Gecko installer

[Jacek Caban]

Hi.

Please consider this mail as:

Re: Built-in iexplore
Re: acad 2004 licence file bug
Re: Broken FC5 packages - stay clear.

Last week Wine Gecko was mentioned a few times on this mailing list and 
I can see that there is no understanding of it. It's not really 
surprising as it's a big mess ATM. We can still use Mozilla ActiveX 
control (but that needs to be removed) or (xor) directly Gecko. 
Sometimes  (if the app uses HTMLDocument directly, not via WebBrowser, 
like iexplore does) only the second option works. That has led me to do 
what I am planning to do later. I've just sent Wine Gecko installer. 
After it will be committed, a system similar to Mozilla ActiveX control 
download will have to be set up (that is upload the package to 
SourceForge and add a script that directs download of it). That will 
allow us to get rid of Mozilla ActiveX control.

Thanks,
    Jacek

[Mike Hearn]

On 6/14/06, Jacek Caban  wrote:
> Last week Wine Gecko was mentioned a few times on this mailing list and
> I can see that there is no understanding of it. It's not really
> surprising as it's a big mess ATM. We can still use Mozilla ActiveX
> control (but that needs to be removed) or (xor) directly Gecko.

Directly how? I am still confused, sorry. By "Gecko" do you mean:

-  A win32 copy of Gecko/GRE/XRE installed in  ~/.wine/drive_c?
-  A native Linux copy of Gecko installed as part of, say, the
distributions Firefox?
- Something else?

thanks -mike

[Jacek Caban]

Mike Hearn wrote:
> On 6/14/06, Jacek Caban  wrote:
> > Last week Wine Gecko was mentioned a few times on this mailing list and
> > I can see that there is no understanding of it. It's not really
> > surprising as it's a big mess ATM. We can still use Mozilla ActiveX
> > control (but that needs to be removed) or (xor) directly Gecko.
>
> Directly how? I am still confused, sorry. By "Gecko" do you mean:
> - A win32 copy of Gecko/GRE/XRE installed in  ~/.wine/drive_c?
> - A native Linux copy of Gecko installed as part of, say, the
>
> distributions Firefox?
> - Something else?

See http://www.winehq.org/?issue=285#MSHTML%20Update. I'd really like to 
use Linux Gecko, but it's impossible because we'd need XEmbed embedder 
support that's impossible to implement in Wine (perhaps if we added what 
we need to XEmbed spec?). That's why MSHTML uses Windows Gecko.

Jacek

[Mike Hearn]

On 6/14/06, Jacek Caban  wrote:
> See http://www.winehq.org/?issue=285#MSHTML%20Update. I'd really like to
> use Linux Gecko, but it's impossible because we'd need XEmbed embedder
> support that's impossible to implement in Wine (perhaps if we added what
> we need to XEmbed spec?). That's why MSHTML uses Windows Gecko.

OK. What exactly *do* we need from XEmbed? Is this because we can no
longer use child X windows?

thanks -mike

[Jacek Caban]

Mike Hearn wrote:
> On 6/14/06, Jacek Caban  wrote:
> > See http://www.winehq.org/?issue=285#MSHTML%20Update. I'd really like to
> > use Linux Gecko, but it's impossible because we'd need XEmbed embedder
> > support that's impossible to implement in Wine (perhaps if we added what
> > we need to XEmbed spec?). That's why MSHTML uses Windows Gecko.
>
> OK. What exactly *do* we need from XEmbed? Is this because we can no
> longer use child X windows?

I think Alexandre can give you the best answer. Yes, the problem is 
mostly because of lack of child X windows. The main thing we'd have to 
add to XEmbed spec is clipping but probably there will be more problems. 
And I have no idea if freedesktop guys will accept what we need as 
clipping in XEmbed spec is useless for most apps (probably everyone 
except Wine).

Jacek

[Mike Hearn]

Yes this problem with the lack of child windows is most troublesome.

I wonder if there is another way to solve this though. By using
COMPOSITE to redirect the window heirarcy of the embedded window to a
pixmap we can proxy events and copy the pixmap to simulate window
embedding, without actually doing so.

However it is probably best to ignore this for now, there is nothing
wrong with using a Windows gecko. Especially if it is included in
packages.

On 6/15/06, Jacek Caban  wrote:
> I think Alexandre can give you the best answer. Yes, the problem is
> mostly because of lack of child X windows. The main thing we'd have to
> add to XEmbed spec is clipping but probably there will be more problems.
> And I have no idea if freedesktop guys will accept what we need as
> clipping in XEmbed spec is useless for most apps (probably everyone
> except Wine).

[Saulius Krasuckas]

* On Thu, 15 Jun 2006, Jacek Caban wrote:
> - Mike Hearn wrote:
> > - On 6/14/06, Jacek Caban  wrote:
> > > I'd really like to use Linux Gecko, but it's impossible because 
> > > we'd need XEmbed embedder support that's impossible to implement in 
> > > Wine (perhaps if we added what we need to XEmbed spec?).
> >
> > OK. What exactly *do* we need from XEmbed? Is this because we can no 
> > longer use child X windows?
>
> I think Alexandre can give you the best answer. Yes, the problem is 
> mostly because of lack of child X windows. The main thing we'd have to 
> add to XEmbed spec is clipping but probably there will be more problems. 
> And I have no idea if freedesktop guys will accept what we need as 
> clipping in XEmbed spec is useless for most apps (probably everyone 
> except Wine).

