Anti aliased fonts in wine - minimum font size

[Avery Pennarun]

Hi all,

I'm using Microsoft Office 2002 under wine.  According to the instructions here:

http://www.wine-reviews.net/wine-reviews/tips-n-tricks/how-to-enable-font-an...

...I've enabled font anti-aliasing, and it does work for fonts above a
particular point size.  However, it seems to turn itself off below a
certain size.  How can I configure the minimum font size at which to
allow anti-aliasing?

I've looked through the wine source and didn't see any obvious
references to font size in the anti-aliasing-related code.

Thanks,

Avery

[Austin English]

On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 4:02 PM, Avery Pennarun  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm using Microsoft Office 2002 under wine.  According to the instructions here:
>
> http://www.wine-reviews.net/wine-reviews/tips-n-tricks/how-to-enable-font-an...
>
> ...I've enabled font anti-aliasing, and it does work for fonts above a
> particular point size.  However, it seems to turn itself off below a
> certain size.  How can I configure the minimum font size at which to
> allow anti-aliasing?

Try changing the dpi in winecfg.

[Avery Pennarun]

On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 5:37 PM, Austin English  wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 4:02 PM, Avery Pennarun  wrote:
> > I'm using Microsoft Office 2002 under wine.  According to the instructions here:
> >
> > http://www.wine-reviews.net/wine-reviews/tips-n-tricks/how-to-enable-font-an...
> >
> > ...I've enabled font anti-aliasing, and it does work for fonts above a
> > particular point size.  However, it seems to turn itself off below a
> > certain size.  How can I configure the minimum font size at which to
> > allow anti-aliasing?
>
> Try changing the dpi in winecfg.

Heh.  Well, that seems to work, in that 10pt fonts are now
anti-aliased, except it happens because my 10pt fonts are much bigger
than before :)  That's not quite what I was looking for.

It seems like the anti-alias feature is disabled based on the *pixel*
size of the font?

Avery

[Aric Stewart]

Avery Pennarun wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 5:37 PM, Austin English  wrote:
> > On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 4:02 PM, Avery Pennarun  wrote:
> > > I'm using Microsoft Office 2002 under wine.  According to the instructions here:
> > >
> > > http://www.wine-reviews.net/wine-reviews/tips-n-tricks/how-to-enable-font-an...
> > >
> > > ...I've enabled font anti-aliasing, and it does work for fonts above a
> > > particular point size.  However, it seems to turn itself off below a
> > > certain size.  How can I configure the minimum font size at which to
> > > allow anti-aliasing?
> >
> > Try changing the dpi in winecfg.
>
> Heh.  Well, that seems to work, in that 10pt fonts are now
> anti-aliased, except it happens because my 10pt fonts are much bigger
> than before :)  That's not quite what I was looking for.
>
> It seems like the anti-alias feature is disabled based on the *pixel*
> size of the font?
>
> Avery

I am not sure if this is the case here,  but often the fonts themselves 
actually set a minimum size for anti-aliasing.  The font designer 
decides at what point the anti-aliasing would degrade the usability of 
the glyphs and turns it off.  I know this is the case with many Asian 
fonts.

Have you tried with other fonts? Maybe you need to find a small 
character font designed for point sizes 10 and below.

-aric

[Avery Pennarun]

On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 7:33 PM, Aric Stewart  wrote:
> Avery Pennarun wrote:
> > On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 5:37 PM, Austin English 
> > wrote:
> > > On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 4:02 PM, Avery Pennarun 
> > > wrote:
> > > > I'm using Microsoft Office 2002 under wine.  According to the
> > > > instructions here:
> > > >
> > > > http://www.wine-reviews.net/wine-reviews/tips-n-tricks/how-to-enable-font-an...
> > > >
> > > > ...I've enabled font anti-aliasing, and it does work for fonts above a
> > > > particular point size.  However, it seems to turn itself off below a
> > > > certain size.  How can I configure the minimum font size at which to
> > > > allow anti-aliasing?
> > >
> > > Try changing the dpi in winecfg.
> >
> > Heh.  Well, that seems to work, in that 10pt fonts are now
> > anti-aliased, except it happens because my 10pt fonts are much bigger
> > than before :)  That's not quite what I was looking for.
> >
> > It seems like the anti-alias feature is disabled based on the *pixel*
> > size of the font?
>
> I am not sure if this is the case here,  but often the fonts themselves
> actually set a minimum size for anti-aliasing.  The font designer decides at
> what point the anti-aliasing would degrade the usability of the glyphs and
> turns it off.  I know this is the case with many Asian fonts.
>
> Have you tried with other fonts? Maybe you need to find a small character
> font designed for point sizes 10 and below.

Hmm... good point.  So I just tried Times New Roman (Italic) in Excel 2002.

Results in Windows XP:

- Smoothing:Standard - no anti-aliasing up to 15pt, anti-aliasing
starting at 16pt
- Smoothing:Cleartype - always anti-aliased (and looks great even on my CRT)

Results in Wine (regardless of FontSmoothing=1/2 or FontSmoothingType=1/2):

- no anti-aliasing up to 15pt; anti-aliasing starting at 16pt

So is the problem just that cleartype isn't kicking in at all sizes,
just because the font requests that anti-aliasing doesn't kick in?
What part of the system is responsible for making this decision?
Maybe it's not wine, which is why it's so hard to find it in the
source code :)

Thanks,

Avery

[Mike Kaplinskiy]

I think some time ago this was explained as a NOTABUG in freetype,
which actually obeys the font's preferences and if the font supplies
special images for smaller font sizes, it uses them WITHOUT aliasing
them, which seems logical. Windows seems to lazily alias everything.

