Wine Weekly News

[Kai Blin]

Hi Zach,

thanks for getting a new WWN issue out there. Finally there's more than one 
release after the other. I think WWN is a really valuable ressource for our 
users. Also, I hope it'll be a platform to get some GSoC exposure on the 
front page, especially without me having to take care of it. ;)

Thanks,
Kai

[Zachary Goldberg]

Kai,

It was my pleasure :).  Keep the interesting wine discussion/news
coming and I'll keep writing WWNs.  I'll also make note to highlight
in particular GSoC developments as they happen.

--Zach

On Dec 4, 2007 6:14 PM, Kai Blin  wrote:
> Hi Zach,
>
> thanks for getting a new WWN issue out there. Finally there's more than one
> release after the other. I think WWN is a really valuable ressource for our
> users. Also, I hope it'll be a platform to get some GSoC exposure on the
> front page, especially without me having to take care of it. ;)
>
> Thanks,
> Kai
> --
> Kai Blin
> WorldForge developer  http://www.worldforge.org/
> Wine developer        http://wiki.winehq.org/KaiBlin
> Samba team member     http://www.samba.org/samba/team/
> --
> Will code for cotton.

[Triton]

On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 18:23:10 -0500
"Zachary Goldberg"  wrote:
> Kai,
>
> It was my pleasure :).  Keep the interesting wine discussion/news
> coming and I'll keep writing WWNs.  I'll also make note to highlight
> in particular GSoC developments as they happen.
>
> --Zach

Hi everyone, I've been following the mailing lists for some time now, this is my first post. OK, presentation done...

I also had to thank you bring to life the WWN, it's a great resource for those who don't actively follow the development discussions.

[Tomas Zijdemans]

This is great :)

Would it be a good idea to include major news from the appDB?
Ex: "Photoshop cs2 has now reached Gold status"

I think this would be very inspiring to users.

Tomas

Triton wrote:
> On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 18:23:10 -0500
> "Zachary Goldberg"  wrote:
> > Kai,
> >
> > It was my pleasure :).  Keep the interesting wine discussion/news
> > coming and I'll keep writing WWNs.  I'll also make note to highlight
> > in particular GSoC developments as they happen.
> >
> > --Zach
>
> Hi everyone, I've been following the mailing lists for some time now, this is my first post. OK, presentation done...
>
> I also had to thank you bring to life the WWN, it's a great resource for those who don't actively follow the development discussions.

[Zachary Goldberg]

Hmmm interesting idea.  I don't actually know just yet who the
maintainer of the AppDB is, but he/she may respond in this thread
(I'll attempt to find out their email anyway) as to whether or not its
possible to generate a weekly summary of applications which have been
"upgraded" through the week?  I agree that that would be a great
addition.

--Zach

On Dec 5, 2007 7:51 AM, Tomas Zijdemans  wrote:
> This is great :)
>
> Would it be a good idea to include major news from the appDB?
> Ex: "Photoshop cs2 has now reached Gold status"
>
> I think this would be very inspiring to users.
>
> Tomas
>
> Triton wrote:
> > On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 18:23:10 -0500
> > "Zachary Goldberg"  wrote:
> > > Kai,
> > >
> > > It was my pleasure :).  Keep the interesting wine discussion/news
> > > coming and I'll keep writing WWNs.  I'll also make note to highlight
> > > in particular GSoC developments as they happen.
> > >
> > > --Zach
> >
> > Hi everyone, I've been following the mailing lists for some time now, this is my first post. OK, presentation done...
> >
> > I also had to thank you bring to life the WWN, it's a great resource for those who don't actively follow the development discussions.

[Alexander Nicolaysen Sørnes]

On Wednesday 05 December 2007 16:08:27 Zachary Goldberg wrote:
> Hmmm interesting idea.  I don't actually know just yet who the
> maintainer of the AppDB is, but he/she may respond in this thread
> (I'll attempt to find out their email anyway) as to whether or not its
> possible to generate a weekly summary of applications which have been
> "upgraded" through the week?  I agree that that would be a great
> addition.

Their e-mail is [e-mail].  They'll have to decide how to track the 
changes, but in any case the code should be in soon.

Alexander N. Sørnes
> --Zach
>
> On Dec 5, 2007 7:51 AM, Tomas Zijdemans  wrote:
> > This is great :)
> >
> > Would it be a good idea to include major news from the appDB?
> > Ex: "Photoshop cs2 has now reached Gold status"
> >
> > I think this would be very inspiring to users.
> >
> > Tomas
> >
> > Triton wrote:
> > > On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 18:23:10 -0500
> > >
> > > "Zachary Goldberg"  wrote:
> > > > Kai,
> > > >
> > > > It was my pleasure :).  Keep the interesting wine discussion/news
> > > > coming and I'll keep writing WWNs.  I'll also make note to highlight
> > > > in particular GSoC developments as they happen.
> > > >
> > > > --Zach
> > >
> > > Hi everyone, I've been following the mailing lists for some time now,
> > > this is my first post. OK, presentation done...
> > >
> > > I also had to thank you bring to life the WWN, it's a great resource
> > > for those who don't actively follow the development discussions.

[Brian Vincent]

On Dec 5, 2007 8:20 AM, Alexander Nicolaysen Sørnes
 wrote:
> Their e-mail is [e-mail].  They'll have to decide how to track the
> changes, but in any case the code should be in soon.

What about downgrades?  Regressions happen.  It'd be terrible one week
to promise something working and then a user finding out it's broken a
few months later.  Of course, even if we could report on apps
regressing it would rely on people actually changing the status in
AppDB and I'm not so sure that'll happen.

-Brian

[Zachary Goldberg]

Brian,

Yep -- i'll be tracking downgrades too.  I'm actually writing the code
myself, you'll likely see the results in next weeks issue

--Zach

On Dec 5, 2007 3:30 PM, Brian Vincent  wrote:
> On Dec 5, 2007 8:20 AM, Alexander Nicolaysen Sørnes
>  wrote:
> > Their e-mail is [e-mail].  They'll have to decide how to track the
> > changes, but in any case the code should be in soon.
>
> What about downgrades?  Regressions happen.  It'd be terrible one week
> to promise something working and then a user finding out it's broken a
> few months later.  Of course, even if we could report on apps
> regressing it would rely on people actually changing the status in
> AppDB and I'm not so sure that'll happen.
>
> -Brian

[Ben Hodgetts (Enverex)]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Possibly, but on the other hand it could just as easily become "Garbage"
in the next release of Wine ;)

(sorry, I already sent this once at the start of the day but emailed it
directly to the previous person rather than back to the list)

Ben H.

