#winehq admin abuse

[Jonathan Challinger]

Below is a log of #winehq, from 9:44 to 10:09 on Wednesday August 15th:
(09:43:50 PM) Pie-rate: my brother's girlfriend's WoW install is
crashing (locking up, stops responding) randomly. she will install
windows tomorrow if it doesn't get fixed. i don't like windows and i
don't want to deal with it. the message it crashes with is:
(09:43:50 PM) Pie-rate: err:ntdll:RtlpWaitForCriticalSection section
0x509da8c "?" wait timed out in thread 0047, blocked by 003e, retrying
(60 sec)
(09:43:50 PM) Pie-rate: this is with an install copied over from my
computer, which i KNOW works flawlessly, and wine 0.9.41
(09:43:54 PM) carretto: vitamin: what?
(09:44:10 PM) carretto: vitamin: _period?
(09:44:15 PM) vitamin: <vitamin> carretto, you have to install the game
on Wine 
(09:44:34 PM) vitamin: Pie-rate, oh well
(09:44:43 PM) Pie-rate: vitamin: "oh well?"
(09:44:46 PM) Pie-rate: vitamin: no magic fix?
(09:44:55 PM) carretto: vitamin: wine <game install>?
(09:45:11 PM) vitamin: carretto, something like that
(09:45:33 PM) otaku [n=[e-mail]]
entered the room.
(09:46:53 PM) carretto: vitamin: wine: Call from 0x40136e to
unimplemented function MFC42.DLL.6929, aborting
(09:47:10 PM) vitamin: carretto, get the newer version of that dll
(09:49:56 PM) carretto: vitamin: i donwload MFC42.dll on dll.files and
past to wine system folder
(09:50:04 PM) vitamin: carretto, get the newer version of that dll
(09:50:14 PM) carretto: here i get the newer version?
(09:50:21 PM) vitamin: from windows
(09:50:50 PM) carretto: vitamin: i download version v. 4.21.71
(09:51:32 PM) shingo2 [n=[e-mail]] entered the
room.
(09:52:27 PM) carretto: vitamin: where i get the new version?
(09:54:48 PM) prgrmr [n=[e-mail]]
entered the room.
(09:55:37 PM) _3 [n=[e-mail]] entered the
room.
(09:57:20 PM) carretto: vitamin: can help me?
(09:57:38 PM) vitamin: carretto, I already answered all your questions
(09:57:50 PM) Pie-rate: vitamin: Read the topic. "End user/tech support
channel for Wine." A derogatory-sounding "oh well" is nothing more than
flamebait. Either say nothing, or help. That's what I try to do, and
that's what's in the best interest of the project. I believe you are a
channel admin, correct? Saying "oh well," without even trying to help is
rude, but saying "oh well" without even trying to help, as a channel
admin? That's like inviting people to an installfest, and then when they
ask for help installing something saying "OH WELL" and spitting in their
faces.
(09:57:59 PM) vitamin: carretto, if you do not undestand answers, then
RTFM, Google, etc
(09:58:56 PM) carretto: vitamin: where i downlaod a newer version?
(09:59:01 PM) vitamin: Pie-rate, Did I offered help? DId you came here
looking for help? Or state that fact that you don't F** care and will
switch to windows?
(09:59:14 PM) vitamin: carretto, Last time: <vitamin> from windows
(09:59:35 PM) Pie-rate: vitamin: i'm not the one switching to windows.
(09:59:39 PM) vitamin: carretto, I do not f*** care where you download
the file. You using _OLD_ version. you need _NEWER_ version of that
file!
(09:59:55 PM) Pie-rate: vitamin: bit testy, today?
(09:59:59 PM) vitamin: carretto, here is the LATEST
http://support.microsoft.com/dllhelp/default.aspx?l=55&fid=198511
(10:00:19 PM) vitamin: Pie-rate, STFU if you have nothing to say
(10:00:46 PM) Pie-rate: vitamin: same to you. you are unnecessarily
cussing out people in a help channel that you administrate.
(10:01:33 PM) mode (+o vitamin ) by ChanServ
(10:01:33 PM) mode (+b %*!*@cust-69-19-214-183.static.o1.com ) by
vitamin
(10:01:36 PM) mode (-o vitamin ) by ChanServ
(10:05:08 PM) Triskelios: vitamin, you really should try to be civil
(10:07:08 PM) wckdkl0wn: how would i run 2 copies of diablo 2 in wine?
(2 copies in windows)
(10:08:15 PM) vitamin: wckdkl0wn, use separate WINEPREFIX for both
(10:08:25 PM) mardum [n=[e-mail]]
entered the room.
(10:09:17 PM) vitamin: Triskelios, thanks for useless comment
(10:09:35 PM) Triskelios: you're welcome
---------------------------end-----------------------------

Vitamin is a disgrace to the OSS community. It is "RTFM and google it"
elitists like him who scare people away from switching to open source
applications. The fact that he was made an admin is inexcusable.

Cussing out everyone asking for help is not behavior an admin should
exhibit. I reported this incident in #winehackers, only to be told that
there are no standards for wine admins. I suggest you get some
standards, this is pathetic. I think my analogy is the best way to
describe exactly WHY this is pathetic: "Saying "oh well," without even
trying to help is rude, but saying "oh well" without even trying to
help, as a channel admin? That's like inviting people to an installfest,
and then when they ask for help installing something saying "OH WELL"
and spitting in their faces."

No, the people in the channel aren't being paid anything to help me or
anyone else. They can choose not to help me. But then, what is the point
of having the channel at all? This kind of abuse is completely against
the spirit of open source and it is despicable that an admin is
exhibiting this behavior.

