Hey, that's only an hour away, maybe I / Lei / Nigel can drop by.
But what's the "itchy /etc/hosts bug"? Is that http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7929 ? - Dan
On Tuesday 08 May 2007 05:34, Dan Kegel wrote:
Hey, that's only an hour away, maybe I / Lei / Nigel can drop by.
But what's the "itchy /etc/hosts bug"? Is that http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7929 ?
I would assume so. I don't know if telling them is going to fix anything, though. For new games, I hope they're not using gethostbyname(gethostname()) anyway. For the other issues that are hitting us with that bug, all seem to be valid winsock programming. I'd rather have someone talk to them about better overall wine compatibility.
Cheers, Kai
On 5/7/07, Kai Blin kai.blin@gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday 08 May 2007 05:34, Dan Kegel wrote:
Hey, that's only an hour away, maybe I / Lei / Nigel can drop by.
But what's the "itchy /etc/hosts bug"? Is that http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7929 ?
I would assume so. I don't know if telling them is going to fix anything, though. For new games, I hope they're not using gethostbyname(gethostname()) anyway. For the other issues that are hitting us with that bug, all seem to be valid winsock programming. I'd rather have someone talk to them about better overall wine compatibility.
Right, Diablo 2 does use gethostbyname in a bad way. But I think distros should just manage the /etc/hosts file better.
On 5/8/07, Jesse Allen the3dfxdude@gmail.com wrote:
On 5/7/07, Kai Blin kai.blin@gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday 08 May 2007 05:34, Dan Kegel wrote:
Hey, that's only an hour away, maybe I / Lei / Nigel can drop by.
But what's the "itchy /etc/hosts bug"? Is that http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7929 ?
I would assume so. I don't know if telling them is going to fix anything, though. For new games, I hope they're not using gethostbyname(gethostname()) anyway. For the other issues that are hitting us with that bug, all seem to be valid winsock programming. I'd rather have someone talk to them about better overall wine compatibility.
Right, Diablo 2 does use gethostbyname in a bad way. But I think distros should just manage the /etc/hosts file better.
I kinda tend to agree, but the question on their end would be something along the lines of "with most users using dynamic ip's, how do you propose that we link the hostname to the current ip?"
One idea would be to setup a cron job that checks ifconfig for the ip of ethx, and then changes /etc/hosts accordingly. But then how would you handle users that either a) dont have cron installed, or b) dont use an ethernet card (i.e. they use wireless, or are hooked to the cable modem via usb cable, or are using dialup).. Maybe inetd/xinetd need to be rewritten from the ground up? lol I dont think that will happen any time soon.
The best bet is for wine to work with what it has and build in support somehow for each scenario as we come to it.
On 5/8/07, Tom Spear speeddymon@gmail.com wrote:
On 5/8/07, Jesse Allen the3dfxdude@gmail.com wrote:
On 5/7/07, Kai Blin kai.blin@gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday 08 May 2007 05:34, Dan Kegel wrote:
Hey, that's only an hour away, maybe I / Lei / Nigel can drop by.
But what's the "itchy /etc/hosts bug"? Is that http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7929 ?
I would assume so. I don't know if telling them is going to fix anything, though. For new games, I hope they're not using gethostbyname(gethostname()) anyway. For the other issues that are hitting us with that bug, all seem to be valid winsock programming. I'd rather have someone talk to them about better overall wine compatibility.
Right, Diablo 2 does use gethostbyname in a bad way. But I think distros should just manage the /etc/hosts file better.
I kinda tend to agree, but the question on their end would be something along the lines of "with most users using dynamic ip's, how do you propose that we link the hostname to the current ip?"
One idea would be to setup a cron job that checks ifconfig for the ip of ethx, and then changes /etc/hosts accordingly. But then how would you handle users that either a) dont have cron installed, or b) dont use an ethernet card (i.e. they use wireless, or are hooked to the cable modem via usb cable, or are using dialup).. Maybe inetd/xinetd need to be rewritten from the ground up? lol I dont think that will happen any time soon.
The best bet is for wine to work with what it has and build in support somehow for each scenario as we come to it.