Tomas Zijdemans wrote:
> This is great :)
>
> Would it be a good idea to include major news from the appDB?
> Ex: "Photoshop cs2 has now reached Gold status"
>
> I think this would be very inspiring to users.
>
> Tomas
>
> Triton wrote:
> > On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 18:23:10 -0500
> > "Zachary Goldberg"  wrote:
> > > Kai,
> > >
> > > It was my pleasure :).  Keep the interesting wine discussion/news
> > > coming and I'll keep writing WWNs.  I'll also make note to highlight
> > > in particular GSoC developments as they happen.
> > >
> > > --Zach
> >
> > Hi everyone, I've been following the mailing lists for some time now, this is my first post. OK, presentation done...
> >
> > I also had to thank you bring to life the WWN, it's a great resource for those who don't actively follow the development discussions.
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[Zachary Goldberg]

I've finished coding a script which runs the necessary query to
generate data (I download a database backup and run the queries on my
local machine.).  As a sampling (if anybody feels like tripple
checking that the data is correct) of "Upgrades" (and some downgrades)
from 11-27-2007 to 12-04-2007:

Chromadrome 2 - Demo 1.0 (18165)  went from Garbage (2007-11-25
01:25:25) to Platinum (2007-12-02 11:50:43)
Age of Empires II The Age of Kings: 2.x (18083)  went from Silver
(2007-11-15 15:58:30) to Gold (2007-11-30 16:30:18)
Dreamweaver MX (18123)  went from Silver (2007-07-22 03:17:03) to
Garbage (2007-12-01 17:41:49)
Call of Duty United Offensive: 1.5 (18163)  went from Gold (2007-04-06
07:46:23) to Platinum (2007-12-02 11:12:50)
Crysis Single player demo (18094)  went from Garbage (2007-11-06
12:49:00) to Bronze (2007-12-01 03:25:13)
Eschalon Book I Demo Demo (18029)  went from Garbage (2007-11-22
02:37:49) to Platinum (2007-11-29 03:11:20)
Gothic 1.0x (18154)  went from Bronze (2007-11-09 11:48:03) to Garbage
(2007-12-02 09:21:57)
Proteus 7.2 (18050)  went from Garbage (2007-11-18 07:08:51) to Silver
(2007-11-29 22:20:27)
Ys origin 1.1.0.0 - Adol Version (18060)  went from Bronze (2007-07-13
00:20:48) to Silver (2007-11-30 01:38:14)
Mp3tag v2.39 (17994)  went from Platinum (2007-10-20 11:01:13) to Gold
(2007-11-27 15:44:51)
Crayon Release 1 (17988)  went from Gold (2007-11-17 13:34:11) to
Platinum (2007-11-27 11:30:05)
Silencer 1.10.1 (18087)  went from Silver (2007-11-16 15:04:45) to
Platinum (2007-11-30 17:22:00)
.NET Framework 2.0 (18042)  went from Garbage (2007-11-29 10:07:26) to
Platinum (2007-11-30 11:35:57)
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six 3: Raven Shield 1.60 (18057)  went from
Garbage (2007-10-17 11:44:55) to Bronze (2007-11-29 21:43:19)
Safari 3.x Public Beta (18196)  went from Garbage (2007-11-21
03:21:32) to Bronze (2007-12-03 10:03:37)
TTPlayer 5.0.1 (18191)  went from Silver (2007-11-07 05:24:39) to Gold
(2007-12-03 08:43:31)
Sid Meier's Civilization IV Civilization IV Beyond The Sword (3.13)
(18108)  went from Bronze (2007-11-07 06:34:47) to Silver (2007-12-01
10:08:49)
Original War 1.08 (18041)  went from Garbage (2007-11-18 19:59:13) to
Bronze (2007-11-29 09:31:33)
Half-Life 2 Half-Life: Source (17993)  went from Garbage (2007-11-05
14:08:10) to Platinum (2007-11-27 13:49:48)
Serif PhotoPlus PhotoPlus 11 (18201)  went from Garbage (2007-11-17
17:02:33) to Gold (2007-12-03 12:40:39)
MapSource 6.11.5 (18021)  went from Silver (2007-10-17 05:19:10) to
Gold (2007-11-28 18:11:37)
Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare Demo (18143)  went from Garbage
(2007-11-16 11:59:30) to Silver (2007-12-02 06:40:04)
SimCity 4 1.1 638 Rush Hour (18148)  went from Gold (2007-11-25
14:58:28) to Bronze (2007-12-02 07:40:50)

On Dec 5, 2007 5:50 PM, Ben Hodgetts (Enverex)  wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Possibly, but on the other hand it could just as easily become "Garbage"
> in the next release of Wine ;)
>
> (sorry, I already sent this once at the start of the day but emailed it
> directly to the previous person rather than back to the list)
>
> Ben H.
>
> Tomas Zijdemans wrote:
> > This is great :)
> >
> > Would it be a good idea to include major news from the appDB?
> > Ex: "Photoshop cs2 has now reached Gold status"
> >
> > I think this would be very inspiring to users.
> >
> > Tomas
> >
> > Triton wrote:
> > > On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 18:23:10 -0500
> > > "Zachary Goldberg"  wrote:
> > > > Kai,
> > > >
> > > > It was my pleasure :).  Keep the interesting wine discussion/news
> > > > coming and I'll keep writing WWNs.  I'll also make note to highlight
> > > > in particular GSoC developments as they happen.
> > > >
> > > > --Zach
> > >
> > > Hi everyone, I've been following the mailing lists for some time now, this is my first post. OK, presentation done...
> > >
> > > I also had to thank you bring to life the WWN, it's a great resource for those who don't actively follow the development discussions.
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
>
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> IlVnueogwUYAb4y1qx4iU38=
> =qmuz
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

[Alexander Nicolaysen Sørnes]

The problem of using test results as background for this is that they are very 
dependent on the experience of each user. For instance some might be unable 
to run a game because they have execshield or other stuff that mess up Wine, 
or simply because they are not following the how-to instructions.

Take the Age of Empires II test report, for instance.  The user has rated it 
Gold even though the text on the main menu is displayed black instead of 
white (on a dark background), and the game is a bit slow even on a modern 
computer.

The alternative is to use the maintainer ratings, which are generally more 
correct but updated far less frequently.