You may ask why I'm posting this to the development list. I believe it
concerns everyone involved in the project when you have an admin cussing
out anyone and everyone in the help channel, compromising its purpose. I
suggest you develop some standards for your admins.

[Tom Wickline]

On 8/16/07, Jonathan Challinger  wrote:
> Vitamin is a disgrace to the OSS community. It is "RTFM and google it"
> elitists like him who scare people away from switching to open source
> applications. The fact that he was made an admin is inexcusable.

I gladly take the side of vitamin on this issue. I believe he is a
valuable member of the FOSS community, he has contributed many patches
to this and other OSS projects. And in HIS free time he volunteers on
the #winehq IRC channel to help people who want to accept his help...
He tried to help YOU and YOU refused to try what he ask YOU to do!!
YOU kept asking the same stupid *shit* over and over and over until
you got on his last nerve. He cant help someone who doesn't want to
help them self.

Also, it doesn't look to me like he cussed anyone out! but I guess I
just cussed YOU as I used the poo word in this reply. :D

-Tom

[Jan Zerebecki]

[16T07:04:50] <Pie-rate> any admins of #winehq in here other than
vitamin? i'd like to report abuse of admin privileges. here is
the conversation, judge it however you like:
http://pastebin.ca/659216
[16T07:09:29] <Amorphous> Pie-rate, we currently have no rules in
place for channel admins or for communication in general or for
policing power or it's abuse...
[16T07:09:54] <Amorphous> it's something i would like to see
[16T07:09:57] <Pie-rate> Amorphous: then i suggest you develop
some. this is a disgrace to the OSS community. have a nice night.
[16T07:10:00] <-- Pie-rate
(n=[e-mail]) has left
#winehackers

I had no chance anymore to respond to you there...

OSS projects work because people contribute what they like to see
in it. I know some people here are interested in having
communication guidelines. Nobody here found the time to start
work on that yet. So we need your help. I invite you to
participate in our project and help/start developing
communication guidelines to achieve a friendlier atmosphere.

Jan

[Jesse Allen]

On 8/15/07, Jonathan Challinger  wrote:
> Below is a log of #winehq, from 9:44 to 10:09 on Wednesday August 15th:
> (09:43:50 PM) Pie-rate: my brother's girlfriend's WoW install is
> crashing (locking up, stops responding) randomly. she will install
> windows tomorrow if it doesn't get fixed. i don't like windows and i
> don't want to deal with it. the message it crashes with is:
> (09:43:50 PM) Pie-rate: err:ntdll:RtlpWaitForCriticalSection section
> 0x509da8c "?" wait timed out in thread 0047, blocked by 003e, retrying
> (60 sec)
> (09:43:50 PM) Pie-rate: this is with an install copied over from my
> computer, which i KNOW works flawlessly, and wine 0.9.41

First of all, you posed your comments without directly asking for
help. Second, what you stated is good as useless to solving the
problem as far as wine is concerned. I've seen plenty of non-wine
support requests in the past saying "my computer don't work! it needs
to be fixed!" Well what is it really that doesn't work? That needs to
be explained. All the error message you wrote
"err:ntdll:RtlpWaitForCriticalSection section 0x509da8c "?" wait timed
out in thread 0047, blocked by 003e, retrying (60 sec)" effectively
means is that the app is hung -- same thing. Pretty non-descript.
Doesn't describe the root of the problem.

As for the rest of the description, you clearly state that the game
works on another system. This more likely means that Wine is not at
fault here (if indeed same version), and could be that your system
configuration, drivers, or hardware is at fault. You need to compare
the two systems and narrow down the problem. I recommend that is what
you should do. I'm not interested in stepping you through it as there
is no magic solution. Vitamin was obviously disinterested too.
> (09:57:50 PM) Pie-rate: vitamin: Read the topic. "End user/tech support
> channel for Wine." A derogatory-sounding "oh well" is nothing more than
> flamebait. Either say nothing, or help. That's what I try to do, and
> that's what's in the best interest of the project. I believe you are a
> channel admin, correct? Saying "oh well," without even trying to help is
> rude, but saying "oh well" without even trying to help, as a channel
> admin? That's like inviting people to an installfest, and then when they
> ask for help installing something saying "OH WELL" and spitting in their
> faces.

This and the especially the last sentence is clearly a provocation.
You're effectively saying vitamin spits on people. No wonder he blew
up after that. And this comment:
> (09:59:55 PM) Pie-rate: vitamin: bit testy, today?

You were just asking to get banned, which you were then. There was no
longer a point on being there if you were going to talk about him and
not wine.

So was he mean for doing that? Sure. But do you claim you weren't
mean? After all he was only there to try to help. Having someone be
considerate to you starts with you. Lets go to the install-fest
example. Do the helpers know every solution? Why would they begin to
help you if they don't? "Oh well" is more like, "I can't help you",
not the to the extreme, "spitting on someone". As I already told you,
there is no easy way of fixing your problem. IMO you were rude to
vitamin.

Jesse

[Jesse Allen]

> That's like inviting people to an installfest,
> and then when they ask for help installing something saying "OH WELL"
> and spitting in their faces."

I think I can explain my thinking plainer:

One person tells another,
"I need a dollar to buy a candy bar",
You don't have a dollar, or not interested, they say
"oh well, tough"

A logical way to solve the problem is

A) ask some one else for a dollar
B) work and earn a dollar

Both are acceptable. In your case, you pick A) because you aren't a
developer. Well there are other people that can help you, and other
forums. But when a person refuses to help, are they spitting on you?
Really...

Jesse