[Bug 49284] New: Running "$ wine services" gives a list oferrors

[WineHQ Bugzilla]

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49284

Bug ID: 49284
           Summary: Running "$ wine services" gives a list oferrors
           Product: Wine
           Version: 4.0.2
          Hardware: x86
                OS: Linux
            Status: UNCONFIRMED
          Severity: major
          Priority: P2
         Component: -unknown
          Assignee: [e-mail]
          Reporter: [e-mail]
      Distribution: ---

Created attachment 67290
  --> https://bugs.winehq.org/attachment.cgi?id=67290
This is file "Wine Services - output.txt" with the errors that I get.

I recently started using Wine and I wonder if I bumped into a bug that's also
the underlying problem of other bugs.

Here's what happened:

I had installed iTunes and I was hoping to get access to my iPhone via iTunes.
(And I may not be the only one. ;-) )

I know that a few Apple services need to be running on a Windows computer for
that. That's why I decided to check the services that were running under Wine.
I started a terminal box, and I ran:
   $ wine services
Before I knew it I had a decent list of errors on the screen. No problem, I've
seen errors before in a lot of situations and from many programs.

Since I wasn't running any third-party program, I wondered if this could be the
underlying problem of other bugs. As a start I searched the bug list for
"SIO_ADDRESS_LIST_CHANGE". That gave a list of seven other bugs and these users
were all running different third-party programs. These other bugs may or may
not be related. I find that difficult to tell, as I'm not yet familiar enough
with Wine.

Is this something that needs attention?

Many thanks to all the nice people who make and maintain Wine!

PS:
- For "Severity" I choose "major", because I wasn't running any third-party
software. Feel free to change this if you think I'm wrong.
- For readability I added blank lines in attachment:
   "Wine Services - output.txt". 
- From time to time I try to look at things the way most users see them. That's
also why I installed Wine via:
   Start -> Preferences -> Software -> Utilities
This gives me wine version:
   wine-4.0 (Debian 4.0-2) , updated Apr. 22, 2020
- I'll be happy to install the latest development version next to the stable
version that I have now, but I'll still have to figure out how to do that.
- I'm running Linux/Debian 10 with LXDE graphical interface.

[Bug 49284] Running "$ wine services" gives a list of errors

[WineHQ Bugzilla]

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49284

Bart  changed:

What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
            Summary|Running "$ wine services"   |Running "$ wine services"
                   |gives a list oferrors       |gives a list of errors

[Bug 49284] Running "$ wine services" gives a list of errors

[WineHQ Bugzilla]

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49284

Zebediah Figura  changed:

What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 CC|                            |[e-mail]
           Severity|major                       |normal

--- Comment #1 from Zebediah Figura  ---
(In reply to Bart from comment #0)
> I had installed iTunes and I was hoping to get access to my iPhone via
> iTunes. (And I may not be the only one. ;-) )

This is probably a valid bug, but it's generally best to report the bug you
see, not the bug you think is underlying.
> I know that a few Apple services need to be running on a Windows computer
> for that. That's why I decided to check the services that were running under
> Wine. I started a terminal box, and I ran:
>    $ wine services

That's not what services.exe does. On Windows, if you want to list services,
you can run "net start". This works on Wine too. Of course, even then it's not
necessarily the cause of the bug...
> Before I knew it I had a decent list of errors on the screen. No problem,
> I've seen errors before in a lot of situations and from many programs.
>
> Since I wasn't running any third-party program, I wondered if this could be
> the underlying problem of other bugs. As a start I searched the bug list for
> "SIO_ADDRESS_LIST_CHANGE". That gave a list of seven other bugs and these
> users were all running different third-party programs. These other bugs may
> or may not be related. I find that difficult to tell, as I'm not yet
> familiar enough with Wine.
>
> Is this something that needs attention?

As a general rule, FIXME and even ERR messages are not bugs. Frequently
applications are satisfied when we fake success from some API function, and
don't depend on it actually doing what they think it's doing. Moreover, many
errors occur during normal operation that programs can handle. For example,
status 0x2733 is WSAEWOULDBLOCK, indicating that no address list change has
occurred yet. We should probably avoid printing ERR messages in such cases, but
that's often more work than its worth.
> PS:
> - For "Severity" I choose "major", because I wasn't running any third-party
>
> software. Feel free to change this if you think I'm wrong.

Please see https://bugs.winehq.org/page.cgi?id=fields.html for a description
of the "severity" field; it has nothing to do with third-party software.