Alexander N. Sørnes

On Thursday 06 December 2007 00:02:36 Zachary Goldberg wrote:
> I've finished coding a script which runs the necessary query to
> generate data (I download a database backup and run the queries on my
> local machine.).  As a sampling (if anybody feels like tripple
> checking that the data is correct) of "Upgrades" (and some downgrades)
> from 11-27-2007 to 12-04-2007:
>
> Chromadrome 2 - Demo 1.0 (18165)  went from Garbage (2007-11-25
> 01:25:25) to Platinum (2007-12-02 11:50:43)
> Age of Empires II The Age of Kings: 2.x (18083)  went from Silver
> (2007-11-15 15:58:30) to Gold (2007-11-30 16:30:18)
> Dreamweaver MX (18123)  went from Silver (2007-07-22 03:17:03) to
> Garbage (2007-12-01 17:41:49)
> Call of Duty United Offensive: 1.5 (18163)  went from Gold (2007-04-06
> 07:46:23) to Platinum (2007-12-02 11:12:50)
> Crysis Single player demo (18094)  went from Garbage (2007-11-06
> 12:49:00) to Bronze (2007-12-01 03:25:13)
> Eschalon Book I Demo Demo (18029)  went from Garbage (2007-11-22
> 02:37:49) to Platinum (2007-11-29 03:11:20)
> Gothic 1.0x (18154)  went from Bronze (2007-11-09 11:48:03) to Garbage
> (2007-12-02 09:21:57)
> Proteus 7.2 (18050)  went from Garbage (2007-11-18 07:08:51) to Silver
> (2007-11-29 22:20:27)
> Ys origin 1.1.0.0 - Adol Version (18060)  went from Bronze (2007-07-13
> 00:20:48) to Silver (2007-11-30 01:38:14)
> Mp3tag v2.39 (17994)  went from Platinum (2007-10-20 11:01:13) to Gold
> (2007-11-27 15:44:51)
> Crayon Release 1 (17988)  went from Gold (2007-11-17 13:34:11) to
> Platinum (2007-11-27 11:30:05)
> Silencer 1.10.1 (18087)  went from Silver (2007-11-16 15:04:45) to
> Platinum (2007-11-30 17:22:00)
> .NET Framework 2.0 (18042)  went from Garbage (2007-11-29 10:07:26) to
> Platinum (2007-11-30 11:35:57)
> Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six 3: Raven Shield 1.60 (18057)  went from
> Garbage (2007-10-17 11:44:55) to Bronze (2007-11-29 21:43:19)
> Safari 3.x Public Beta (18196)  went from Garbage (2007-11-21
> 03:21:32) to Bronze (2007-12-03 10:03:37)
> TTPlayer 5.0.1 (18191)  went from Silver (2007-11-07 05:24:39) to Gold
> (2007-12-03 08:43:31)
> Sid Meier's Civilization IV Civilization IV Beyond The Sword (3.13)
> (18108)  went from Bronze (2007-11-07 06:34:47) to Silver (2007-12-01
> 10:08:49)
> Original War 1.08 (18041)  went from Garbage (2007-11-18 19:59:13) to
> Bronze (2007-11-29 09:31:33)
> Half-Life 2 Half-Life: Source (17993)  went from Garbage (2007-11-05
> 14:08:10) to Platinum (2007-11-27 13:49:48)
> Serif PhotoPlus PhotoPlus 11 (18201)  went from Garbage (2007-11-17
> 17:02:33) to Gold (2007-12-03 12:40:39)
> MapSource 6.11.5 (18021)  went from Silver (2007-10-17 05:19:10) to
> Gold (2007-11-28 18:11:37)
> Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare Demo (18143)  went from Garbage
> (2007-11-16 11:59:30) to Silver (2007-12-02 06:40:04)
> SimCity 4 1.1 638 Rush Hour (18148)  went from Gold (2007-11-25
> 14:58:28) to Bronze (2007-12-02 07:40:50)
>
> On Dec 5, 2007 5:50 PM, Ben Hodgetts (Enverex)  wrote:
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > Possibly, but on the other hand it could just as easily become "Garbage"
> > in the next release of Wine ;)
> >
> > (sorry, I already sent this once at the start of the day but emailed it
> > directly to the previous person rather than back to the list)
> >
> > Ben H.
> >
> > Tomas Zijdemans wrote:
> > > This is great :)
> > >
> > > Would it be a good idea to include major news from the appDB?
> > > Ex: "Photoshop cs2 has now reached Gold status"
> > >
> > > I think this would be very inspiring to users.
> > >
> > > Tomas
> > >
> > > Triton wrote:
> > > > On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 18:23:10 -0500
> > > >
> > > > "Zachary Goldberg"  wrote:
> > > > > Kai,
> > > > >
> > > > > It was my pleasure :).  Keep the interesting wine discussion/news
> > > > > coming and I'll keep writing WWNs.  I'll also make note to highlight
> > > > > in particular GSoC developments as they happen.
> > > > >
> > > > > --Zach
> > > >
> > > > Hi everyone, I've been following the mailing lists for some time now,
> > > > this is my first post. OK, presentation done...
> > > >
> > > > I also had to thank you bring to life the WWN, it's a great resource
> > > > for those who don't actively follow the development discussions.
> >
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
> >
> > iD8DBQFHVytLuqCUopk11kIRAkesAJ9d/vngVV71xY/749SA8g5hkys4DgCfVEwh
> > IlVnueogwUYAb4y1qx4iU38=
> > =qmuz
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

[Zachary Goldberg]

Here are the updated results for when we only look at updates from App
Maintainers.  It also just so happens that that age of empires case
you mentioned is in fact by a maintainer.  Please respond and leave
your opinion as to which is more worthwhile in the WWN.  Perhaps i'll
put both in different sections.

(replaced dates with wine versions)
Age of Empires II The Age of Kings: 2.x went from Silver (0.9.49) to
Gold (0.9.50)
TTPlayer 5.0.1 went from Silver (0.9.48) to Gold (0.9.50)
Sid Meier's Civilization IV Civilization IV Beyond The Sword (3.13)
went from Bronze (0.9.48) to Silver (0.9.50)
Original War 1.08 went from Garbage (0.9.49) to Bronze (0.9.49)
Call of Duty United Offensive: 1.5 went from Gold (0.9.34) to Platinum (0.9.48)
Gothic 1.0x went from Bronze (0.9.48) to Garbage (0.9.50)
Ys origin 1.1.0.0 - Adol Version went from Bronze (0.9.40) to Silver (0.9.49)
Serif PhotoPlus PhotoPlus 11 went from Garbage (0.9.49) to Gold (0.9.50)

