On Thursday 30 January 2003 10:44 am, Ove Kaaven wrote:
This one is sure to give Greg something to work with...
looks very interesting, indeed.
all of this was implemented in a bit of a hurry, but since it's based on my research, it should be a good starting point in understanding how Microsoft's NDR engine works. It doesn't properly implement marshalling alignment or memory sizing, may not handle a number of fringe cases, does not conform to the DCE RPC wire protocol (mostly because I don't have a description of it... where did you find it, Greg?), and probably needs some cleanup, but
I think, I had to sign away my firstborn to OpenGroup for it. If you feel like spending money /and/ signing away your firstborn, this looks like the definitive OpenGroup DCE package:
http://www.opengroup.org/products/publications/catalog/t151x.htm
and here is some free-as-in-beer RPC 1.1 stuff:
http://www.opengroup.org/products/publications/catalog/c706.htm
Where, exactly, I got what I have is a bit of a mystery to me :( It looks like it started its journey as postscript so perhaps it's part of the DCERPC source tarball? My old box is booted into the Operation Flashpoint Operating System... er... Windows, I mean... so I can't dig it out from my ext3 partition right now.
In your previous patch you mentioned the possibility of a merge situation between us. Indeed, this is probably the case, but it's minor. I've been real busy lately with work, and other non-wine things, so I haven't been forging ahead at my usual clip. There's not a whole lot floating around in my tree that hasn't gone out to wine-patches ATM.
-gmt
On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, Greg Turner wrote:
On Thursday 30 January 2003 10:44 am, Ove Kaaven wrote:
This one is sure to give Greg something to work with...
looks very interesting, indeed.
all of this was implemented in a bit of a hurry, but since it's based on my research, it should be a good starting point in understanding how Microsoft's NDR engine works. It doesn't properly implement marshalling alignment or memory sizing, may not handle a number of fringe cases, does not conform to the DCE RPC wire protocol (mostly because I don't have a description of it... where did you find it, Greg?), and probably needs some cleanup, but
I think, I had to sign away my firstborn to OpenGroup for it. If you feel like spending money /and/ signing away your firstborn, this looks like the definitive OpenGroup DCE package:
http://www.opengroup.org/products/publications/catalog/t151x.htm
I can't find any legalese there to the effect of signing away my firstborn, they seem to just want purchase details. Care to elaborate? (And is it still okay for me to code on Wine even if my firstborn can't?)
and here is some free-as-in-beer RPC 1.1 stuff:
http://www.opengroup.org/products/publications/catalog/c706.htm
And on there, they just want to borg the email addresses of every reader, but not their souls or firstborns, as far as I can see.
In your previous patch you mentioned the possibility of a merge situation between us. Indeed, this is probably the case, but it's minor. I've been real busy lately with work, and other non-wine things, so I haven't been forging ahead at my usual clip. There's not a whole lot floating around in my tree that hasn't gone out to wine-patches ATM.
OK.
On Friday 31 January 2003 02:22 am, Ove Kaaven wrote:
http://www.opengroup.org/products/publications/catalog/t151x.htm
I can't find any legalese there to the effect of signing away my firstborn, they seem to just want purchase details. Care to elaborate? (And is it still okay for me to code on Wine even if my firstborn can't?)
and here is some free-as-in-beer RPC 1.1 stuff:
http://www.opengroup.org/products/publications/catalog/c706.htm
And on there, they just want to borg the email addresses of every reader, but not their souls or firstborns, as far as I can see.
hehe, you are correct, they are more like, say, the Borland Community site than Rumplestiltskin.
Of course, I was kidding about signing away your firstborn, although you do at least sign away any redistribution rights by downloading the free stuff. AFAIK OpenGroup/DCE controls the RPC spec -- expecting consumers to sign an NDA or something would kind of defeat their stated purpose of enhancing interoperability.
There is one really significant open question left by their documentation: what is the gap between "MSRPC" and DCE RPC? I still can't decide whether this difference is just an API-level difference, or a full-blown wire-protocol incompatibility.... Luckily, we probably don't care too much -- ultimately, if we can make something that interoperates with Windows, we win, regardless of how well MS complied with the spec.
The other thing I can't stand about their spec is the rediculous protocol state diagram style they use. Could they have /possibly/ made it more confusing and obscure? (Surely, the answer is yes, but it's pretty darn confusing).
But, it helps. I shouldn't complain, considering what I paid for it. Combined with the pseudo-documentation of the format strings from MSDN, the Microsoft headers and MIDL output, the DCERPC source, tcpdump, etc., there's enough comprehensible clues out there to actually accomplish something -- it still feels pretty sparse to me, but I guess there's nothing I can do about that but forge ahead (or maybe shell out for the DCE package :) )
--gmt
On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, Gregory M. Turner wrote:
still feels pretty sparse to me, but I guess there's nothing I can do about that but forge ahead (or maybe shell out for the DCE package :) )
The DCE package is like $400USD. Not that bad. Maybe we can put some money togther (what about the Party Fund, that would be a good use of that money), and buy the DCE docs for the Wine project.
