2009/3/7 Rosanne DiMesio dimesio@earthlink.net:
I can think of one possible benefit. There are a lot of apps without maintainers, and there might be users of those apps who would be willing take a few minutes to post bits of useful information in a wiki, but don't want the responsibility of being a maintainer. Sure, they could just post info in a comment, but user comments are buried at the bottom of the page and not in a useful order for finding information quickly. The same goes for comments in test reports--I've found information on needed tweaks buried several reports down from the most recent.
Yep. That's why a wiki is nice. If you open it up to everyone to contribute, you'll get bad stuff but you'll get good stuff you just wouldn't get otherwise. It's a great format to capture that.
Being an app maintainer is too much like bureaucracy. It makes drive-by reports way too hard. Keep it simple, you'll get more information and therefore more good information.
(Disclaimer: I'm a Wikipedia admin and press volunteer, so I think of wikis as good default solutions for lots of things ;-)
What do users want from the AppDB? They want to know how well the app works with Wine, and what tweaks are needed to get it working.
I'd be tempted to just go and start a wiki on the subject myself, but it'd be duplicated effort with the present AppDB. So I'd rather try to make a case for it.
The present AppDB is lacking in many ways that I think a wiki would help with.
I'm cc'ing this to wine-users - since I'd need to make a case for the wiki to developers, but it's actually *for* the users. Users: what's right and wrong with the AppDB? How useful is it for you? What would make it better?
- d.
On Sat, 7 Mar 2009 20:10:13 +0000 David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
Yep. That's why a wiki is nice. If you open it up to everyone to contribute, you'll get bad stuff but you'll get good stuff you just wouldn't get otherwise. It's a great format to capture that.
We would use the same system for edit rights that we use now. Make appDB account then ask to be a maintainer then you can edit the wiki page for that app. The wiki is only for application notes. Anyone can read the wiki history.
Pro: The only thing the wiki will do thats new is we will have a history on the maintainers notes.
Con: It would be very hard to set up.
I'm cc'ing this to wine-users - since I'd need to make a case for the wiki to developers, but it's actually *for* the users. Users: what's right and wrong with the AppDB? How useful is it for you? What would make it better?
Do not cross post or you may up set people with power.
2009/3/8 IneedAname wineappdb@googlemail.com:
On Sat, 7 Mar 2009 20:10:13 +0000 David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
Yep. That's why a wiki is nice. If you open it up to everyone to contribute, you'll get bad stuff but you'll get good stuff you just wouldn't get otherwise. It's a great format to capture that.
We would use the same system for edit rights that we use now. Make appDB account then ask to be a maintainer then you can edit the wiki page for that app.
Sorry, that sounds like too much effort for too little benefit to me.
The wiki is only for application notes. Anyone can read the wiki history.
Notes, Warnings and HOWTOs?
Pro: The only thing the wiki will do thats new is we will have a history on the maintainers notes.
Con: Wiki is big, you're getting it to do a tiny task. It doesn't need to be a wiki, as I mentioned before.
Con: It is possible to get the style of history you are talking about without resorting to a wiki, and it would be easier to implement without a wiki.
Con: It would be very hard to set up.
Con: What you said :)
2009/3/7 IneedAname wineappdb@googlemail.com:
On Sat, 7 Mar 2009 20:10:13 +0000 David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
Yep. That's why a wiki is nice. If you open it up to everyone to contribute, you'll get bad stuff but you'll get good stuff you just wouldn't get otherwise. It's a great format to capture that.
We would use the same system for edit rights that we use now. Make appDB account then ask to be a maintainer then you can edit the wiki page for that app. The wiki is only for application notes. Anyone can read the wiki history. Con: It would be very hard to set up.
Con: Becoming a maintainer is a pain in the backside. You won't get useful drive-by contributions, and a lot of this stuff is drive-by.
Do not cross post or you may up set people with power.
So when we're talking about a service to users, you're saying "God forbid we ask the users"?
- d.
2009/3/8 David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com:
2009/3/7 Rosanne DiMesio dimesio@earthlink.net:
I can think of one possible benefit. There are a lot of apps without maintainers, and there might be users of those apps who would be willing take a few minutes to post bits of useful information in a wiki, but don't want the responsibility of being a maintainer. Sure, they could just post info in a comment, but user comments are buried at the bottom of the page and not in a useful order for finding information quickly. The same goes for comments in test reports--I've found information on needed tweaks buried several reports down from the most recent.
Yep. That's why a wiki is nice. If you open it up to everyone to contribute, you'll get bad stuff but you'll get good stuff you just wouldn't get otherwise. It's a great format to capture that.
Being an app maintainer is too much like bureaucracy. It makes drive-by reports way too hard. Keep it simple, you'll get more information and therefore more good information.
(Disclaimer: I'm a Wikipedia admin and press volunteer, so I think of wikis as good default solutions for lots of things ;-)
What do users want from the AppDB? They want to know how well the app works with Wine, and what tweaks are needed to get it working.
I'd be tempted to just go and start a wiki on the subject myself, but it'd be duplicated effort with the present AppDB. So I'd rather try to make a case for it.
The present AppDB is lacking in many ways that I think a wiki would help with.
Lacking, yes. Wiki? I really don't think that's a viable solution. We already have one wiki, wiki.winehq.org. Setting up an AppDB wiki in addition would likely get very messy. AppDB is more like a tightly controlled forum. The problem is that, as you say, it's not easy to get tweaks listed on app pages, and users could very well be intimidated by the (super)maintainer processes.
The current view is that HOWTOs in particular are best written by app maintainers - they're the ones who should know all the details and caveats. The issue here is that there aren't enough people volunteering for (super)maintainer rights on the right applications (how many maintainers do we really need for Counterstrike:Source?), or they are not active enough to write and maintain HOWTOs, Warnings and Notes.
Maybe we could make it easier for casual users to write Notes? HOWTOs should probably still be reserved for (super)maintainers, or at least require (super)maintainer approval before being accepted. "Why?" I hear you ask. Because I'm worried that if we open it up completely we'll get people providing instructions that destroy systems or install malware. Wikis are great for encyclopaedic references, but not so great for instructions and guides.
I'm cc'ing this to wine-users - since I'd need to make a case for the wiki to developers, but it's actually *for* the users. Users: what's right and wrong with the AppDB? How useful is it for you? What would make it better?
I'm not subscribed to wine-users, so I won't see comments there.