On Dec 5, 2007 6:18 PM, Alexander Nicolaysen Sørnes
 wrote:
> The problem of using test results as background for this is that they are very
> dependent on the experience of each user. For instance some might be unable
> to run a game because they have execshield or other stuff that mess up Wine,
> or simply because they are not following the how-to instructions.
>
> Take the Age of Empires II test report, for instance.  The user has rated it
> Gold even though the text on the main menu is displayed black instead of
> white (on a dark background), and the game is a bit slow even on a modern
> computer.
>
> The alternative is to use the maintainer ratings, which are generally more
> correct but updated far less frequently.
>
> Alexander N. Sørnes
>
> On Thursday 06 December 2007 00:02:36 Zachary Goldberg wrote:
> > I've finished coding a script which runs the necessary query to
> > generate data (I download a database backup and run the queries on my
> > local machine.).  As a sampling (if anybody feels like tripple
> > checking that the data is correct) of "Upgrades" (and some downgrades)
> > from 11-27-2007 to 12-04-2007:
> >
> > Chromadrome 2 - Demo 1.0 (18165)  went from Garbage (2007-11-25
> > 01:25:25) to Platinum (2007-12-02 11:50:43)
> > Age of Empires II The Age of Kings: 2.x (18083)  went from Silver
> > (2007-11-15 15:58:30) to Gold (2007-11-30 16:30:18)
> > Dreamweaver MX (18123)  went from Silver (2007-07-22 03:17:03) to
> > Garbage (2007-12-01 17:41:49)
> > Call of Duty United Offensive: 1.5 (18163)  went from Gold (2007-04-06
> > 07:46:23) to Platinum (2007-12-02 11:12:50)
> > Crysis Single player demo (18094)  went from Garbage (2007-11-06
> > 12:49:00) to Bronze (2007-12-01 03:25:13)
> > Eschalon Book I Demo Demo (18029)  went from Garbage (2007-11-22
> > 02:37:49) to Platinum (2007-11-29 03:11:20)
> > Gothic 1.0x (18154)  went from Bronze (2007-11-09 11:48:03) to Garbage
> > (2007-12-02 09:21:57)
> > Proteus 7.2 (18050)  went from Garbage (2007-11-18 07:08:51) to Silver
> > (2007-11-29 22:20:27)
> > Ys origin 1.1.0.0 - Adol Version (18060)  went from Bronze (2007-07-13
> > 00:20:48) to Silver (2007-11-30 01:38:14)
> > Mp3tag v2.39 (17994)  went from Platinum (2007-10-20 11:01:13) to Gold
> > (2007-11-27 15:44:51)
> > Crayon Release 1 (17988)  went from Gold (2007-11-17 13:34:11) to
> > Platinum (2007-11-27 11:30:05)
> > Silencer 1.10.1 (18087)  went from Silver (2007-11-16 15:04:45) to
> > Platinum (2007-11-30 17:22:00)
> > .NET Framework 2.0 (18042)  went from Garbage (2007-11-29 10:07:26) to
> > Platinum (2007-11-30 11:35:57)
> > Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six 3: Raven Shield 1.60 (18057)  went from
> > Garbage (2007-10-17 11:44:55) to Bronze (2007-11-29 21:43:19)
> > Safari 3.x Public Beta (18196)  went from Garbage (2007-11-21
> > 03:21:32) to Bronze (2007-12-03 10:03:37)
> > TTPlayer 5.0.1 (18191)  went from Silver (2007-11-07 05:24:39) to Gold
> > (2007-12-03 08:43:31)
> > Sid Meier's Civilization IV Civilization IV Beyond The Sword (3.13)
> > (18108)  went from Bronze (2007-11-07 06:34:47) to Silver (2007-12-01
> > 10:08:49)
> > Original War 1.08 (18041)  went from Garbage (2007-11-18 19:59:13) to
> > Bronze (2007-11-29 09:31:33)
> > Half-Life 2 Half-Life: Source (17993)  went from Garbage (2007-11-05
> > 14:08:10) to Platinum (2007-11-27 13:49:48)
> > Serif PhotoPlus PhotoPlus 11 (18201)  went from Garbage (2007-11-17
> > 17:02:33) to Gold (2007-12-03 12:40:39)
> > MapSource 6.11.5 (18021)  went from Silver (2007-10-17 05:19:10) to
> > Gold (2007-11-28 18:11:37)
> > Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare Demo (18143)  went from Garbage
> > (2007-11-16 11:59:30) to Silver (2007-12-02 06:40:04)
> > SimCity 4 1.1 638 Rush Hour (18148)  went from Gold (2007-11-25
> > 14:58:28) to Bronze (2007-12-02 07:40:50)
> >
> > On Dec 5, 2007 5:50 PM, Ben Hodgetts (Enverex)  wrote:
> > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > > Hash: SHA1
> > >
> > > Possibly, but on the other hand it could just as easily become "Garbage"
> > > in the next release of Wine ;)
> > >
> > > (sorry, I already sent this once at the start of the day but emailed it
> > > directly to the previous person rather than back to the list)
> > >
> > > Ben H.
> > >
> > > Tomas Zijdemans wrote:
> > > > This is great :)
> > > >
> > > > Would it be a good idea to include major news from the appDB?
> > > > Ex: "Photoshop cs2 has now reached Gold status"
> > > >
> > > > I think this would be very inspiring to users.
> > > >
> > > > Tomas
> > > >
> > > > Triton wrote:
> > > > > On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 18:23:10 -0500
> > > > >
> > > > > "Zachary Goldberg"  wrote:
> > > > > > Kai,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It was my pleasure :).  Keep the interesting wine discussion/news
> > > > > > coming and I'll keep writing WWNs.  I'll also make note to highlight
> > > > > > in particular GSoC developments as they happen.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --Zach
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi everyone, I've been following the mailing lists for some time now,
> > > > > this is my first post. OK, presentation done...
> > > > >
> > > > > I also had to thank you bring to life the WWN, it's a great resource
> > > > > for those who don't actively follow the development discussions.
> > >
> > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
> > >
> > > iD8DBQFHVytLuqCUopk11kIRAkesAJ9d/vngVV71xY/749SA8g5hkys4DgCfVEwh
> > > IlVnueogwUYAb4y1qx4iU38=
> > > =qmuz
> > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

[Alexander Nicolaysen Sørnes]

On Thursday 06 December 2007 00:44:03 Zachary Goldberg wrote:
> Here are the updated results for when we only look at updates from App
> Maintainers.  It also just so happens that that age of empires case
> you mentioned is in fact by a maintainer.  Please respond and leave
> your opinion as to which is more worthwhile in the WWN.  Perhaps i'll
> put both in different sections.

The maintainer ratings are a field in the appVersions table, but they are not 
as frequently updated as test results.

An option might be to take the highest rating from each Wine version from the 
test results and compare them.  That would avoid many errors, but would still 
not help in cases where apps are over-rated, such as with Age of Empires II.