I contribute $40USD, if other contribute to make the 400.
Dimitrie O. Paun wrote:
On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, Gregory M. Turner wrote:
still feels pretty sparse to me, but I guess there's nothing I can do about that but forge ahead (or maybe shell out for the DCE package :) )
The DCE package is like $400USD. Not that bad. Maybe we can put some money togther (what about the Party Fund, that would be a good use of that money), and buy the DCE docs for the Wine project.
I contribute $40USD, if other contribute to make the 400.
I will contribute $50.00 I was going to put $50.00 into the fund anyway. And this seems to be a good time to do it .
Tom
On Saturday 01 February 2003 12:31 am, Tom Wickline wrote:
Dimitrie O. Paun wrote:
On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, Gregory M. Turner wrote:
still feels pretty sparse to me, but I guess there's nothing I can do about that but forge ahead (or maybe shell out for the DCE package :) )
The DCE package is like $400USD. Not that bad. Maybe we can put some money togther (what about the Party Fund, that would be a good use of that money), and buy the DCE docs for the Wine project.
I contribute $40USD, if other contribute to make the 400.
I will contribute $50.00 I was going to put $50.00 into the fund anyway. And this seems to be a good time to do it .
Tom
I'll put my $50 in virtual escrow with the rest. Anyone keeping track of this?
--gmt
On February 2, 2003 04:46 pm, Gregory M. Turner wrote:
I'll put my $50 in virtual escrow with the rest. Anyone keeping track of this?
Yes, I am. I've up'ed my contribution to the now standard 50USD, and we have a total of $200USD. I keep track of them on my main Wine page at: http://www.dssd.ca/wine/
Nick did not say how much he's willing to contribute, but we're past the 50% mark toward our goal, which is good. Come on guys, the easiest way to contribute is to give money, and we have real low expectations here: only $400USD to buy some documentation. Greg & Ove are doing the work, it's unfair to expect them to pay everything as well...
How to donate ?
Yes, I am. I've up'ed my contribution to the now standard 50USD, and we have a total of $200USD. I keep track of them on my main Wine page at: http://www.dssd.ca/wine/
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On February 2, 2003 06:52 pm, Sylvain Petreolle wrote:
How to donate ?
The question is how much, not how? :)
If you are in Europe, it's a bit difficult, but we'll think of something. For now, please let me know how much you're willing to donate.
--- "Dimitrie O. Paun" dpaun@rogers.com a écrit : > On February 2, 2003 06:52 pm, Sylvain Petreolle wrote:
How to donate ?
The question is how much, not how? :)
The answer to 'how much' will be $50 USD if the question 'how' gives a good answer :)
If you are in Europe, it's a bit difficult, but we'll think of something. For now, please let me know how much you're willing to donate.
Why would it be difficult ?
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fwiw,
I'm filing papers (on a personal basis ) in Minnesota to do business as 'The Wine Project', and I've opened a personal account with the name 'The Wine Project', and I'm a few days away from having a Paypal button all ready to go to accept donations.
You can thank Tom for this; he's the one that harangued me into it <grin>.
I think I've mostly held up in the past because we didn't have anything to spend money on. However, Tom has pointed out that we can use the money to fund travel for a Wineconf 2003, and this also sounds like a worthy cause.
Jer
On Sun, 2003-02-02 at 17:30, Dimitrie O. Paun wrote:
On February 2, 2003 04:46 pm, Gregory M. Turner wrote:
I'll put my $50 in virtual escrow with the rest. Anyone keeping track of this?
Yes, I am. I've up'ed my contribution to the now standard 50USD, and we have a total of $200USD. I keep track of them on my main Wine page at: http://www.dssd.ca/wine/
Nick did not say how much he's willing to contribute, but we're past the 50% mark toward our goal, which is good. Come on guys, the easiest way to contribute is to give money, and we have real low expectations here: only $400USD to buy some documentation. Greg & Ove are doing the work, it's unfair to expect them to pay everything as well...
-- Dimi.
Jeremy White wrote:
I'm filing papers (on a personal basis ) in Minnesota to do business as 'The Wine Project', and I've opened a personal account with the name 'The Wine Project', and I'm a few days away from having a Paypal button all ready to go to accept donations.
You can thank Tom for this; he's the one that harangued me into it <grin>.
I think I've mostly held up in the past because we didn't have anything to spend money on. However, Tom has pointed out that we can use the money to fund travel for a Wineconf 2003, and this also sounds like a worthy cause.
I'm good for $50 if you still need any for the standards doc.
