows 95 edition doesn't launch

[WineHQ Bugzilla]

http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=58637

Stian Low  changed:

What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 CC|                            |[e-mail]

--- Comment #2 from Stian Low  ---
(In reply to ihatemylife0025 from comment #0)
> Created attachment 79198 [details]
> Logs
>
> The Windows 95 edition of SimCity 2000 (URL:
> https://archive.org/details/sc2000_win95) doesn't launch. I remember it did
> work in older versions of wine (I think 8.0) but I can't point out the exact
> version it stopped working.

I recently tested for Special Edition which worked (see screenshot):
https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46963

I'll try Windows 95 edition.

[Bug 58637] SimCity 2000 Windows 95 edition doesn't launch

[WineHQ Bugzilla]

http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=58637

--- Comment #3 from Stian Low  ---
(In reply to Stian Low from comment #2)
> I'll try Windows 95 edition.

My screenshot shows that its running from the win95 directory of Special
Edition: https://bugs.winehq.org/attachment.cgi?id=79079

Maybe there's still a difference between 95 and Special Edition despite sharing
file consistencies.

Otherwise something changed recently for Wine 10.13 from 10.12 that I tested
against.

[Bug 58637] SimCity 2000 Windows 95 edition doesn't launch

[WineHQ Bugzilla]

http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=58637

--- Comment #4 from [e-mail] ---
Created attachment 79203
  --> http://bugs.winehq.org/attachment.cgi?id=79203
Special edition logs

[Bug 58637] SimCity 2000 Windows 95 edition doesn't launch

[WineHQ Bugzilla]

http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=58637

--- Comment #5 from [e-mail] ---
(In reply to Stian Low from comment #3)
> (In reply to Stian Low from comment #2)
> > I'll try Windows 95 edition.
>
> My screenshot shows that its running from the win95 directory of Special
> Edition: https://bugs.winehq.org/attachment.cgi?id=79079
>
> Maybe there's still a difference between 95 and Special Edition despite
> sharing file consistencies.
>
> Otherwise something changed recently for Wine 10.13 from 10.12 that I tested
> against.

The special edition (URL:
https://archive.org/details/SimCity_2000_Special_Edition_Maxis_Inc._1996)
doesn't launch with the same error for me.

[Bug 58637] SimCity 2000 Windows 95 edition doesn't launch

[WineHQ Bugzilla]

http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=58637

[e-mail] changed:

What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
       Distribution|---                         |Fedora

--- Comment #6 from [e-mail] ---
I installed the latest 32-bit wine without wow64 and the game launched. So it's
very likely a wow64 mode specific issue and your version of wine probably isn't
compiled with it enabled.

[Bug 58637] SimCity 2000 Windows 95 edition doesn't launch in WoW64 mode

[WineHQ Bugzilla]

http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=58637

[e-mail] changed:

What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
            Summary|SimCity 2000 Windows 95     |SimCity 2000 Windows 95
                   |edition doesn't launch      |edition doesn't launch in
                   |                            |WoW64 mode

[Bug 58637] SimCity 2000 Windows 95 edition doesn't launch in WoW64 mode

[WineHQ Bugzilla]

http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=58637

--- Comment #7 from Stian Low  ---
(In reply to ihatemylife0025 from comment #6)
> I installed the latest 32-bit wine without wow64 and the game launched. So
> it's very likely a wow64 mode specific issue and your version of wine
> probably isn't compiled with it enabled.

My versions of wine are typically compiled according to:
https://gitlab.winehq.org/wine/wine/-/wikis/Building-Wine#shared-wow64

Thus wow64 mode was likely enabled with 32-bit support.

Debian apt packages don't seem to support GStreamer 32 and 64 bit dev files
simultaneously installed but other than that all other 64 and 32-bit libs were
satisfied for compiling shared-wow64 mode.