[Bug 49284] Running "$ wine services" gives a list of errors

[WineHQ Bugzilla]

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49284

Olivier F. R. Dierick  changed:

What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 CC|                            |[e-mail]

--- Comment #2 from Olivier F. R. Dierick  ---
(In reply to Bart from comment #0)
> I recently started using Wine and I wonder if I bumped into a bug that's
> also the underlying problem of other bugs.

Hello,

Please read the bug writing guidelines before reporting bugs:
https://wiki.winehq.org/Bugs

There is no point to report errors in the output of wine commands if there is
no issue with the application.
> I had installed iTunes and I was hoping to get access to my iPhone via
> iTunes. (And I may not be the only one. ;-) )

Did you check the AppDB entry of iTunes [1]? There are many successful reports
and there doesn't seem to be an obvious issue with services, so It might 'just
work'.

Try to run the application and if there is an issue, check the bugs that are
already reported.

[1] https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=1347

If you have intent to contribute to wine, here are some clarifications:

(In reply to Bart from comment #0)
> I know that a few Apple services need to be running on a Windows computer
> for that. That's why I decided to check the services that were running under
> Wine. I started a terminal box, and I ran:
>    $ wine services

--- quote from dlls/programs/services/services.c ---
Services - controls services keeps track of their state
--- end quote
This is used internally. Probably not the command that you were looking for.

I believe the nearest you can get is to set WINEDEBUG=+service when running
iTunes.
> Is this something that needs attention?

No, unless there is an issue with the application.
> PS:
> - For "Severity" I choose "major", because I wasn't running any third-party
>
> software. Feel free to change this if you think I'm wrong.

That criteria is irrelevant for severity level.
Using third-party software would make the bug _status_ INVALID.

The severity levels are (somewhat) well-defined:

--- quote from https://wiki.winehq.org/Bugs#severity ---
Normal for an application crash or other issue
Major for major loss of functionality for a wide range of applications
--- end quote ---

There is no indication of an issue in your report, so I guess that 'normal'
will do.
> - For readability I added blank lines in attachment:
>  "Wine Services - output.txt".

That's highly unnecessary and somewhat undesirable. Valid reasons to mangle
files before attaching them are limited to: hiding private information and/or
removing duplicate/unrelated content to make the file smaller.

I find the file harder to read because the blank lines don't group the lines
into meaningful paragraphs and that's what I would expect the blank lines to
do.
> - From time to time I try to look at things the way most users see them.
>
> That's also why I installed Wine via:
>    Start -> Preferences -> Software -> Utilities
> This gives me wine version:
>    wine-4.0 (Debian 4.0-2) , updated Apr. 22, 2020

User behavior is irrelevant to reporting bugs.
Bugs should be reported with a recent wine development/staging version, as
noted in the bug writing guidelines.

Wine 4.0 is months old, and stable doesn't even have all the fixes and features
of the development/staging branch from the same time.

If a user reports an issue with that version, the first answer will be to
upgrade to a recent version and retest.
> - I'll be happy to install the latest development version next to the stable
>
> version that I have now, but I'll still have to figure out how to do that.

There is no need to keep or use the old packages. Once you use recent
wine-devel/wine-staging packages (from your distro or WineHQ.org), stick to
them (and keep them up-to-date).

Regards.

[Bug 49284] Running "$ wine services" gives a list of errors

[WineHQ Bugzilla]

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49284

Bart  changed:

What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
         Resolution|---                         |ABANDONED
             Status|UNCONFIRMED                 |RESOLVED

--- Comment #3 from Bart  ---
I installed the developer version and now I have different results. (Not better
or worse, mainly different.) But that also calls for new reports and I changed
the status of this report to "resolved / abandoned".

Nevertheless I still wanted to address the questions and remarks that were
raised:

(In reply to Zebediah Figura from comment #1)
> We should probably avoid printing ERR messages in such cases,
> but that's often more work than its worth.

At my side, I would appreciate it a lot if messages like ERR and FIXME were
avoided. ERR and FIXME messages give me the feeling that something didn't go
well. Also, if these messages are avoided, the remaining messages should
probably be included with a bug report. I no longer have to scratch behind my
ear and wonder which messages should be included and which not.

(In reply to Olivier F. R. Dierick from comment #2)
> There is no point to report errors in the output of wine 
> commands if there is no issue with the application.