Alexander
> (replaced dates with wine versions)
> Age of Empires II The Age of Kings: 2.x went from Silver (0.9.49) to
> Gold (0.9.50)
> TTPlayer 5.0.1 went from Silver (0.9.48) to Gold (0.9.50)
> Sid Meier's Civilization IV Civilization IV Beyond The Sword (3.13)
> went from Bronze (0.9.48) to Silver (0.9.50)
> Original War 1.08 went from Garbage (0.9.49) to Bronze (0.9.49)
> Call of Duty United Offensive: 1.5 went from Gold (0.9.34) to Platinum
> (0.9.48) Gothic 1.0x went from Bronze (0.9.48) to Garbage (0.9.50)
> Ys origin 1.1.0.0 - Adol Version went from Bronze (0.9.40) to Silver
> (0.9.49) Serif PhotoPlus PhotoPlus 11 went from Garbage (0.9.49) to Gold
> (0.9.50)
>
> On Dec 5, 2007 6:18 PM, Alexander Nicolaysen Sørnes
>
>  wrote:
> > The problem of using test results as background for this is that they are
> > very dependent on the experience of each user. For instance some might be
> > unable to run a game because they have execshield or other stuff that
> > mess up Wine, or simply because they are not following the how-to
> > instructions.
> >
> > Take the Age of Empires II test report, for instance.  The user has rated
> > it Gold even though the text on the main menu is displayed black instead
> > of white (on a dark background), and the game is a bit slow even on a
> > modern computer.
> >
> > The alternative is to use the maintainer ratings, which are generally
> > more correct but updated far less frequently.
> >
> > Alexander N. Sørnes
> >
> > On Thursday 06 December 2007 00:02:36 Zachary Goldberg wrote:
> > > I've finished coding a script which runs the necessary query to
> > > generate data (I download a database backup and run the queries on my
> > > local machine.).  As a sampling (if anybody feels like tripple
> > > checking that the data is correct) of "Upgrades" (and some downgrades)
> > > from 11-27-2007 to 12-04-2007:
> > >
> > > Chromadrome 2 - Demo 1.0 (18165)  went from Garbage (2007-11-25
> > > 01:25:25) to Platinum (2007-12-02 11:50:43)
> > > Age of Empires II The Age of Kings: 2.x (18083)  went from Silver
> > > (2007-11-15 15:58:30) to Gold (2007-11-30 16:30:18)
> > > Dreamweaver MX (18123)  went from Silver (2007-07-22 03:17:03) to
> > > Garbage (2007-12-01 17:41:49)
> > > Call of Duty United Offensive: 1.5 (18163)  went from Gold (2007-04-06
> > > 07:46:23) to Platinum (2007-12-02 11:12:50)
> > > Crysis Single player demo (18094)  went from Garbage (2007-11-06
> > > 12:49:00) to Bronze (2007-12-01 03:25:13)
> > > Eschalon Book I Demo Demo (18029)  went from Garbage (2007-11-22
> > > 02:37:49) to Platinum (2007-11-29 03:11:20)
> > > Gothic 1.0x (18154)  went from Bronze (2007-11-09 11:48:03) to Garbage
> > > (2007-12-02 09:21:57)
> > > Proteus 7.2 (18050)  went from Garbage (2007-11-18 07:08:51) to Silver
> > > (2007-11-29 22:20:27)
> > > Ys origin 1.1.0.0 - Adol Version (18060)  went from Bronze (2007-07-13
> > > 00:20:48) to Silver (2007-11-30 01:38:14)
> > > Mp3tag v2.39 (17994)  went from Platinum (2007-10-20 11:01:13) to Gold
> > > (2007-11-27 15:44:51)
> > > Crayon Release 1 (17988)  went from Gold (2007-11-17 13:34:11) to
> > > Platinum (2007-11-27 11:30:05)
> > > Silencer 1.10.1 (18087)  went from Silver (2007-11-16 15:04:45) to
> > > Platinum (2007-11-30 17:22:00)
> > > .NET Framework 2.0 (18042)  went from Garbage (2007-11-29 10:07:26) to
> > > Platinum (2007-11-30 11:35:57)
> > > Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six 3: Raven Shield 1.60 (18057)  went from
> > > Garbage (2007-10-17 11:44:55) to Bronze (2007-11-29 21:43:19)
> > > Safari 3.x Public Beta (18196)  went from Garbage (2007-11-21
> > > 03:21:32) to Bronze (2007-12-03 10:03:37)
> > > TTPlayer 5.0.1 (18191)  went from Silver (2007-11-07 05:24:39) to Gold
> > > (2007-12-03 08:43:31)
> > > Sid Meier's Civilization IV Civilization IV Beyond The Sword (3.13)
> > > (18108)  went from Bronze (2007-11-07 06:34:47) to Silver (2007-12-01
> > > 10:08:49)
> > > Original War 1.08 (18041)  went from Garbage (2007-11-18 19:59:13) to
> > > Bronze (2007-11-29 09:31:33)
> > > Half-Life 2 Half-Life: Source (17993)  went from Garbage (2007-11-05
> > > 14:08:10) to Platinum (2007-11-27 13:49:48)
> > > Serif PhotoPlus PhotoPlus 11 (18201)  went from Garbage (2007-11-17
> > > 17:02:33) to Gold (2007-12-03 12:40:39)
> > > MapSource 6.11.5 (18021)  went from Silver (2007-10-17 05:19:10) to
> > > Gold (2007-11-28 18:11:37)
> > > Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare Demo (18143)  went from Garbage
> > > (2007-11-16 11:59:30) to Silver (2007-12-02 06:40:04)
> > > SimCity 4 1.1 638 Rush Hour (18148)  went from Gold (2007-11-25
> > > 14:58:28) to Bronze (2007-12-02 07:40:50)
> > >
> > > On Dec 5, 2007 5:50 PM, Ben Hodgetts (Enverex)

wrote:
> > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > > > Hash: SHA1
> > > >
> > > > Possibly, but on the other hand it could just as easily become
> > > > "Garbage" in the next release of Wine ;)
> > > >
> > > > (sorry, I already sent this once at the start of the day but emailed
> > > > it directly to the previous person rather than back to the list)
> > > >
> > > > Ben H.
> > > >
> > > > Tomas Zijdemans wrote:
> > > > > This is great :)
> > > > >
> > > > > Would it be a good idea to include major news from the appDB?
> > > > > Ex: "Photoshop cs2 has now reached Gold status"
> > > > >
> > > > > I think this would be very inspiring to users.
> > > > >
> > > > > Tomas
> > > > >
> > > > > Triton wrote:
> > > > > > On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 18:23:10 -0500
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Zachary Goldberg"  wrote:
> > > > > > > Kai,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It was my pleasure :).  Keep the interesting wine discussion/news
> > > > > > > coming and I'll keep writing WWNs.  I'll also make note to
> > > > > > > highlight in particular GSoC developments as they happen.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --Zach
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi everyone, I've been following the mailing lists for some time
> > > > > > now, this is my first post. OK, presentation done...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I also had to thank you bring to life the WWN, it's a great
> > > > > > resource for those who don't actively follow the development
> > > > > > discussions.
> > > >
> > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > > > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
> > > >
> > > > iD8DBQFHVytLuqCUopk11kIRAkesAJ9d/vngVV71xY/749SA8g5hkys4DgCfVEwh
> > > > IlVnueogwUYAb4y1qx4iU38=
> > > > =qmuz
> > > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

[Zachary Goldberg]

Do you feel apps get updated enough that there are enough instances of
an app being reviewed more than once per release to change these
results?