[Bug 58637] SimCity 2000 Windows 95 edition doesn't launch in WoW64 mode

[WineHQ Bugzilla]

http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=58637

--- Comment #8 from [e-mail] ---
(In reply to Stian Low from comment #7)
> (In reply to ihatemylife0025 from comment #6)
> > I installed the latest 32-bit wine without wow64 and the game launched. So
> > it's very likely a wow64 mode specific issue and your version of wine
> > probably isn't compiled with it enabled.
>
> My versions of wine are typically compiled according to:
> https://gitlab.winehq.org/wine/wine/-/wikis/Building-Wine#shared-wow64
>
> Thus wow64 mode was likely enabled with 32-bit support.
>
> Debian apt packages don't seem to support GStreamer 32 and 64 bit dev files
> simultaneously installed but other than that all other 64 and 32-bit libs
> were satisfied for compiling shared-wow64 mode.

Maybe then it's an issue with the official fedora builds (the ones from the
winehq repository)? I'm not sure I'm not a developer

[Bug 58637] SimCity 2000 Windows 95 edition doesn't launch in WoW64 mode

[WineHQ Bugzilla]

http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=58637

--- Comment #9 from Stian Low  ---
(In reply to ihatemylife0025 from comment #8)
> Maybe then it's an issue with the official fedora builds (the ones from the
> winehq repository)?

Maybe.

Please provide the link to the specific fedora build from WineHQ repo that you
are using.

[Bug 58637] SimCity 2000 Windows 95 edition doesn't launch in WoW64 mode

[WineHQ Bugzilla]

http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=58637

--- Comment #10 from [e-mail] ---
(In reply to Stian Low from comment #9)
> (In reply to ihatemylife0025 from comment #8)
> > Maybe then it's an issue with the official fedora builds (the ones from the
> > winehq repository)?
>
> Maybe.
>
> Please provide the link to the specific fedora build from WineHQ repo that
> you are using.

I followed the instructions from here
https://gitlab.winehq.org/wine/wine/-/wikis/Fedora
and installed winehq-devel

[Bug 58637] SimCity 2000 Windows 95 edition doesn't launch in WoW64 mode

[WineHQ Bugzilla]

http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=58637

--- Comment #11 from Stian Low  ---
(In reply to ihatemylife0025 from comment #10)
> I followed the instructions from here
> https://gitlab.winehq.org/wine/wine/-/wikis/Fedora
> and installed winehq-devel

Thanks for the links.

Based on: 
"Note: the Fedora 40 and later packages are built with "new WoW64"
architecture. Unlike the "old WoW64," these packages do not require a
separate install of the 32-bit wine-common package or any 32 bit
dependencies"

It does indeed seem that Fedora builds in a way that differs from how I do so
for Debian.

I'm less familiar with this "new WoW64" than the shared wow64 method so I'll
try to build on Debian similar to these Fedora builds.

[Bug 58637] SimCity 2000 Windows 95 edition doesn't launch in WoW64 mode

[WineHQ Bugzilla]

http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=58637

--- Comment #12 from Stian Low  ---
(In reply to Stian Low from comment #11)
> I'm less familiar with this "new WoW64" than the shared wow64 method so I'll
> try to build on Debian similar to these Fedora builds.

Based on Debian-Ubuntu "Build from Source" instructions it seems to use Shared
WoW64:
https://gitlab.winehq.org/wine/wine/-/wikis/Debian-Ubuntu#building-from-sour...
(last modified 2025-08-19)

The "new WoW64" mode was added for 9.0:
https://gitlab.winehq.org/wine/wine/-/releases/wine-9.0#wow64 (last modified
2024-01-16)

Debian doesn't provide much detail regarding their WoW64 builds but it seems to
be using Shared WoW64 as well:
https://wiki.debian.org/Wine#Installation_on_Debian_Jessie_and_newer (last
modified 2025-05-17)

The Fedora link you provided was last updated 2025-04-24:
https://gitlab.winehq.org/wine/wine/-/wikis/Fedora

Fedora isn't terribly out of date but Debian is much more recent which I
typically use as my guide for how best run Wine in its latest state.

I'll continue trying the "new Wow64" mode.

Maybe someone more familiar with new vs old Wow64 can make better
recommendations.

[Bug 58637] SimCity 2000 Windows 95 edition doesn't launch in WoW64 mode

[WineHQ Bugzilla]

http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=58637

Zeb Figura  changed:

What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 CC|                            |[e-mail]

--- Comment #13 from Zeb Figura  ---
New wow64 won't run the setup yet (this is bug 54670), but a previously
installed copy works fine for me, with both old wow64 and new wow64. I did not
use anything from sc2kfix.