If you can find a way to disable embedded bitmaps it might help. The
related bug is at
https://savannah.nongnu.org/bugs/?func=detailitem&item_id=21205

Mike.

On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 8:41 PM, Avery Pennarun  wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 7:33 PM, Aric Stewart  wrote:
> > Avery Pennarun wrote:
> > > On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 5:37 PM, Austin English 
> > > wrote:
> > > > On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 4:02 PM, Avery Pennarun 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > I'm using Microsoft Office 2002 under wine.  According to the
> > > > > instructions here:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.wine-reviews.net/wine-reviews/tips-n-tricks/how-to-enable-font-an...
> > > > >
> > > > > ...I've enabled font anti-aliasing, and it does work for fonts above a
> > > > > particular point size.  However, it seems to turn itself off below a
> > > > > certain size.  How can I configure the minimum font size at which to
> > > > > allow anti-aliasing?
> > > >
> > > > Try changing the dpi in winecfg.
> > >
> > > Heh.  Well, that seems to work, in that 10pt fonts are now
> > > anti-aliased, except it happens because my 10pt fonts are much bigger
> > > than before :)  That's not quite what I was looking for.
> > >
> > > It seems like the anti-alias feature is disabled based on the *pixel*
> > > size of the font?
> >
> > I am not sure if this is the case here,  but often the fonts themselves
> > actually set a minimum size for anti-aliasing.  The font designer decides at
> > what point the anti-aliasing would degrade the usability of the glyphs and
> > turns it off.  I know this is the case with many Asian fonts.
> >
> > Have you tried with other fonts? Maybe you need to find a small character
> > font designed for point sizes 10 and below.
>
> Hmm... good point.  So I just tried Times New Roman (Italic) in Excel 2002.
>
> Results in Windows XP:
> - Smoothing:Standard - no anti-aliasing up to 15pt, anti-aliasing
>
> starting at 16pt
> - Smoothing:Cleartype - always anti-aliased (and looks great even on my CRT)
>
> Results in Wine (regardless of FontSmoothing=1/2 or FontSmoothingType=1/2):
> - no anti-aliasing up to 15pt; anti-aliasing starting at 16pt
>
> So is the problem just that cleartype isn't kicking in at all sizes,
> just because the font requests that anti-aliasing doesn't kick in?
> What part of the system is responsible for making this decision?
> Maybe it's not wine, which is why it's so hard to find it in the
> source code :)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Avery

[Avery Pennarun]

On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 10:31 PM, Mike Kaplinskiy
 wrote:
> I think some time ago this was explained as a NOTABUG in freetype,
> which actually obeys the font's preferences and if the font supplies
> special images for smaller font sizes, it uses them WITHOUT aliasing
> them, which seems logical. Windows seems to lazily alias everything.
>
> If you can find a way to disable embedded bitmaps it might help. The
> related bug is at
> https://savannah.nongnu.org/bugs/?func=detailitem&item_id=21205

Hmm, thanks for the link.  If I understand correctly, that only seems
to be important for the newer "cleartype" fonts.  I'm just using plain
Times New Roman.

Updated information: if I load up gedit (the gnome text editor) and
tell it to use Times New Roman 12, it *is* anti-aliased (depending on
my settings in gnome-control-center).  However, the exact same font
isn't anti-aliased in wine.

Does wine use fontconfig to pick up this stuff?

Avery

[Aric Stewart]

Avery Pennarun wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 10:31 PM, Mike Kaplinskiy
>  wrote:
> > I think some time ago this was explained as a NOTABUG in freetype,
> > which actually obeys the font's preferences and if the font supplies
> > special images for smaller font sizes, it uses them WITHOUT aliasing
> > them, which seems logical. Windows seems to lazily alias everything.
> >
> > If you can find a way to disable embedded bitmaps it might help. The
> > related bug is at
> > https://savannah.nongnu.org/bugs/?func=detailitem&item_id=21205
>
> Hmm, thanks for the link.  If I understand correctly, that only seems
> to be important for the newer "cleartype" fonts.  I'm just using plain
> Times New Roman.
>
> Updated information: if I load up gedit (the gnome text editor) and
> tell it to use Times New Roman 12, it *is* anti-aliased (depending on
> my settings in gnome-control-center).  However, the exact same font
> isn't anti-aliased in wine.
>
> Does wine use fontconfig to pick up this stuff?
>
> Avery

All our glyphs come from freetype directly. So it is the freetype 
library that makes that decision.

A quick search on freetype and cleartype shows this 
http://david.freetype.org/cleartype-patents.html

Looks like it is a big patent mess.

But in short I do not think this is a wine issue but more a freetype 
issue.  It looks like there are special parameters that could be passed 
to FT_Open_Face to force hinting (looking at the freetype release 
notes).  But that would require a bit more investigation if you are 
interested. And then you would have to prove when windows does this.

thanks!
-aric