On Dec 5, 2007 6:52 PM, Alexander Nicolaysen Sørnes
 wrote:
> On Thursday 06 December 2007 00:44:03 Zachary Goldberg wrote:
> > Here are the updated results for when we only look at updates from App
> > Maintainers.  It also just so happens that that age of empires case
> > you mentioned is in fact by a maintainer.  Please respond and leave
> > your opinion as to which is more worthwhile in the WWN.  Perhaps i'll
> > put both in different sections.
>
> The maintainer ratings are a field in the appVersions table, but they are not
> as frequently updated as test results.
>
> An option might be to take the highest rating from each Wine version from the
> test results and compare them.  That would avoid many errors, but would still
> not help in cases where apps are over-rated, such as with Age of Empires II.
>
> Alexander
> > (replaced dates with wine versions)
> > Age of Empires II The Age of Kings: 2.x went from Silver (0.9.49) to
> > Gold (0.9.50)
> > TTPlayer 5.0.1 went from Silver (0.9.48) to Gold (0.9.50)
> > Sid Meier's Civilization IV Civilization IV Beyond The Sword (3.13)
> > went from Bronze (0.9.48) to Silver (0.9.50)
> > Original War 1.08 went from Garbage (0.9.49) to Bronze (0.9.49)
> > Call of Duty United Offensive: 1.5 went from Gold (0.9.34) to Platinum
> > (0.9.48) Gothic 1.0x went from Bronze (0.9.48) to Garbage (0.9.50)
> > Ys origin 1.1.0.0 - Adol Version went from Bronze (0.9.40) to Silver
> > (0.9.49) Serif PhotoPlus PhotoPlus 11 went from Garbage (0.9.49) to Gold
> > (0.9.50)
> >
> > On Dec 5, 2007 6:18 PM, Alexander Nicolaysen Sørnes
> >
> >  wrote:
> > > The problem of using test results as background for this is that they are
> > > very dependent on the experience of each user. For instance some might be
> > > unable to run a game because they have execshield or other stuff that
> > > mess up Wine, or simply because they are not following the how-to
> > > instructions.
> > >
> > > Take the Age of Empires II test report, for instance.  The user has rated
> > > it Gold even though the text on the main menu is displayed black instead
> > > of white (on a dark background), and the game is a bit slow even on a
> > > modern computer.
> > >
> > > The alternative is to use the maintainer ratings, which are generally
> > > more correct but updated far less frequently.
> > >
> > > Alexander N. Sørnes
> > >
> > > On Thursday 06 December 2007 00:02:36 Zachary Goldberg wrote:
> > > > I've finished coding a script which runs the necessary query to
> > > > generate data (I download a database backup and run the queries on my
> > > > local machine.).  As a sampling (if anybody feels like tripple
> > > > checking that the data is correct) of "Upgrades" (and some downgrades)
> > > > from 11-27-2007 to 12-04-2007:
> > > >
> > > > Chromadrome 2 - Demo 1.0 (18165)  went from Garbage (2007-11-25
> > > > 01:25:25) to Platinum (2007-12-02 11:50:43)
> > > > Age of Empires II The Age of Kings: 2.x (18083)  went from Silver
> > > > (2007-11-15 15:58:30) to Gold (2007-11-30 16:30:18)
> > > > Dreamweaver MX (18123)  went from Silver (2007-07-22 03:17:03) to
> > > > Garbage (2007-12-01 17:41:49)
> > > > Call of Duty United Offensive: 1.5 (18163)  went from Gold (2007-04-06
> > > > 07:46:23) to Platinum (2007-12-02 11:12:50)
> > > > Crysis Single player demo (18094)  went from Garbage (2007-11-06
> > > > 12:49:00) to Bronze (2007-12-01 03:25:13)
> > > > Eschalon Book I Demo Demo (18029)  went from Garbage (2007-11-22
> > > > 02:37:49) to Platinum (2007-11-29 03:11:20)
> > > > Gothic 1.0x (18154)  went from Bronze (2007-11-09 11:48:03) to Garbage
> > > > (2007-12-02 09:21:57)
> > > > Proteus 7.2 (18050)  went from Garbage (2007-11-18 07:08:51) to Silver
> > > > (2007-11-29 22:20:27)
> > > > Ys origin 1.1.0.0 - Adol Version (18060)  went from Bronze (2007-07-13
> > > > 00:20:48) to Silver (2007-11-30 01:38:14)
> > > > Mp3tag v2.39 (17994)  went from Platinum (2007-10-20 11:01:13) to Gold
> > > > (2007-11-27 15:44:51)
> > > > Crayon Release 1 (17988)  went from Gold (2007-11-17 13:34:11) to
> > > > Platinum (2007-11-27 11:30:05)
> > > > Silencer 1.10.1 (18087)  went from Silver (2007-11-16 15:04:45) to
> > > > Platinum (2007-11-30 17:22:00)
> > > > .NET Framework 2.0 (18042)  went from Garbage (2007-11-29 10:07:26) to
> > > > Platinum (2007-11-30 11:35:57)
> > > > Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six 3: Raven Shield 1.60 (18057)  went from
> > > > Garbage (2007-10-17 11:44:55) to Bronze (2007-11-29 21:43:19)
> > > > Safari 3.x Public Beta (18196)  went from Garbage (2007-11-21
> > > > 03:21:32) to Bronze (2007-12-03 10:03:37)
> > > > TTPlayer 5.0.1 (18191)  went from Silver (2007-11-07 05:24:39) to Gold
> > > > (2007-12-03 08:43:31)
> > > > Sid Meier's Civilization IV Civilization IV Beyond The Sword (3.13)
> > > > (18108)  went from Bronze (2007-11-07 06:34:47) to Silver (2007-12-01
> > > > 10:08:49)
> > > > Original War 1.08 (18041)  went from Garbage (2007-11-18 19:59:13) to
> > > > Bronze (2007-11-29 09:31:33)
> > > > Half-Life 2 Half-Life: Source (17993)  went from Garbage (2007-11-05
> > > > 14:08:10) to Platinum (2007-11-27 13:49:48)
> > > > Serif PhotoPlus PhotoPlus 11 (18201)  went from Garbage (2007-11-17
> > > > 17:02:33) to Gold (2007-12-03 12:40:39)
> > > > MapSource 6.11.5 (18021)  went from Silver (2007-10-17 05:19:10) to
> > > > Gold (2007-11-28 18:11:37)
> > > > Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare Demo (18143)  went from Garbage
> > > > (2007-11-16 11:59:30) to Silver (2007-12-02 06:40:04)
> > > > SimCity 4 1.1 638 Rush Hour (18148)  went from Gold (2007-11-25
> > > > 14:58:28) to Bronze (2007-12-02 07:40:50)
> > > >
> > > > On Dec 5, 2007 5:50 PM, Ben Hodgetts (Enverex)
>
> wrote:
> > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > > > > Hash: SHA1
> > > > >
> > > > > Possibly, but on the other hand it could just as easily become
> > > > > "Garbage" in the next release of Wine ;)
> > > > >
> > > > > (sorry, I already sent this once at the start of the day but emailed
> > > > > it directly to the previous person rather than back to the list)
> > > > >
> > > > > Ben H.
> > > > >
> > > > > Tomas Zijdemans wrote:
> > > > > > This is great :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Would it be a good idea to include major news from the appDB?
> > > > > > Ex: "Photoshop cs2 has now reached Gold status"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think this would be very inspiring to users.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Tomas
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Triton wrote:
> > > > > > > On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 18:23:10 -0500
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Zachary Goldberg"  wrote:
> > > > > > >> Kai,
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> It was my pleasure :).  Keep the interesting wine discussion/news
> > > > > > >> coming and I'll keep writing WWNs.  I'll also make note to
> > > > > > >> highlight in particular GSoC developments as they happen.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> --Zach
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi everyone, I've been following the mailing lists for some time
> > > > > > > now, this is my first post. OK, presentation done...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I also had to thank you bring to life the WWN, it's a great
> > > > > > > resource for those who don't actively follow the development
> > > > > > > discussions.
> > > > >
> > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > > > > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
> > > > >
> > > > > iD8DBQFHVytLuqCUopk11kIRAkesAJ9d/vngVV71xY/749SA8g5hkys4DgCfVEwh
> > > > > IlVnueogwUYAb4y1qx4iU38=
> > > > > =qmuz
> > > > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

[Jonathan Ernst]

Hello,

First, thank you for your work on the WWN !

About the new "AppDB Application Status Changes", I see that you have a
"change" column. What do you think about adding the sum of this column
somewhere so we can see how/if Wine is improving between releases
regarding application compatibility (of course this would be just an
indication).

Best regards.

Jonathan

[Zachary Goldberg]

I thought about it, but wasn't sure of the usefulness of such a
number.  If consensus is that it would be worth having, i'll add it
for WWN 335.

On Dec 10, 2007 3:57 PM, Jonathan Ernst  wrote:
> Hello,
>
> First, thank you for your work on the WWN !
>
> About the new "AppDB Application Status Changes", I see that you have a
> "change" column. What do you think about adding the sum of this column
> somewhere so we can see how/if Wine is improving between releases
> regarding application compatibility (of course this would be just an
> indication).
>
> Best regards.
>
> Jonathan

[Zac Brown]

Zachary Goldberg wrote:
> I thought about it, but wasn't sure of the usefulness of such a
> number.  If consensus is that it would be worth having, i'll add it
> for WWN 335.
>
> On Dec 10, 2007 3:57 PM, Jonathan Ernst  wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > First, thank you for your work on the WWN !
> >
> > About the new "AppDB Application Status Changes", I see that you have a
> > "change" column. What do you think about adding the sum of this column
> > somewhere so we can see how/if Wine is improving between releases
> > regarding application compatibility (of course this would be just an
> > indication).
> >
> > Best regards.
> >
> > Jonathan

I'd like to see that as well. Could be interesting.

