Re: po: Update Russian translation

[Francois Gouget]

This email is likely to get mangled but the gist of it will 
hopefully survive.
> -"Синтаксис:\tIF [NOT] EXIST файл команда\n"
> +"Синтаксис: IF [NOT] EXIST файл команда\n"
>  "IF [NOT] "строка1"=="строка2" команда\n"
>  "IF [NOT] ERRORLEVEL число команда\n"

I believe the last two lines should be indented.
> +"[/I]  Если конечный каталог отсутствует и копируется более одного файла,\n"
> +"местом назначения считается каталог.\n"

[...]
> +"[/A]  Копирует только файлы с атрибутом "архивный".\n"
> +"[/M]  Копирует только файлы с атрибутом "архивный",\n"
> +"при этом очищает атрибут.\n"
> +"[/D | /D:m-d-y] Копирует только новые файлы или файлы, измененные\n"
> +"после указанной даты. Если дата не указана, заменяет все старые файлы\n"
> +"существующими новыми.\n"

This one too could use some extra indentation where the description 
wraps to the next line. Also it is missing an extra trailing '\n'.
> #: wordpad.rc:174
>  msgid "inch"
>  msgstr "inch"

Based on your exchange with Nikolay Sivov it sounds like this could be 
translated.
> #: cmd.rc:291 xcopy.rc:40
> msgctxt "Yes key"
> msgid "Y"
> msgstr ""

[...same for 'No key'...]
> #: xcopy.rc:35
>  msgid "%s? (Yes|No)\n"
> -msgstr ""
> +msgstr "%s? (Yes (да)|No (нет))\n"

I believe this one is a bit ambiguous because it does not make it clear 
whether to type 'Yes' or 'да' (only the first character counts as the 
'Yes key' anyway). My understanding is that the two standard ways to 
deal with this are:

* "(Yes|No)" -> "(да|нет)" and "Y" -> "д"
   This is used for languages where typing the translated strings 
   presents no special challenge.

* "(Yes|No)" -> "(да (Y)|нет (N))" and "Y" -> "Y"
   If typing the translated strings is cumbersome for some reason (but 
   I guess it's not the case here).
   In truth this approach is mostly used for accelerators. I guess 
   that's because Alt cannot be combined with characters composed 
   through dead keys or special input methods, and also because it 
   avoids trouble with accelerator collisions in case two translations 
   start with the same letter (like if 'Yes' and 'No' both both 
   translated to words starting with 'C' for instance).

po: Update Russian translation

[Nikolay Sivov]

On 9/21/2011 12:39, Francois Gouget wrote:
> > #: wordpad.rc:174
> >   msgid "inch"
> >   msgstr "inch"
>
> Based on your exchange with Nikolay Sivov it sounds like this could be
> translated.

Right, I just pointed out that used translation is reserved for 
decimetre in Russian, but I doubt it'll
be much of confusion in this case because of dialogue function. Anyway I 
can't think of better one,
commonly used way to mark inch is seconds sign like - 1/72", but it's 
not acceptable here.
> #: xcopy.rc:35
>   msgid "%s? (Yes|No)\n"
> -msgstr ""
> +msgstr "%s? (Yes (да)|No (нет))\n"
> I believe this one is a bit ambiguous because it does not make it clear
> whether to type 'Yes' or 'да' (only the first character counts as the
> 'Yes key' anyway). My understanding is that the two standard ways to
> deal with this are:
> -
>
> "(Yes|No)" ->  "(да|нет)" and "Y" ->  "д"
> This is used for languages where typing the translated strings
> presents no special challenge.
> -
>
> "(Yes|No)" ->  "(да (Y)|нет (N))" and "Y" ->  "Y"
> If typing the translated strings is cumbersome for some reason (but
> I guess it's not the case here).
> In truth this approach is mostly used for accelerators. I guess
> that's because Alt cannot be combined with characters composed
> through dead keys or special input methods, and also because it
> avoids trouble with accelerator collisions in case two translations
> start with the same letter (like if 'Yes' and 'No' both both
> translated to words starting with 'C' for instance).

