Re: OT: General behaviour of the community (from 'Why winetools is utterly useless, once and for all')

[Hiji]

> How do you propose we prevent people from emailing people that post to
> wine-devel?  How do we choose who gets to email people directly and
> who doesn't?  How do we filter the contents of their email?

I want to chime in and say that I'm with Tom and the ole Doc here.  I don't think there's any way to filter somebody's contents, but I think it's important for the community to speak up when somebody is out of line.

I know I was the first to respond to Sergin's email by asking that he be more constructive in his feedback, but past that, none of the regulars on this thread said much.  Now, his thread has spawned into something that is soooo far out there that it almost has no relevancy to this list.  I want to note that I don't see how Sergin's comments and behavior could have been interpreted as anything but inappropriate; however, with the majority of people not saying anything, I can only imagine that Sergin felt that what he did was perfectly okay and acceptable on this list.

I'm trying to say two things here:
1) If somebody says/ does something that is not okay, say something to that person.  Of course, be constructive about it.  For example, when I first joined this list, people got upset that I was top-posting - I learned that it was not ok in this community because people said someting.  So, I try to bottom post (when I remember.)
2) I've always said Wine is an awesome thing - probably the best thing to come out of the Linux community since ... well, Linux and its desktops.  Now, more than ever, Wine need as many developers as possible to keep it improve b/c as Linux adoption continues people will look to Wine and CrossOver for application cross-compatibility.  And, I'm not talking about the developer who pops in with a patch every 6 months (I see that person as a patch submitter), but instead, I'm talking about a developer who dedicated him/herself to the Wine project.  And with that, the team can't afford to lose that good talent b/c the "newbie talent" was mistreated in this community.

Those are my 2 cents that I think will go a long way.

Thanks,
Hiji

OT: General behaviour of the community (from 'Why winetools is utterly useless, once and for all')

[Mike McCormack]

Hiji wrote:
> I know I was the first to respond to Sergin's email by asking that he be more constructive in his feedback, but past that, none of the regulars on this thread said much.  Now, his thread has spawned into something that is soooo far out there that it almost has no relevancy to this list.  I want to note that I don't see how Sergin's comments and behavior could have been interpreted as anything but inappropriate; however, with the majority of people not saying anything, I can only imagine that Sergin felt that what he did was perfectly okay and acceptable on this list.

It's more about not feeding the trolls that agreeing with him.

In my mind, Jon is a much more respectable member of the Wine community 
than "segin".  It would be disappointing to see a real contributor 
scared off by a troll.

Personally, I think Winetools has it's place, but it would be more 
helpful to the Wine community if it was a bit better supported, and used 
builtin dlls in preference to natives ones whenever possible.

Mike

OT: General behaviour of the community (from 'Why winetools is utterly useless, once and for all')

[Chris Morgan]

On Wednesday 29 March 2006 7:31 pm, Hiji wrote:
> > How do you propose we prevent people from emailing people that post to
> > wine-devel?  How do we choose who gets to email people directly and
> > who doesn't?  How do we filter the contents of their email?
>
> I want to chime in and say that I'm with Tom and the ole Doc here.  I don't
> think there's any way to filter somebody's contents, but I think it's
> important for the community to speak up when somebody is out of line.

Perhaps you didn't actually read the emails that were sent.  This might 
explain the discrepancy between your comment about "thinking its important 
for the community to speak up when somebody is out of line" and this email 
from Tom, the one I was replying to:
> From:
> "Tom Spear" 
>   To:
> "Wine Developers List" 
>   Date:
> Today 5:12:33 pm
>    
> Totally agreed.  Segin
> needs to be not just kick/banned from the list, he needs to be K-Lined, if
> not G-Lined from all things wine!  With respect to his comments though, on
> behalf of everyone involved with the project, and with the community as a
> whole, I sincerely apologize.

Sounds to me like this is advocating censorship.
> I know I was the first to respond to Sergin's email by asking that he be
> more constructive in his feedback, but past that, none of the regulars on
> this thread said much.  Now, his thread has spawned into something that is
> soooo far out there that it almost has no relevancy to this list.  I want
> to note that I don't see how Sergin's comments and behavior could have been
> interpreted as anything but inappropriate; however, with the majority of
> people not saying anything, I can only imagine that Sergin felt that what
> he did was perfectly okay and acceptable on this list.

What he said on the list seemed pretty reasonable to me.  Note that in the 
headers forwarded by Dr J A Gow the email from Segin appears to be directly 
from him and not to the list at all.  It isn't our place to even care what 
Segin emails to people, as long as he isn't abusing the mailing list to do 
so.

Chris

OT: General behaviour of the community (from 'Why winetools is utterly useless, once and for all')

[Hiji]

On Wednesday 29 March 2006 7:31 pm, Hiji wrote:
> > How do you propose we prevent people from emailing people that post to
> > wine-devel?  How do we choose who gets to email people directly and
> > who doesn't?  How do we filter the contents of their email?
>
> I want to chime in and say that I'm with Tom and the ole Doc here.  I don't
> think there's any way to filter somebody's contents, but I think it's
> important for the community to speak up when somebody is out of line.

Chris Morgan wrote:
> Perhaps you didn't actually read the emails that were sent.  This might 
> explain the discrepancy between your comment about "thinking its important 
> for the community to speak up when somebody is out of line" and this email 
> from Tom, the one I was replying to:

I read all the emails, and I know exactly what I am referring to; so, there is no discrepancy. ;)  I had in mind Segin's initial email (which was sent to the entire list):
--- Segin  wrote:
> There is one reason, inarguable (if you reply to
> this you have a IQ of 
> 0) as to why WineTools is useless: Most of the
> WineTools 'magic' is in 
> it's ~/.wine/config file, which Wine no longer
> uses/acknoleges, thefore, 
> WineTools is utterly useless and has no point in
> existing AT ALL, PERIOD.

To which I responded:
> Dude, you need a bit more constructive in your
> comments, or you'll be getting a lot of resentment on
> this list REAL fast.

Per your comment "What he said on the list seemed pretty reasonable to me.", if you don't see anything wrong with what Segin said, then so be it.  Others, meanwhile, have recognized his misplaced behavior.

Cheers,
 Hiji