Then maybe we can say to freedesktop folks Wine isn't one application.  
It's tens of applications.  Or maybe they would accept spec for 
independent protocol, called XWine (e.g.) for the mentioned reason? :]

[Boaz Harrosh]

Jacek Caban wrote:
> Hi.
>
> Please consider this mail as:
>
> Re: Built-in iexplore
> Re: acad 2004 licence file bug
> Re: Broken FC5 packages - stay clear.
>
> Last week Wine Gecko was mentioned a few times on this mailing list 
> and I can see that there is no understanding of it. It's not really 
> surprising as it's a big mess ATM. We can still use Mozilla ActiveX 
> control (but that needs to be removed) or (xor) directly Gecko. 
> Sometimes  (if the app uses HTMLDocument directly, not via WebBrowser, 
> like iexplore does) only the second option works. That has led me to 
> do what I am planning to do later. I've just sent Wine Gecko 
> installer. After it will be committed, a system similar to Mozilla 
> ActiveX control download will have to be set up (that is upload the 
> package to SourceForge and add a script that directs download of it). 
> That will allow us to get rid of Mozilla ActiveX control.
>
> Thanks,
>    Jacek

Hi Jacek.

This would maybe also Address my problem. Please see my posting this 
week [Wine's Mozilla Control - Very old]
Please I have a few Questions:
- Are you intending to produce a PE Gecko installer maintained by you or 
are you using a ready made package?
- Will this package be updated from time to time when Gecko is updated? 
and kept as current as possible?
- In theory, do you think your implementation when finished could be 
replacing the "Mozilla ActiveX control" on windows (and ReactOS). I 
don't think you will have any problems with DLL names since Windows can 
be made to load local DLL's first. Any way a Makefile hack could be made 
to change the names. You will, however, need an alternative GUID for 
windows if needed to run alongside IE.
- Will/are you in contact with Mozilla.org people to support us in this 
task. (Updates, chromes, settings, plugins ...)
- Will you have a browser-like application along side this installation 
to let users maintain their gecko engine. (Updates, chromes, settings, 
plugins ...)

I have attempted a bit of this task based on SeaMonkey but I have come 
to the conclusion that I'm not up to the task. Too many if(s) that I 
don't have the answer to.

There is this site http://www.iol.ie/~locka/mozilla/control.htm which 
is the Official site for the Mozilla activeX Control. It looks like it 
as stopped maintaining the Control. The only availability of the 1.8 
version of Gecko and the Control is in SeaMonkey. I have written Adam 
Lock a short e-mail asking on the project status, yesterday. I will keep 
you posted on his response. (??)

Mike wrote ...
> A native Linux copy of Gecko installed as part of, say, the

distributions Firefox?

Please note that Firefox distribution according to Mozilla documentation 
(See FAQ on link above) is not good because the Gecko is statically 
linked and cannot be accessed from outside. The only Project that can be 
used with current Gecko is SeaMonkey. (I may be wrong about Linux-Gecko 
but I suspect they have the same problems as on Windows. dynamic-linking 
load speed)

It looks like all kind of people are looking for a Gecko SDK-kind 
package. I did not find any. If any one knows of one please tell me.

Free Life
Boaz

[Jacek Caban]

Hi Boaz,

Boaz Harrosh wrote:
> Hi Jacek.
>
> This would maybe also Address my problem. Please see my posting this 
> week [Wine's Mozilla Control - Very old]

I doubt if it's what you need. This implementation replaces windows' 
DLLs. What you need is something that replaces only the control. 
Choosing our implementation you loose advantages of Gecko but you get 
more compatibility with IE.
> Please I have a few Questions:
> - Are you intending to produce a PE Gecko installer maintained by you
>
> or are you using a ready made package?

I have a cab file that contains all the needed libraries. This is 
SeaMonkey with some files removed or changed to reduce its size. It 
would be better to build the package ourselves in the future, but it's 
not so important ATM. The code that installs Gecko will be in our MSHTML 
so that no more installers will be needed.
> - Will this package be updated from time to time when Gecko is
>
> updated? and kept as current as possible?

Yes, that's the plan.
> - In theory, do you think your implementation when finished could be
>
> replacing the "Mozilla ActiveX control" on windows (and ReactOS).

The plan is to replace IE libraries, not Mozilla ActiveX control. This 
means replacing the use of Mozilla ActiveX control in Wine (and ReactOS) 
but it's not an option for apps that want to embed Gecko. BTW if someone 
wants to embed Gecko, raw Gecko API is a better choice (and perhaps GTK 
wrapper for Linux) IMO.
> I don't think you will have any problems with DLL names since Windows 
> can be made to load local DLL's first.

That's not the goal of this work but if someone really wants it, one can 
do it.
> Any way a Makefile hack could be made to change the names.