Can you reproduce this failure with the official upstream Wine packages?

[Bug 58637] SimCity 2000 Windows 95 edition doesn't launch in WoW64 mode

[WineHQ Bugzilla]

http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=58637

--- Comment #14 from [e-mail] ---
(In reply to Zeb Figura from comment #13)
> New wow64 won't run the setup yet (this is bug 54670), but a previously
> installed copy works fine for me, with both old wow64 and new wow64. I did
> not use anything from sc2kfix.
>
> Can you reproduce this failure with the official upstream Wine packages?

I'm using the official wine packages as far as I'm aware. Actually the problem
is only with the official packages from the link in my previous reply (which
use the "new" wow64 mode). If install wine from the fedora repos the game runs
just fine.

[Bug 58637] SimCity 2000 Windows 95 edition doesn't launch in WoW64 mode

[WineHQ Bugzilla]

http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=58637

--- Comment #15 from Stian Low  ---
Created attachment 79207
  --> http://bugs.winehq.org/attachment.cgi?id=79207
Screenshot of "new WoW64" running WIN95/SC2K/WINSCURK.EXE

(In reply to Zeb Figura from comment #13)
> New wow64 won't run the setup yet (this is bug 54670), but a previously
> installed copy works fine for me, with both old wow64 and new wow64. I did
> not use anything from sc2kfix.

Confirming 16-bit related install errors for "new WoW64" (built for commit
93b6570ef4e via: ./configure --enable-archs=i386,x86_64):

00ec:fixme:shell:IShellBrowser_fnOnViewWindowActive stub, 00007FFFFEBCD240
(00007FFFFEBF5560)
00ec:fixme:exec:SHELL_execute flags ignored: 0x0000000c
0164:err:environ:init_peb starting L"C:\windows\syswow64\winevdm.exe" in
experimental wow64 mode
0164:fixme:wow:wow64_NtSetLdtEntries 0107 0488323f 0000f37a 0000 00000000
00000000: stub
0164:err:module:loader_init "krnl386.exe16" failed to initialize, aborting
0164:err:module:loader_init Initializing dlls for
L"C:\windows\syswow64\winevdm.exe" failed, status c0000005

Shared "old WoW64" installs and runs without issues.

So Wine 9.0 release notes regarding lack of 16-bit code support seems still
relevant for the latest versions using "new WoW64":
https://gitlab.winehq.org/wine/wine/-/releases/wine-9.0#wow64

However, attached is a screenshot of WIN95/SC2K/WINSCURK.EXE running which
backs Zeb's claim that it's mostly just an installer issue because the 32-bit
parts not involving 16-bit seems to work for "new WoW64" which is why it's able
to run if already installed.

[Bug 58637] SimCity 2000 Windows 95 edition doesn't launch in WoW64 mode

[WineHQ Bugzilla]

http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=58637

--- Comment #16 from Stian Low  ---
(In reply to Stian Low from comment #15)
> Shared "old WoW64" installs and runs without issues.

Is "new wow64" not considered prime-time ready to be mentioned by official
build instructions? https://gitlab.winehq.org/wine/wine/-/wikis/Building-Wine

Wine 9.0 release notes are the only place I've found it mentioned:
https://gitlab.winehq.org/wine/wine/-/releases/wine-9.0#wow64

Newcomers may be unaware of "new wow64" build option leading to inconsistent
test results and confusion so it may be worth mentioning to help clarify those
potential diffs.

[Bug 58637] SimCity 2000 Windows 95 edition doesn't launch in WoW64 mode

[WineHQ Bugzilla]

http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=58637

--- Comment #17 from Stian Low  ---
Created attachment 79211
  --> http://bugs.winehq.org/attachment.cgi?id=79211
Screenshot of shared WoW64 working for Debian 13

Attached is a screenshot confirming the installer works for Debian 13 apt
packages: wine-10.0 (Debian 10.0~repack-6)

`sudo apt install wine` only installs the 64-bit version causing this message:
it looks like wine32 is missing, you should install it.
multiarch needs to be enabled first.  as root, please
execute "dpkg --add-architecture i386 && apt-get update &&
apt-get install wine32:i386"

After installing i386 support, the the game installer worked but only by using
a fresh WINEPREFIX different than the one created before i386 was installed.

