Hi,
I was going to wait a while (until it had a bit more content) before announcing this here, but as it seems people are setting up Wikis etc already here is my 2 cents:
http://navi.cx/svn/misc/trunk/winekb/index.xml
** THIS IS NOT A WIKI **
Instead, it's a mini website that uses a simple dialect of XML suitable for embedding code and random text into. It's designed to be:
- Easy to improve - Visually appealing - Controlled
What do I mean by these things?
Firstly, easy to improve: if you want to add some content to a page, save or wget the file to disk, edit it in your favourite text editor, and then send me the diff (or the full file and I'll diff it for you). You don't need any web design skill, as you can see if you do a "View Source" in the page.
Secondly, visually appealing: I dislike the way Wikis look most of the time. XSL:T is a nice language for doing tree transformations so I used it. The page code looks like this:
<kbpage title="Index">
<section title="Users"> * Installing <l>NativeMSI</l> and <l>NativeDCOM</l> * The <l>ConfigFile</l>
* <a href="http://bylands.dur.ac.uk/~mh/wine-faq.html">#winehq channel faq</a> - read this when you have an issue </section>
<section title="Developers"> * <l>AddingStuff</l> to this site * <l>InterestingPatches</l> * <l>WinelibAsBinaries</l> </section>
</kbpage>
See? It's easy. Yet the resulting pages looks quite nice IMHO and are uniform in style. There's a new page template here:
http://navi.cx/svn/misc/trunk/winekb/template.xml
Thirdly, controlled: one of the objections Newman always had to a Wiki was that it'd fill up with crap or become another appdb, and then he'd have to maintain it. You can contribute to the knowledge base by sending patches to me or to wine-devel (if you think others would find the text useful), same as any other project. I won't be adding anything there that duplicates the appdb except maybe for extremely popular programs and libraries like MSI and DCOM.
You can hack on it in other ways: the code for the site is managed using Subversion/SVK, so you can check out a copy of it like so:
$ svn co http://navi.cx/svn/misc/trunk/winekb
If you want to do a lot of work on it, use SVK which will let you branch changes and commit locally so you can keep your patches separated nicely.
Right now there isn't much content. There's some stuff for users, like how to set up a basic config file, how to install native DCOM etc, and there is stuff for developers like a list of interesting-yet-bounced patches and some notes on the "Winelib programs as binaries" work me and Vincent did.
It's designed for content that doesn't really fit the main WineHQ website. If I think something makes more sense in the developer guide I'll ask you to send the content there.
In other words, the KB is designed to be half-way between the structured and professional WineHQ website and a Wiki.
Hope that helps!
thanks -mike
On Sun, Jan 23, 2005 at 01:03:23PM +0000, Mike Hearn wrote:
This is nice, but I'm not sure I agree with your rationale for not using a real Wiki.
- Easy to improve
It is easy, but not as easy a regular Wiki. By a long shot. Moreover a Wiki like MoinMoin is so common on the web that people know it, and they don't have to lear yet another markup format. And you can not compare the click-to-edit--edit--click-to-save ease of using a Wiki with the procedure to change this one (mentioning svk, diff, mail, etc, and you've lost 95% of people, right there).
- Visually appealing
This is in the eye of the beholder. I am sorry, but MoinMoin doesn't look at all that bad that it's a reason to reinvent the wheel. Besides, a real Wiki has nice features (email notifications, history, etc) that we are all missing with a hand-rolled one.
- Controlled
This has been a non-argument from the beginning. Jer has been put off by the silly FAQ-O-Matic, but that wasn't really a Wiki. There are so many Wikis on the web that work just fine and are useful (see the Arch Wiki, and so many others) that this has no support whatsoever. In fact, the lack of control (and the associated ease of editting) are the very reason to use Wikis, and we are giving these up for some irrational fears.
Let's add a Wiki to the main site (MoinMoin in particular), and see what happens. If it doesn't work out, we'll take it down. I'm sure people will love it.
On Sun, 2005-01-23 at 13:45 -0500, Dimitrie O. Paun wrote:
On Sun, Jan 23, 2005 at 01:03:23PM +0000, Mike Hearn wrote:
This is nice, but I'm not sure I agree with your rationale for not using a real Wiki.
It's not my rationale unfortunately. This is something I put together quickly because setting up a wiki and making sure it stays clean of spam etc isn't a 10 minute job. I do think a wiki would be better, but I'm not volunteering to run one either.
Let's add a Wiki to the main site (MoinMoin in particular), and see what happens. If it doesn't work out, we'll take it down. I'm sure people will love it.
If you can convince Newman then I'll owe you beer at WineConf (you're coming, right?). For now this is a middle ground that should hopefully not suck up too much time.
thanks -mike
On Sun, Jan 23, 2005 at 07:44:27PM +0000, Mike Hearn wrote:
If you can convince Newman then I'll owe you beer at WineConf (you're coming, right?).
Yes, I'm coming. And I hope to get that beer :)