It can be done with the network configuration scripts, at boot, or when you change the configuration. You don't need to periodically scan using cron. (*Yes some connections change frequently, but you can still get it done right when the change occurs.) Since most users don't know what the /etc/hosts file is, the various distros need to be better at managing it. I don't know which ones do better. I use slackware I manage the file myself :D
On Tuesday 08 May 2007 19:27, Tom Spear wrote:
I kinda tend to agree, but the question on their end would be something along the lines of "with most users using dynamic ip's, how do you propose that we link the hostname to the current ip?"
Personally I don't know if I'd like to have that. I prefer the "least amount of surprise" approach.
One idea would be to setup a cron job that checks ifconfig for the ip of ethx, and then changes /etc/hosts accordingly. But then how would you handle users that either a) dont have cron installed, or b) dont use an ethernet card (i.e. they use wireless, or are hooked to the cable modem via usb cable, or are using dialup).. Maybe inetd/xinetd need to be rewritten from the ground up? lol I dont think that will happen any time soon.
I'm not quite sure how (x)inetd would come into play here, or what that would have to do with IP addresses. However, the solution chosen should not be dependent on the name of the interface.
The best bet is for wine to work with what it has and build in support somehow for each scenario as we come to it.
We're currently investigating a couple of possible solutions, Dylan seems to have a good idea using a registry setting. That might work until we can think of something better. Keep an eye out for comments on bug #7929.
On a sidenote, I don't really fancy people with no valuable input telling me how to write my code. Please, if you don't know what we're doing here, you're welcome to ask some questions and I'll be happy to explain my rationale, don't come and offer suggestions that are plain useless. No one will have any benefit from that.
Kai
On Tue, 2007-05-08 at 08:22 +0200, Kai Blin wrote:
On Tuesday 08 May 2007 05:34, Dan Kegel wrote:
Hey, that's only an hour away, maybe I / Lei / Nigel can drop by.
But what's the "itchy /etc/hosts bug"? Is that http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7929 ?
I would assume so. I don't know if telling them is going to fix anything, though. For new games, I hope they're not using gethostbyname(gethostname()) anyway. For the other issues that are hitting us with that bug, all seem to be valid winsock programming. I'd rather have someone talk to them about better overall wine compatibility.
Does anyone have statistics we can present about how many Wine users playing Blizzard games there are out there?
The closest thing I've ever seen was a steam-based hardware survey Valve released a couple of years ago. Even then, there were tens of thousands of Wine users playing Steam games. With Wine more popular now and World of Warcraft often working better than in Windows, it seems pretty reasonable that there would be even more Wine-based WoW players.
Perhaps we could ask Blizzard to just include a simple test for Wine's registry key in their software and then keep statistics on it.
Thanks, Scott Ritchie
On 5/10/07, Scott Ritchie scott@open-vote.org wrote:
Does anyone have statistics we can present about how many Wine users playing Blizzard games there are out there?
The closest thing I've ever seen was a steam-based hardware survey Valve released a couple of years ago. Even then, there were tens of thousands of Wine users playing Steam games. With Wine more popular now and World of Warcraft often working better than in Windows, it seems pretty reasonable that there would be even more Wine-based WoW players.
Perhaps we could ask Blizzard to just include a simple test for Wine's registry key in their software and then keep statistics on it.
I dont know about every other WoW player, but given Blizzard's history of phoning home with previous games, I dont know how comfortable I would be with even a check for a wine registry key that phones home every time I play WoW.
On Thu, 2007-05-10 at 12:05 -0500, Tom Spear wrote:
On 5/10/07, Scott Ritchie scott@open-vote.org wrote:
Does anyone have statistics we can present about how many Wine users playing Blizzard games there are out there?
The closest thing I've ever seen was a steam-based hardware survey Valve released a couple of years ago. Even then, there were tens of thousands of Wine users playing Steam games. With Wine more popular now and World of Warcraft often working better than in Windows, it seems pretty reasonable that there would be even more Wine-based WoW players.
Perhaps we could ask Blizzard to just include a simple test for Wine's registry key in their software and then keep statistics on it.
I dont know about every other WoW player, but given Blizzard's history of phoning home with previous games, I dont know how comfortable I would be with even a check for a wine registry key that phones home every time I play WoW.