Thus Debian 13 seems to still be using Shared WoW64 method unlike Fedora and
apparently Arch as well:
https://archlinux.org/news/transition-to-the-new-wow64-wine-and-wine-staging...
https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/packaging/packages/wine/-/issues/10

(In reply to Stian Low from comment #16)
> Is "new wow64" not considered prime-time ready to be mentioned by official
> build instructions? https://gitlab.winehq.org/wine/wine/-/wikis/Building-Wine

So regardless whether "new WoW64" is ready for prime-time or not, it's use has
begun by other most popular Linux distros.

[Bug 58637] SimCity 2000 Windows 95 edition doesn't launch in WoW64 mode

[WineHQ Bugzilla]

http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=58637

--- Comment #18 from Stian Low  ---
(In reply to ihatemylife0025 from comment #14)
> If install wine from the fedora repos the game runs just fine.

Which version of Fedora does the game run fine?

Earlier Fedora releases may use Shared WoW64 method.

Fedora seems more ambiguous than Arch about WoW64 support.

Regardless, without "new wow64" fixes for 16-bit installer issues, latest
Fedora packages are likely to produce similar errors with moves away from
"shared wow64": https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Drop_i686_support

[Bug 58637] SimCity 2000 Windows 95 edition doesn't launch in WoW64 mode

[WineHQ Bugzilla]

http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=58637

--- Comment #19 from [e-mail] ---
Let me clear up the confusion:
The packages from the winehq repo
(https://dl.winehq.org/wine-builds/fedora/42/winehq.repo) use the new WoW64
mode

The packages in the official fedora repo
(https://packages.fedoraproject.org/pkgs/wine/wine/) use the shared WoW64 mode

The setup is indeed 16-bit and doesn't run in the new WoW64 mode (nor in
Windows)
$ file WIN95/SETUP.EXE                                                          
WIN95/SETUP.EXE: MS-DOS executable, NE version 5 for MS Windows 3.10 (EXE)
(GUI)

But the game itself is 32-bit
$ file WIN95/SC2K/SIMCITY.EXE 
WIN95/SC2K/SIMCITY.EXE: PE32 executable for MS Windows 4.00 (GUI), Intel i386,
8 sections

so it should run with the new WoW64 mode (but it crashes with a stack overflow
error)

[Bug 58637] SimCity 2000 Windows 95 edition doesn't launch in WoW64 mode

[WineHQ Bugzilla]

http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=58637

--- Comment #20 from Stian Low  ---
Created attachment 79212
  --> http://bugs.winehq.org/attachment.cgi?id=79212
Backtrace after taskmgr kill of game window for Debian 13 wine-10.0 (Debian
10.0~repack-6) apt package presumably using shared wow64.

(In reply to ihatemylife0025 from comment #19)
> Let me clear up the confusion:

Thanks for clarifying.  We seem to be on the same page.

Attached is a backtrace from Debian 13 wine-10.0 (Debian 10.0~repack-6) apt
package presumably using shared wow64.

Despite installing without issues, the game freezes at the initial launch
screen and requires `wine taskmgr` to kill the game window which produces the
attached backtrace.

Thus the bug where I reported successes is for a different version than the
link you provided: https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46963

That other version I used for that bug is heavily depended on DoxBox so it's
only a workaround that doesn't sufficiently test Wine's ability to run the game
without DosBox.

So it seems even "shared wow64" is having issues running this version.

I'll try another version to see if I can at least get "shared wow64" working so
that "new wow64" can be tested after installed.

[Bug 58637] SimCity 2000 Windows 95 edition doesn't launch in WoW64 mode

[WineHQ Bugzilla]

http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=58637

--- Comment #21 from Stian Low  ---
(In reply to Stian Low from comment #20)
> I'll try another version to see if I can at least get "shared wow64" working
> so that "new wow64" can be tested after installed.

This version also requires DOSBox: https://archive.org/details/sc2kcd_en

Console Log:
winevdm: D:\install.exe is a DOS application, you need to install DOSBox.

Via DOSBox, this is the best working version I've found so far.