Cheers,

-Zac

[Francois Gouget]

On Mon, 10 Dec 2007, Jonathan Ernst wrote:
[...]
> About the new "AppDB Application Status Changes", I see that you have a
> "change" column.

I'm not convinced this column is of any use: it only repeats what we see 
in the other two columns but in a less obvious way.

The total / global trend however would be more useful. Something like:
Applications whose rating improved: X
Applications whose rating worsened: Y

I'm not sure more detail is pratical because there are lots of possible 
transitions: from Garbage to Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum; from 
Silver to Garbage, ... (10 total).

We could also have a count of new applications for each rating. But 
if this also counts newly added applications, then it does not say much 
about whether applications improve or not. But it would give an idea of 
the level of activity in the application database.

[Chris Morgan]

i'd argue that this means we need to be smarter about how we process
the test results. We need both a confidence and a rating and some way
to reflect this in the results.

Your other point about configuration, if users have problems with
configuration then while it may be their fault its not really their
fault if we let them misconfigure wine. I'm of course assuming that
they aren't being malicious of course.

Chris

On Dec 5, 2007 6:18 PM, Alexander Nicolaysen Sørnes
 wrote:
> The problem of using test results as background for this is that they are very
> dependent on the experience of each user. For instance some might be unable
> to run a game because they have execshield or other stuff that mess up Wine,
> or simply because they are not following the how-to instructions.
>
> Take the Age of Empires II test report, for instance.  The user has rated it
> Gold even though the text on the main menu is displayed black instead of
> white (on a dark background), and the game is a bit slow even on a modern
> computer.
>
> The alternative is to use the maintainer ratings, which are generally more
> correct but updated far less frequently.
>
> Alexander N. Sørnes
>
> On Thursday 06 December 2007 00:02:36 Zachary Goldberg wrote:
> > I've finished coding a script which runs the necessary query to
> > generate data (I download a database backup and run the queries on my
> > local machine.).  As a sampling (if anybody feels like tripple
> > checking that the data is correct) of "Upgrades" (and some downgrades)
> > from 11-27-2007 to 12-04-2007:
> >
> > Chromadrome 2 - Demo 1.0 (18165)  went from Garbage (2007-11-25
> > 01:25:25) to Platinum (2007-12-02 11:50:43)
> > Age of Empires II The Age of Kings: 2.x (18083)  went from Silver
> > (2007-11-15 15:58:30) to Gold (2007-11-30 16:30:18)
> > Dreamweaver MX (18123)  went from Silver (2007-07-22 03:17:03) to
> > Garbage (2007-12-01 17:41:49)
> > Call of Duty United Offensive: 1.5 (18163)  went from Gold (2007-04-06
> > 07:46:23) to Platinum (2007-12-02 11:12:50)
> > Crysis Single player demo (18094)  went from Garbage (2007-11-06
> > 12:49:00) to Bronze (2007-12-01 03:25:13)
> > Eschalon Book I Demo Demo (18029)  went from Garbage (2007-11-22
> > 02:37:49) to Platinum (2007-11-29 03:11:20)
> > Gothic 1.0x (18154)  went from Bronze (2007-11-09 11:48:03) to Garbage
> > (2007-12-02 09:21:57)
> > Proteus 7.2 (18050)  went from Garbage (2007-11-18 07:08:51) to Silver
> > (2007-11-29 22:20:27)
> > Ys origin 1.1.0.0 - Adol Version (18060)  went from Bronze (2007-07-13
> > 00:20:48) to Silver (2007-11-30 01:38:14)
> > Mp3tag v2.39 (17994)  went from Platinum (2007-10-20 11:01:13) to Gold
> > (2007-11-27 15:44:51)
> > Crayon Release 1 (17988)  went from Gold (2007-11-17 13:34:11) to
> > Platinum (2007-11-27 11:30:05)
> > Silencer 1.10.1 (18087)  went from Silver (2007-11-16 15:04:45) to
> > Platinum (2007-11-30 17:22:00)
> > .NET Framework 2.0 (18042)  went from Garbage (2007-11-29 10:07:26) to
> > Platinum (2007-11-30 11:35:57)
> > Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six 3: Raven Shield 1.60 (18057)  went from
> > Garbage (2007-10-17 11:44:55) to Bronze (2007-11-29 21:43:19)
> > Safari 3.x Public Beta (18196)  went from Garbage (2007-11-21
> > 03:21:32) to Bronze (2007-12-03 10:03:37)
> > TTPlayer 5.0.1 (18191)  went from Silver (2007-11-07 05:24:39) to Gold
> > (2007-12-03 08:43:31)
> > Sid Meier's Civilization IV Civilization IV Beyond The Sword (3.13)
> > (18108)  went from Bronze (2007-11-07 06:34:47) to Silver (2007-12-01
> > 10:08:49)
> > Original War 1.08 (18041)  went from Garbage (2007-11-18 19:59:13) to
> > Bronze (2007-11-29 09:31:33)
> > Half-Life 2 Half-Life: Source (17993)  went from Garbage (2007-11-05
> > 14:08:10) to Platinum (2007-11-27 13:49:48)
> > Serif PhotoPlus PhotoPlus 11 (18201)  went from Garbage (2007-11-17
> > 17:02:33) to Gold (2007-12-03 12:40:39)
> > MapSource 6.11.5 (18021)  went from Silver (2007-10-17 05:19:10) to
> > Gold (2007-11-28 18:11:37)
> > Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare Demo (18143)  went from Garbage
> > (2007-11-16 11:59:30) to Silver (2007-12-02 06:40:04)
> > SimCity 4 1.1 638 Rush Hour (18148)  went from Gold (2007-11-25
> > 14:58:28) to Bronze (2007-12-02 07:40:50)
> >
> > On Dec 5, 2007 5:50 PM, Ben Hodgetts (Enverex)  wrote:
> > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > > Hash: SHA1
> > >
> > > Possibly, but on the other hand it could just as easily become "Garbage"
> > > in the next release of Wine ;)
> > >
> > > (sorry, I already sent this once at the start of the day but emailed it
> > > directly to the previous person rather than back to the list)
> > >
> > > Ben H.
> > >
> > > Tomas Zijdemans wrote:
> > > > This is great :)
> > > >
> > > > Would it be a good idea to include major news from the appDB?
> > > > Ex: "Photoshop cs2 has now reached Gold status"
> > > >
> > > > I think this would be very inspiring to users.
> > > >
> > > > Tomas
> > > >
> > > > Triton wrote:
> > > > > On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 18:23:10 -0500
> > > > >
> > > > > "Zachary Goldberg"  wrote:
> > > > > > Kai,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It was my pleasure :).  Keep the interesting wine discussion/news
> > > > > > coming and I'll keep writing WWNs.  I'll also make note to highlight
> > > > > > in particular GSoC developments as they happen.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --Zach
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi everyone, I've been following the mailing lists for some time now,
> > > > > this is my first post. OK, presentation done...
> > > > >
> > > > > I also had to thank you bring to life the WWN, it's a great resource
> > > > > for those who don't actively follow the development discussions.
> > >
> > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
> > >
> > > iD8DBQFHVytLuqCUopk11kIRAkesAJ9d/vngVV71xY/749SA8g5hkys4DgCfVEwh
> > > IlVnueogwUYAb4y1qx4iU38=
> > > =qmuz
> > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

[Tomas Zijdemans]

All good points (from a fellow Norwegian :)

On the other hand, appDB entries are (and probably always will be) user 
generated content, and users will always have different opinions (and 
environment setup).

