Zachary Goldberg zgold@bluesata.com
Sent: Feb 3, 2009 10:44 AM To: Wine Devel wine-devel@winehq.org Cc: Jeremy Newman jnewman@codeweavers.com Subject: Fixing AppDB once and for all
All, Lets (arbitrarily) set a time for the chat at:
When: 11PM UTC (6PM EST) 2/6/09 (Friday) Where: #winehackers
This would be too early for people on the West Coast of the United States by about three hours.
No time will be satisfactory for all people who work on this project.
What I feel is necessary at this point is to collect who lives in what time zone so that we incovience as few people as possible.
Since this would be Saturday in Asia, this time may work for the majority of the people on this list.
Also, will there be a transcript of the discussion and where will it be placed since this has a major impact on the functionality of the Applications Database.
James McKenzie
2009/2/3 James Mckenzie jjmckenzie51@earthlink.net:
This would be too early for people on the West Coast of the United States by about three hours.
No time will be satisfactory for all people who work on this project.
What I feel is necessary at this point is to collect who lives in what time zone so that we incovience as few people as possible.
Since this would be Saturday in Asia, this time may work for the majority of the people on this list.
Also, will there be a transcript of the discussion and where will it be placed since this has a major impact on the functionality of the Applications Database.
James McKenzie
I have made a wiki on winehq with an agenda which will be updated with the results (and maybe transcript?) of the conversation.
Tirsdag 03 februar 2009 20:27:25 skrev Zachary Goldberg:
2009/2/3 James Mckenzie jjmckenzie51@earthlink.net:
This would be too early for people on the West Coast of the United States by about three hours.
No time will be satisfactory for all people who work on this project.
What I feel is necessary at this point is to collect who lives in what time zone so that we incovience as few people as possible.
Since this would be Saturday in Asia, this time may work for the majority of the people on this list.
Also, will there be a transcript of the discussion and where will it be placed since this has a major impact on the functionality of the Applications Database.
James McKenzie
I have made a wiki on winehq with an agenda which will be updated with the results (and maybe transcript?) of the conversation.
Great initiative! But I don't think I can make it to the meeting. I recently got appdb commit access, so I can see about making the changes.
What if we add a small questionnaire which will then pick the approprite Gold/Silver ... rating?
Alexander N. Sørnes
On Tue, 3 Feb 2009 23:02:12 +0100 Alexander Nicolaysen Sørnes alex@thehandofagony.com wrote:
What if we add a small questionnaire which will then pick the approprite Gold/Silver ... rating?
That what I like to see.
If you have interest in the future of the AppDB please make sure your ideas are in or referenced by the agenda on the wiki. I think things will go much smoother if we discuss line items from the agenda one by one rather than a random chaos.
How about determining how well an individual app is represented by the test suite?
The better the test suite replicates the behaviour of the app, the more likely wine is to support the app.
nick
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Alright, this is on for tonight at 6PM EST. If you've any interest or opinion of how the AppDB rating system should be upgraded I encourage you to attend and/or check the wiki afterwards to see what was decided.
--Zach
All,
Meeting went well. We had a good number of contributors for more than 2 hours. Several outcomes from the meeting and a transcript are available on the wiki:
http://wiki.winehq.org/AppDBUpgrades
In Summary: We have a consensus that we want to replace the generic open questions we have now with a more structured survey where we can get specific bits of data.
The premise is to turn the current system of 'please tell me how it went' to a more formal 'give us a full formal (and consistent) report of *how* you ran the app and your experience thereafter'.
To accomplish this the idea is two have a survey with two major sections, an "Install" and a "Runtime". Each section strives to get information as to how much progress was made in [installing/running] and how hard it was to make that progress. From there we can generate much more detailed and objective information about how well an application runs. There are several ideas for how to determine an overall 'rating' based on this information.
There is all of this in much more detail on the wiki, just wanted to give a brief summary.
Theres enough information from the discussion to begin moving forward with coding. Andrew Riedi and I thus far are the volunteers to begin digging in. If anybody else is interested in getting their hands dirty please do respond to this, and we'll work out how to get it done. I imagine I'll setup and email a public .git (that isn't live to winehq) for development. Stay tuned for that.
The major open issue is still how to determine a rating and how to display whatever rating. To decide this issue I think we should have another meeting next Friday.
What: Meeting #2 to discuss ratings: Where: #winehackers on irc.freenode.net When: 9PM UTC
Comments?
Meeting went well. We had a good number of contributors for more than 2 hours. Several outcomes from the meeting and a transcript are available on the wiki:
http://wiki.winehq.org/AppDBUpgrades
In Summary: We have a consensus that we want to replace the generic open questions we have now with a more structured survey where we can get specific bits of data.
The premise is to turn the current system of 'please tell me how it went' to a more formal 'give us a full formal (and consistent) report of *how* you ran the app and your experience thereafter'.
To accomplish this the idea is two have a survey with two major sections, an "Install" and a "Runtime". Each section strives to get information as to how much progress was made in [installing/running] and how hard it was to make that progress. From there we can generate much more detailed and objective information about how well an application runs. There are several ideas for how to determine an overall 'rating' based on this information.
There is all of this in much more detail on the wiki, just wanted to give a brief summary.
Theres enough information from the discussion to begin moving forward with coding. Andrew Riedi and I thus far are the volunteers to begin digging in. If anybody else is interested in getting their hands dirty please do respond to this, and we'll work out how to get it done. I imagine I'll setup and email a public .git (that isn't live to winehq) for development. Stay tuned for that.
The major open issue is still how to determine a rating and how to display whatever rating. To decide this issue I think we should have another meeting next Friday.