Our goal to replace these DLLs...
> You will, however, need an alternative GUID for windows if needed to 
> run alongside IE.

Again, that's our goal to replace these objects, not to give an app an 
alternative implementation.
> - Will/are you in contact with Mozilla.org people to support us in
>
> this task. (Updates, chromes, settings, plugins ...)

We'll provide our own package so we'll have to do updates ourselves. 
There are some changes I'd like to do in Gecko to allow better MSHTML 
implementation and to remove some hacks, but it has nothing to do with 
packaging and it's not the thing for near future.
> - Will you have a browser-like application along side this
>
> installation to let users maintain their gecko engine. (Updates, 
> chromes, settings, plugins ...)

We want to hide Gecko before user. All settings have to be set the way 
IE does it and automatically passed to Gecko. Updates can be useful, but 
it's not really important ATM. And it can be done automatically so there 
is no need for a new tool for this.
> I have attempted a bit of this task based on SeaMonkey but I have come 
> to the conclusion that I'm not up to the task. Too many if(s) that I 
> don't have the answer to.
>
> There is this site http://www.iol.ie/~locka/mozilla/control.htm 
> which is the Official site for the Mozilla activeX Control. It looks 
> like it as stopped maintaining the Control. The only availability of 
> the 1.8 version of Gecko and the Control is in SeaMonkey. I have 
> written Adam Lock a short e-mail asking on the project status, 
> yesterday. I will keep you posted on his response. (??)
>
> Mike wrote ...
> > A native Linux copy of Gecko installed as part of, say, the
>
> distributions Firefox?
>
> Please note that Firefox distribution according to Mozilla 
> documentation (See FAQ on link above) is not good because the Gecko is 
> statically linked and cannot be accessed from outside. The only 
> Project that can be used with current Gecko is SeaMonkey. (I may be 
> wrong about Linux-Gecko but I suspect they have the same problems as 
> on Windows. dynamic-linking load speed)

How about XUL Runner?
> It looks like all kind of people are looking for a Gecko SDK-kind 
> package. I did not find any. If any one knows of one please tell me.

There is one. It's called gecko-sdk. You may find it on Mozilla ftp:
http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/mozilla/releases/mozilla1.8b1/
I don't know how about other distros, but Gentoo provides a gecko-sdk 
package.

Jacek

[Jacek Caban]

Hi,

Now that Wine Gecko installer is in the tree, we have to enable it. All 
we have to do on Wine side is set one registry value, but  first we need 
to have wine_gecko.cab file available to download. It means:
- Uploading wine_gecko.cab to SourceForge. I don't have an access to do 
so. Could someone that can do it contact me privately? Or perhaps I 
could get access so that in the future, when it needs to be updated I 
could do it without involving others?
- We need php script redirecting to SourceForge similar to one that 
forwards to Mozilla ActiveX control.

Thanks,
    Jacek

[Dimi Paun]

On Sat, 2006-06-24 at 20:06 +0200, Jacek Caban wrote:
> - Uploading wine_gecko.cab to SourceForge. I don't have an access to
>
> do so. Could someone that can do it contact me privately? Or perhaps I
> could get access so that in the future, when it needs to be updated I 
> could do it without involving others?

Yes, I can give you rights to upload. Give me a few minutes...

[TOOLS] Re: Gecko installer

[Jonathan Ernst]

Le samedi 24 juin 2006 à 20:06 +0200, Jacek Caban a écrit :
> Hi,

[...]
> - We need php script redirecting to SourceForge similar to one that
>
> forwards to Mozilla ActiveX control.

Here you are.

[TOOLS] Re: Gecko installer

[Jeremy Newman]

This is now live at:
http://source.winehq.org/winegecko.php

On Sun, 2006-06-25 at 11:40 +0200, Jonathan Ernst wrote:
> Le samedi 24 juin 2006 à 20:06 +0200, Jacek Caban a écrit :
> > Hi,
>
> [...]
> > - We need php script redirecting to SourceForge similar to one that
> >
> > forwards to Mozilla ActiveX control.
>
> Here you are.

[TOOLS] Re: Gecko installer

[Boaz Harrosh]

Jeremy Newman wrote:
> This is now live at:
> http://source.winehq.org/winegecko.php

This is grate!
  It is Based on SeaMonkey version 1.8.0.1. We might want to do some 
kind of version system, this thing gets updated pretty fast, security 
updates and stuff...

By the way, How do you make a CAB file is there a free tool to make it? 
or is it Just a renamed ZIP file?

Free Life
Boaz

[TOOLS] Re: Gecko installer

[Jacek Caban]

Jeremy Newman wrote:
> This is now live at:
> http://source.winehq.org/winegecko.php
>
> On Sun, 2006-06-25 at 11:40 +0200, Jonathan Ernst wrote:
> > Le samedi 24 juin 2006 à 20:06 +0200, Jacek Caban a écrit :
> > > Hi,
> >
> > [...]
> > > - We need php script redirecting to SourceForge similar to one that
> > >
> > > forwards to Mozilla ActiveX control.
> >
> > Here you are.

Thanks Jeremy and Jonathan. I'll send patches that will add the last 
missing part.

Jacek