IMHO users won't sue wine if the abbDB status differs from their 
experience with an app. It's regarded more of a pointer at this stage.

But, as more and more lovely testing code gets into wine, and if there's 
going to be a stable and unstable branch after 1.0 - things will look 
slightly different...

Tomas Zijdemans

Alexander Nicolaysen Sørnes wrote:
> The problem of using test results as background for this is that they are very 
> dependent on the experience of each user. For instance some might be unable 
> to run a game because they have execshield or other stuff that mess up Wine, 
> or simply because they are not following the how-to instructions.
>
> Take the Age of Empires II test report, for instance.  The user has rated it 
> Gold even though the text on the main menu is displayed black instead of 
> white (on a dark background), and the game is a bit slow even on a modern 
> computer.
>
> The alternative is to use the maintainer ratings, which are generally more 
> correct but updated far less frequently.
>
> Alexander N. Sørnes
>
> On Thursday 06 December 2007 00:02:36 Zachary Goldberg wrote:
> > I've finished coding a script which runs the necessary query to
> > generate data (I download a database backup and run the queries on my
> > local machine.).  As a sampling (if anybody feels like tripple
> > checking that the data is correct) of "Upgrades" (and some downgrades)
> > from 11-27-2007 to 12-04-2007:
> >
> > Chromadrome 2 - Demo 1.0 (18165)  went from Garbage (2007-11-25
> > 01:25:25) to Platinum (2007-12-02 11:50:43)
> > Age of Empires II The Age of Kings: 2.x (18083)  went from Silver
> > (2007-11-15 15:58:30) to Gold (2007-11-30 16:30:18)
> > Dreamweaver MX (18123)  went from Silver (2007-07-22 03:17:03) to
> > Garbage (2007-12-01 17:41:49)
> > Call of Duty United Offensive: 1.5 (18163)  went from Gold (2007-04-06
> > 07:46:23) to Platinum (2007-12-02 11:12:50)
> > Crysis Single player demo (18094)  went from Garbage (2007-11-06
> > 12:49:00) to Bronze (2007-12-01 03:25:13)
> > Eschalon Book I Demo Demo (18029)  went from Garbage (2007-11-22
> > 02:37:49) to Platinum (2007-11-29 03:11:20)
> > Gothic 1.0x (18154)  went from Bronze (2007-11-09 11:48:03) to Garbage
> > (2007-12-02 09:21:57)
> > Proteus 7.2 (18050)  went from Garbage (2007-11-18 07:08:51) to Silver
> > (2007-11-29 22:20:27)
> > Ys origin 1.1.0.0 - Adol Version (18060)  went from Bronze (2007-07-13
> > 00:20:48) to Silver (2007-11-30 01:38:14)
> > Mp3tag v2.39 (17994)  went from Platinum (2007-10-20 11:01:13) to Gold
> > (2007-11-27 15:44:51)
> > Crayon Release 1 (17988)  went from Gold (2007-11-17 13:34:11) to
> > Platinum (2007-11-27 11:30:05)
> > Silencer 1.10.1 (18087)  went from Silver (2007-11-16 15:04:45) to
> > Platinum (2007-11-30 17:22:00)
> > .NET Framework 2.0 (18042)  went from Garbage (2007-11-29 10:07:26) to
> > Platinum (2007-11-30 11:35:57)
> > Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six 3: Raven Shield 1.60 (18057)  went from
> > Garbage (2007-10-17 11:44:55) to Bronze (2007-11-29 21:43:19)
> > Safari 3.x Public Beta (18196)  went from Garbage (2007-11-21
> > 03:21:32) to Bronze (2007-12-03 10:03:37)
> > TTPlayer 5.0.1 (18191)  went from Silver (2007-11-07 05:24:39) to Gold
> > (2007-12-03 08:43:31)
> > Sid Meier's Civilization IV Civilization IV Beyond The Sword (3.13)
> > (18108)  went from Bronze (2007-11-07 06:34:47) to Silver (2007-12-01
> > 10:08:49)
> > Original War 1.08 (18041)  went from Garbage (2007-11-18 19:59:13) to
> > Bronze (2007-11-29 09:31:33)
> > Half-Life 2 Half-Life: Source (17993)  went from Garbage (2007-11-05
> > 14:08:10) to Platinum (2007-11-27 13:49:48)
> > Serif PhotoPlus PhotoPlus 11 (18201)  went from Garbage (2007-11-17
> > 17:02:33) to Gold (2007-12-03 12:40:39)
> > MapSource 6.11.5 (18021)  went from Silver (2007-10-17 05:19:10) to
> > Gold (2007-11-28 18:11:37)
> > Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare Demo (18143)  went from Garbage
> > (2007-11-16 11:59:30) to Silver (2007-12-02 06:40:04)
> > SimCity 4 1.1 638 Rush Hour (18148)  went from Gold (2007-11-25
> > 14:58:28) to Bronze (2007-12-02 07:40:50)
> >
> > On Dec 5, 2007 5:50 PM, Ben Hodgetts (Enverex)  wrote:
> > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > > Hash: SHA1
> > >
> > > Possibly, but on the other hand it could just as easily become "Garbage"
> > > in the next release of Wine ;)
> > >
> > > (sorry, I already sent this once at the start of the day but emailed it
> > > directly to the previous person rather than back to the list)
> > >
> > > Ben H.
> > >
> > > Tomas Zijdemans wrote:
> > > > This is great :)
> > > >
> > > > Would it be a good idea to include major news from the appDB?
> > > > Ex: "Photoshop cs2 has now reached Gold status"
> > > >
> > > > I think this would be very inspiring to users.
> > > >
> > > > Tomas
> > > >
> > > > Triton wrote:
> > > > > On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 18:23:10 -0500
> > > > >
> > > > > "Zachary Goldberg"  wrote:
> > > > > > Kai,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It was my pleasure :).  Keep the interesting wine discussion/news
> > > > > > coming and I'll keep writing WWNs.  I'll also make note to highlight
> > > > > > in particular GSoC developments as they happen.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --Zach
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi everyone, I've been following the mailing lists for some time now,
> > > > > this is my first post. OK, presentation done...
> > > > >
> > > > > I also had to thank you bring to life the WWN, it's a great resource
> > > > > for those who don't actively follow the development discussions.
> > >
> > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
> > >
> > > iD8DBQFHVytLuqCUopk11kIRAkesAJ9d/vngVV71xY/749SA8g5hkys4DgCfVEwh
> > > IlVnueogwUYAb4y1qx4iU38=
> > > =qmuz
> > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----