The issue that I had was that iTunes didn't show my iPhone. I also had a list
of error messages on the screen when opening a terminal box and when giving the
command:
   $ wine iTunes.exe
I assumed that these messages, and the iPhone not showing up, were related to
each other. I also had these messages when giving the command:
   $ wine services
I have seen situations where developers wanted to have these error messages and
this information also, because sometimes they lead to the cause of an issue.
That's why I included them.

(In reply to Olivier F. R. Dierick from comment #2)
> Did you check the AppDB entry of iTunes [1]? There are many successful
> reports and there doesn't seem to be an obvious issue with services, so It
> might 'just work'.

I did and I found many reports that iTunes was working, but none that the
iPhone was showing up or not in iTunes:
   https://bugs.winehq.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=iTunes%20iPhone

Because I hoped that someone else had found a solution, I also did an online
search for "Linux Wine iTunes iPhone" and here's what I found:

"I was never able to make it talk with my iPhone":
https://medium.com/@miguel.nunes.72/how-to-install-itunes-on-linux-using-win...

"I solved my problems with iphone by dumping it in favour of an android phone.
I could not get it to work with linux":
https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?p=1811609

"Then, there is the issue of iTunes not detecting my iPhone":
https://www.computerworld.com/article/2509003/30-days-with-ubuntu-linux--day...

"Has anyone managed to get it working & syncing?":
https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/dof3rm/has_anyone_successfully_inst...

(In reply to Olivier F. R. Dierick from comment #2)
> There is no need to keep or use the old packages. Once you use recent
> wine-devel/wine-staging packages (from your distro or WineHQ.org), stick 
> to them (and keep them up-to-date).

I also did some bug reporting for LibreOffice and I even tried to confirm bugs
from others. I had installed LibreOffice 6.1 , 6.3 , 6.4 and 7.0. Sometimes I
was able to report when a certain bug appeared (i.e. in which version). This
information sometimes leads to the specific feature that introduced the bug.
Sure, it's more work for me to install and try different versions, but it can
mean less work for developers who want to fix a bug.

(In reply to Olivier F. R. Dierick from comment #2)
> If you have intent to contribute to wine, here are some clarifications:

I do. Thank you for the clarifications!

Thank you both for the links that you provided!

[Bug 49284] Running "$ wine services" gives a list of errors

[WineHQ Bugzilla]

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49284

--- Comment #4 from Zebediah Figura  ---
(In reply to Bart from comment #3)
> (In reply to Zebediah Figura from comment #1)
> > We should probably avoid printing ERR messages in such cases,
> > but that's often more work than its worth.
>
> At my side, I would appreciate it a lot if messages like ERR and FIXME were
> avoided. ERR and FIXME messages give me the feeling that something didn't go
> well. Also, if these messages are avoided, the remaining messages should
> probably be included with a bug report. I no longer have to scratch behind
> my ear and wonder which messages should be included and which not.

With the exception of winediag messages, you should probably never pay
attention to terminal output unless you're interested in debugging, and even
then it's wise to ask a developer before assuming a message is relevant,
because it usually isn't. Simply put, terminal output is pretty much entirely
for debugging and shouldn't be paid any attention otherwise.

Of course it's accurate that ERR/FIXME implies something might be broken, but
usually things break in a way that doesn't affect a given application. That
doesn't mean it's not still broken...

[Bug 49284] Running "$ wine services" gives a list of errors

[WineHQ Bugzilla]

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49284

--- Comment #5 from Bart  ---
Zebediah, thank you for the extra information!

(In reply to Bart from comment #3)
> I did and I found many reports that iTunes was working, but none that the
> iPhone was showing up or not in iTunes:
>    https://bugs.winehq.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=iTunes%20iPhone

Correction, this afternoon I stumbled into:

WineHQ Bugzilla – Bug 9649 – iTunes 7 doesn't recognize iPod :
   https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9649

That bug report is about iTunes not recognizing an iPod, not an iPhone. The
cause however, could be the same.

Funny, sometimes I search and don't find, other times I don't search and then I
find. :-D

[Bug 49284] Running "$ wine services" gives a list of errors

[WineHQ Bugzilla]

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49284

--- Comment #6 from Austin English  ---
Closing.

[Bug 49284] Running "$ wine services" gives a list of errors

[WineHQ Bugzilla]

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49284

Austin English  changed:

What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
             Status|RESOLVED                    |CLOSED

--- Comment #7 from Austin English  ---
Closing.