If you're not comfortable with a Wine registry key being checked for, you definitely should not be playing WoW. The software already checks for a ton of far more personal data.
Thanks, Scott Rtichie
Torsdag 10 mai 2007 18:46, skrev Scott Ritchie:
On Tue, 2007-05-08 at 08:22 +0200, Kai Blin wrote:
On Tuesday 08 May 2007 05:34, Dan Kegel wrote:
Hey, that's only an hour away, maybe I / Lei / Nigel can drop by.
But what's the "itchy /etc/hosts bug"? Is that http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7929 ?
I would assume so. I don't know if telling them is going to fix anything, though. For new games, I hope they're not using gethostbyname(gethostname()) anyway. For the other issues that are hitting us with that bug, all seem to be valid winsock programming. I'd rather have someone talk to them about better overall wine compatibility.
Does anyone have statistics we can present about how many Wine users playing Blizzard games there are out there?
The closest thing I've ever seen was a steam-based hardware survey Valve released a couple of years ago. Even then, there were tens of thousands of Wine users playing Steam games. With Wine more popular now and World of Warcraft often working better than in Windows, it seems pretty reasonable that there would be even more Wine-based WoW players.
Perhaps we could ask Blizzard to just include a simple test for Wine's registry key in their software and then keep statistics on it.
Blizzard is at least co-operating with TransGaming on World of Warcraft, so they are at least aware that there are Linux users out there. :)
Perhaps someone could act as a representative for CodeWeavers? It might make Blizzard more attentive. I can try to get some info from TransGaming about the co-operation, if anyone thinks it would be useful.
Regards,
Alexander N. Sørnes
Thanks, Scott Ritchie
Blizzard is at least co-operating with TransGaming on World of Warcraft, so they are at least aware that there are Linux users out there. :)
Perhaps someone could act as a representative for CodeWeavers? It might make Blizzard more attentive. I can try to get some info from TransGaming about the co-operation, if anyone thinks it would be useful.
We have someone at Blizzard that at least responds to our emails, although I wouldn't characterize them as especially helpful.
However, to be honest, I'm not really aware of a lot of issues where we have a burning need for their help. My understanding is that it mostly works fairly well.
Stefan, is that not true? Do we need a lot from them?
Cheers,
Jeremy
Am Donnerstag 10 Mai 2007 19:13 schrieb Jeremy White:
Blizzard is at least co-operating with TransGaming on World of Warcraft, so they are at least aware that there are Linux users out there. :)
Perhaps someone could act as a representative for CodeWeavers? It might make Blizzard more attentive. I can try to get some info from TransGaming about the co-operation, if anyone thinks it would be useful.
We have someone at Blizzard that at least responds to our emails, although I wouldn't characterize them as especially helpful.
However, to be honest, I'm not really aware of a lot of issues where we have a burning need for their help. My understanding is that it mostly works fairly well.
Stefan, is that not true? Do we need a lot from them?
Nothing huge and important really. They seem to be testing their releases with wine too, some blizzard dev said something like that on the wow forums when asked about a bug in their beta releases.
Every now and then I stumble accross some things where I'd ask someone from Blizzard, but in all those cases I could find a solution myself, and most likely quicker than waiting for someone responding, making sure we talk about the same problem and then debugging the things.
One thing that would be valueable to us would be to know how the Warden(the anti-cheat system) works, but I don't think Blizzard would tell us. Having someone taking us seriously for sure would be a good thing should we run into a huge problem like a mass ban like Transgaming had, or an update breaking wow in Wine/Crossover completely.
The closest thing I've ever seen was a steam-based hardware survey Valve released a couple of years ago. Even then, there were tens of thousands of Wine users playing Steam games.
How did you see that? I'm always looking for "Direct3D HAL" 3D cards, but I never saw anything like that there. Though I always paritipate in the survey if steam asks me too to get a few more Direct3D HALs in :-)
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Alexander Nicolaysen Sørnes -
Dan Kegel -
Jeremy White -
Jesse Allen -
Kai Blin -
Scott Ritchie -
Stefan Dösinger -
Tom Spear