BTW, you might consider applying for a grant from The Linux Fund. I have their credit card, and every time I buy groceries, TLF gets a little cut. http://linuxfund.org The Tux on the credit card gets comments fairly often, mostly "Cute!". - Dan
On February 3, 2003 01:58 am, Dan Kegel wrote:
I'm good for $50 if you still need any for the standards doc.
OK, you're up with $50 as well. With these $50 we can lower the burden on Nick to $100, if no one complains...
Jeremy White wrote:
fwiw,
I'm filing papers (on a personal basis ) in Minnesota to do business as 'The Wine Project', and I've opened a personal account with the name 'The Wine Project', and I'm a few days away from having a Paypal button all ready to go to accept donations.
:)
You can thank Tom for this; he's the one that harangued me into it <grin>.
And who said being a *pest* never pay's off ;)
I think I've mostly held up in the past because we didn't have anything to spend money on. However, Tom has pointed out that we can use the money to fund travel for a Wineconf 2003,
Yes! Now to be seriouse.. I think a yearly Wineconf is very important because it brings everyone together for a couple days and the developers of Wine can *discuss* future technology's. If you look over the last six months you will see that Wine has progressed at a very nice clip. I feel on a personal basis this is in part do to Winconf 2002. I don't know how the rest of you feel about this .. But I would like to change the name of the "Wine party fund" to the "Wine conference fund" the money in this fund would go toward travel/accomodations for developers. As there are at this time developers who are not employed by companies that use wine in commercial applications.
Dimi would be a good example here !!! This guy puts many hours of his life into *Wine* And as he has pointed out here on *THIS* list not for a single dime.............. why not pay him back a little by using some of this money on his travel or accomodations ? And this is only one example and im sure there are *many* others as well !!!
I should note that I was not present at Wineconf 2002 but I will be at 2003 at my expence and I will not ask or take any money from the wine (( conference)) fund.
So I would like to propose a vote to change the "party fund" to "conference fund".
Any objections ? If not I will be more than happy to send the patch :)
and this also sounds like a worthy cause.
We could also spend *some* of the money on docs if it comes down to it..... And im glad that none of the current "party" fund money had to go out on this as we stepped up to the cause and donated out of pocket for this.....
I will still give $50.00 more to the < ?? > = (( conference)) fund beside to this *DOC* fund anyone care to match me ?
Feedback, comments, flames more than welcome. lets hear them....... As Tony once told me " why be shy"
Tom
Jer
On February 3, 2003 03:56 am, Tom Wickline wrote:
So I would like to propose a vote to change the "party fund" to "conference fund".
It's an interesting suggestion, but I'd vote for taking any name out of the fund. We need to be able to collect funds, and have some discretion on how to use them. Maybe just a Wine support fund? This brings the question on who decides how to use the money, but we can find a way.
As for rasing money for a conference, this is a worthy goal, but I'm afraid we don't have enough people to raise significant cash. I do appreciate you're suggesting that I be a possible beneficiary, but I'd like to say I can support myself, others may be in greater need.
Just a fund will do (what about "The Wine Fund"?), the problem is not the name, it's the cash! :)
Just a fund will do (what about "The Wine Fund"?), the problem is not the name, it's the cash! :)
All the cash in the world does no go if there is no party <g>
Wineconf seemed to help get alot of people thinking on the same lines when we could hammer it out face 2 face. If we were going to do another WineConf we would need to plan way in advance so slackers like me could afford to save up. Maybe something planned 9 months or so in advance with the Wine * fund helping those who cant afford to go?
My 10cents(inflation) Steven
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and here is some free-as-in-beer RPC 1.1 stuff:
http://www.opengroup.org/products/publications/catalog/c706.htm
And on there, they just want to borg the email addresses of every reader, but not their souls or firstborns, as far as I can see.
When they set up this 'free' access to the documents it was rather a change of direction for (what was then) X/Open. After all they had a business model that assumed they would be making money from selling the books, rather than just taking money from the contributing companies and giving away a 'free' copy of each book to each company.
In any case they wanted a log of who was downloading stuff, but they said at the time that the email addresses wouldn't be used for other purposes. I've certainly never received junk mail from them.
I suspect the log (like the ones from anon ftp passwords) is of little use to anyone.
David
notice that the most common anonftp passwords are mozillauser@, IE4USER@ and joe@. what a useful log :)
In any case they wanted a log of who was downloading stuff, but they said at the time that the email addresses wouldn't be used for other purposes. I've certainly never received junk mail from them.
I suspect the log (like the ones from anon ftp passwords) is of little use to anyone.
===== Sylvain Petreolle spetreolle@users.sourceforge.net Fight against Spam ! http://www.euro.cauce.org/en/index.html ICQ #170597259
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-
Dan Kegel -
David Laight -
Dimitrie O. Paun -
Dimitrie O. Paun -
Greg Turner -
Gregory M. Turner
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Jeremy White -
Ove Kaaven -
Steven Edwards -
Sylvain Petreolle -
Tom Wickline