D3D via Gallium

[Zachary Goldberg]

Hello,

I found the following article/commit very interesting this morning.
Has anybody else been looking at this and put thought into whether it
will work with Wine?

http://cgit.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/commit/?id=92617aeac109481258f0c3863d0...

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=mesa_gallium3d_d3d11&...

-Zach

[Chris Robinson]

On Tuesday, September 21, 2010 7:06:30 am Zachary Goldberg wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I found the following article/commit very interesting this morning.
> Has anybody else been looking at this and put thought into whether it
> will work with Wine?

IIRC, it's been discussed before, and it simply wouldn't work. D3D has too 
many ties to the Windows API that a non-Windows based implementation wouldn't 
be appropriate for Wine (try getting an HDC from a D3D resource, or passing an 
HWND to D3D). Gallium would have to substitute these for X11 resources, or 
custom resources that tie into X, so wouldn't reflect the Wine's internal 
state.

Additionally, not all drivers will support Gallium (eg. nVidia binaries), so a 
D3D10->GL path will still be needed.

[Zachary Goldberg]

On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 10:32 AM, Chris Robinson  wrote:
> IIRC, it's been discussed before, and it simply wouldn't work. D3D has too
> many ties to the Windows API that a non-Windows based implementation wouldn't
> be appropriate for Wine (try getting an HDC from a D3D resource, or passing an
> HWND to D3D). Gallium would have to substitute these for X11 resources, or
> custom resources that tie into X, so wouldn't reflect the Wine's internal
> state.

Hm.  The author of the commit for some reason believes that this is
possible.  Is he simply misguided?
> Additionally, not all drivers will support Gallium (eg. nVidia binaries), so a
> D3D10->GL path will still be needed.

Well, one can pray that eventually nvidia will add gallium 3d support :)

-Z

[Edward Savage]

On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 5:55 AM, Zachary Goldberg  wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 10:32 AM, Chris Robinson  wrote:
>
> Hm.  The author of the commit for some reason believes that this is
> possible.  Is he simply misguided?
>
> Well, one can pray that eventually nvidia will add gallium 3d support :)

Indeed.

I've finally got time to push out another WWN, already half done, and
this seems like some thing that definitely needs to be addressed, due
to Phoronix's claims:

"... it's already working and can be hooked into Wine!"

If any one wishes to make any comments I'll include those as well as
contacting Luca Barbieri (?) or who ever is relevant to this over at
Gallium3D.

[Jaime Rave]

El 21/09/10 18:36, Edward Savage escribió:
> On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 5:55 AM, Zachary Goldberg  wrote:
> > On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 10:32 AM, Chris Robinson  wrote:
> >
> > Hm.  The author of the commit for some reason believes that this is
> > possible.  Is he simply misguided?
> >
> > Well, one can pray that eventually nvidia will add gallium 3d support :)
>
> Indeed.
>
> I've finally got time to push out another WWN, already half done, and
> this seems like some thing that definitely needs to be addressed, due
> to Phoronix's claims:
>
> "... it's already working and can be hooked into Wine!"
>
> If any one wishes to make any comments I'll include those as well as
> contacting Luca Barbieri (?) or who ever is relevant to this over at
> Gallium3D.

Henry Verbeet already gave his point of view from a Wine developer:
http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/mesa-dev/2010-September/003136.html

Jaime Rave

[Henri Verbeet]

On 22 September 2010 01:36, Edward Savage  wrote:
> I've finally got time to push out another WWN, already half done, and
> this seems like some thing that definitely needs to be addressed, due
> to Phoronix's claims:
>
> "... it's already working and can be hooked into Wine!"

Phoronix is full of shit, as always. At this point that site has lost
pretty much all credibility with anyone remotely familiar with the
subjects it writes about.
> If any one wishes to make any comments I'll include those as well as
> contacting Luca Barbieri (?) or who ever is relevant to this over at
> Gallium3D.

Wine isn't going to touch this, or at least I won't. Technical
considerations aside, like the fact that it's C++, needs X11 windows,
and is limited to Mesa drivers, from talking to Luca on IRC it sounds
like this is just the "easy" parts like e.g. resource transfers,
texture format conversion and basic draw calls. Wined3d would be
capable of doing many of those things today, if perhaps in a somewhat
suboptimal way, just by wiring up corresponding d3d10core
functionality to wined3d. The *hard* parts are figuring out things
like the shader and effect formats in a clean way. Luca took a bit of
a shortcut there by not doing effects at all, and using the DDK for
the shader format. That may or may not be ok, depending on what's
actually in the DDK, but I'm not going to take that risk for no good
reason. (And it would still only get us basic shaders, most of which
we've figured out by now anyway. To my knowledge the effect format
isn't documented anywhere.)

The main problem with Wine's d3d10 implementation is that due to IMHO
rather unfortunate circumstances I have been practically unable to
spend time on d3d10 since the start of this year. This means that
while at the end of last year I had expected to have some actual d3d10
applications running by now, and perhaps started on d3d11, the reality
is that the core d3d10 infrastructure is still pretty much where I
left it back then. Suffice it to say that I'm extremely unhappy with
the way D3D development is currently going.