What: Meeting #2 to discuss ratings: Where: #winehackers on irc.freenode.net When: 9PM UTC
Comments?
Could we also have some discussion about improving the interface for admins/maintainers? I've found that the limitations of the current interface make it very difficult to do basic admin tasks.
Yes I agree.
AppDB admin backend enhancements http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16357
--- On Sat, 7/2/09, Rosanne DiMesio dimesio@earthlink.net wrote:
From: Rosanne DiMesio dimesio@earthlink.net Subject: Re: Fixing AppDB once and for all To: wine-devel@winehq.org Received: Saturday, 7 February, 2009, 11:48 PM
Meeting went well. We had a good number of
contributors for more than
2 hours. Several outcomes from the meeting and a
transcript are
available on the wiki:
http://wiki.winehq.org/AppDBUpgrades
In Summary: We have a consensus that we want to
replace the generic
open questions we have now with a more structured
survey where we can
get specific bits of data.
The premise is to turn the current system of
'please tell me how it
went' to a more formal 'give us a full formal
(and consistent) report
of *how* you ran the app and your experience
thereafter'.
To accomplish this the idea is two have a survey with
two major
sections, an "Install" and a
"Runtime". Each section strives to get
information as to how much progress was made in
[installing/running]
and how hard it was to make that progress. From there
we can generate
much more detailed and objective information about how
well an
application runs. There are several ideas for how to
determine an
overall 'rating' based on this information.
There is all of this in much more detail on the wiki,
just wanted to
give a brief summary.
Theres enough information from the discussion to begin
moving forward
with coding. Andrew Riedi and I thus far are the
volunteers to begin
digging in. If anybody else is interested in getting
their hands
dirty please do respond to this, and we'll work
out how to get it
done. I imagine I'll setup and email a public
.git (that isn't live
to winehq) for development. Stay tuned for that.
The major open issue is still how to determine a
rating and how to
display whatever rating. To decide this issue I think
we should have
another meeting next Friday.
What: Meeting #2 to discuss ratings: Where: #winehackers on irc.freenode.net When: 9PM UTC
Comments?
Could we also have some discussion about improving the interface for admins/maintainers? I've found that the limitations of the current interface make it very difficult to do basic admin tasks.
-- Rosanne DiMesio dimesio@earthlink.net
Make Yahoo!7 your homepage and win a trip to the Quiksilver Pro. Find out more
2009/2/7 Rosanne DiMesio dimesio@earthlink.net:
Could we also have some discussion about improving the interface for admins/maintainers? I've found that the limitations of the current interface make it very difficult to do basic admin tasks.
-- Rosanne DiMesio dimesio@earthlink.net
Rosanne,
I think thats a good idea. Could you please go to the wiki and fill in some details in the (new) Agenda for the next meeting some more details about whats wrong / some framework for ideas on how to improve it?
http://wiki.winehq.org/AppDBUpgrades#head-72164e637b3bc430e5ce6810966b79d5f3...
Cheers, -Zach
Quick clarification on the 'When':
WHEN: 9PM UTC 2/13/09
As far as getting dirty i'm officially covered in mud:
http://repo.or.cz/w/NewAppDB.git
Thus far i've been working in a branch called "survey".
http://repo.or.cz/w/NewAppDB.git?a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/survey
If you're interested in getting messy let me know and I'll add you to the repo.or.cz user list.
--Zach
Could we also have some discussion about improving the interface for admins/maintainers? I've found that the limitations of the current interface make it very difficult to do basic admin tasks.
-- Rosanne DiMesio dimesio@earthlink.net
Rosanne,
I think thats a good idea. Could you please go to the wiki and fill in some details in the (new) Agenda for the next meeting some more details about whats wrong / some framework for ideas on how to improve it?
http://wiki.winehq.org/AppDBUpgrades#head-72164e637b3bc430e5ce6810966b79d5f3...
Cheers, -Zach
I've added my list of "AppDB admin pet peeves" to the agenda for 2/13. Other admins, please take a look and add anything important I may have overlooked.
http://wiki.winehq.org/AppDBUpgrades?action=show#head-7a870d1b0154cf73cb1557...
On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 01:20:47 -0500 Zachary Goldberg zgold@bluesata.com wrote:
Comments?
Can we have a wiki like change log for the notes in the AppDB to see whats be changed when and by who.
Can we have a easy way for maintainers to (plan check for bugs give there system spec and so on). Sorry my spelling has let me down on that one. Like a sub mailing list or some way of sending the same email to all the maintainers of an app that you are an maintainer of.
Why I have said this here and not on the irc is because I can not keep up with real time chat with my spelling skill level.
Theres enough information from the discussion to begin moving forward with coding. Andrew Riedi and I thus far are the volunteers to begin digging in. If anybody else is interested in getting their hands dirty please do respond to this, and we'll work out how to get it done. I imagine I'll setup and email a public .git (that isn't live to winehq) for development. Stay tuned for that.
I can offer assistance with the general appdb design, db questions etc. I'm glad to see that someone is going to pick this stuff up, the appdb could be much better than it is and its a great tool for wine users.
Chris
On Di, 2009-02-03 at 12:19 -0700, James Mckenzie wrote:
What I feel is necessary at this point is to collect who lives in what time zone so that we incovience as few people as possible.
I added a TZ column long ago, when the developer list was on the Fontpage. The infos are now here: http://wiki.winehq.org/WhosWho
-
Alexander Nicolaysen Sørnes -
Chris Morgan -
Detlef Riekenberg -
IneedAname -
James Mckenzie -
nicholas.g.lawrence＠mainroads.qld.gov.au -
nn -
Rosanne DiMesio -
Zachary Goldberg