I don't know what we use for other languages but I prefer second way.

po: Update Russian translation

[Francois Gouget]

On Wed, 21 Sep 2011, Nikolay Sivov wrote:
[...]
> > -
> >
> > "(Yes|No)" ->  "(да|нет)" and "Y" ->  "д"
> > This is used for languages where typing the translated strings
> > presents no special challenge.
> > -
> >
> > "(Yes|No)" ->  "(да (Y)|нет (N))" and "Y" ->  "Y"
> > If typing the translated strings is cumbersome for some reason (but
> > I guess it's not the case here).
> > In truth this approach is mostly used for accelerators. I guess
> > that's because Alt cannot be combined with characters composed
> > through dead keys or special input methods, and also because it
> > avoids trouble with accelerator collisions in case two translations
> > start with the same letter (like if 'Yes' and 'No' both both
> > translated to words starting with 'C' for instance).
>
> I don't know what we use for other languages but I prefer second way.

They all went with the first way:

po/[e-mail]:msgid "%s? (Yes|No)\n"
po/[e-mail]-msgstr "%s? (Да|Не)\n"

po/da.po:msgid "%s? (Yes|No)\n"
po/da.po-msgstr "%s? (Ja|Nei)\n"

po/de.po:msgid "%s? (Yes|No)\n"
po/de.po-msgstr "%s? (Ja|Nein)\n"

po/fr.po:msgid "%s? (Yes|No)\n"
po/fr.po-msgstr "%s ? (Oui|Non)\n"

po/it.po:msgid "%s? (Yes|No)\n"
po/it.po-msgstr "%s? (Sì|No)\n"

po/ja.po:msgid "%s? (Yes|No)\n"
po/ja.po:msgstr "%s? (Yes|No)\n" !!!

po/ko.po:msgid "%s? (Yes|No)\n"
po/ko.po-msgstr "%s? (예|아니오)\n"

po/lt.po:msgid "%s? (Yes|No)\n"
po/lt.po-msgstr "%s? (Taip|Ne)\n"

po/nb_NO.po:msgid "%s? (Yes|No)\n"
po/nb_NO.po-msgstr "%s? (Ja|Nei)\n"

po/nl.po:msgid "%s? (Yes|No)\n"
po/nl.po-msgstr "%s? (Ja|Nee)\n"

po/pl.po:msgid "%s? (Yes|No)\n"
po/pl.po-msgstr "%s? (Tak|Nie)\n"

po/pt_BR.po:msgid "%s? (Yes|No)\n"
po/pt_BR.po-msgstr "%s? (Sim|Não)\n"

po/sl.po:msgid "%s? (Yes|No)\n"
po/sl.po-msgstr "%s? (Da|Ne)\n"

po/[e-mail]:msgid "%s? (Yes|No)\n"
po/[e-mail]-msgstr "%s? (Da|Ne)\n"

po/sv.po:msgid "%s? (Yes|No)\n"
po/sv.po-msgstr "%s? (Ja|Nej)\n"

po: Update Russian translation

[Alexander Lakhin]

I proposed such translation to replicate Windows xcopy behavior:
Заменить C:\xcacls.exe [Yes (да)/No (нет)/All (все)]?

IMO first way is not suitable for us (you have to input command with one 
keyboard layout (EN), and then switch to another (RU) just to answer the 
question).
And I am afraid that "(да (Y)|нет (N))" is ambigous too, but if you 
prefer this way, I will make such corrections.

I will add the indentation where you pointed, and if all the other my 
explications accepted, I'll make another patch.

Best regards,
Alexander

21.09.2011 13:47, Francois Gouget пишет:
> On Wed, 21 Sep 2011, Nikolay Sivov wrote:
> [...]
> > > -
> > >
> > > "(Yes|No)" ->   "(да|нет)" and "Y" ->   "д"
> > > This is used for languages where typing the translated strings
> > > presents no special challenge.
> > > -
> > >
> > > "(Yes|No)" ->   "(да (Y)|нет (N))" and "Y" ->   "Y"
> > > If typing the translated strings is cumbersome for some reason (but
> > > I guess it's not the case here).
> > > In truth this approach is mostly used for accelerators. I guess
> > > that's because Alt cannot be combined with characters composed
> > > through dead keys or special input methods, and also because it
> > > avoids trouble with accelerator collisions in case two translations
> > > start with the same letter (like if 'Yes' and 'No' both both
> > > translated to words starting with 'C' for instance).
> >
> > I don't know what we use for other languages but I prefer second way.
>
> They all went with the first way:
>
> po/[e-mail]:msgid "%s? (Yes|No)\n"
> po/[e-mail]-msgstr "%s? (Да|Не)\n"
>
> po/da.po:msgid "%s? (Yes|No)\n"
> po/da.po-msgstr "%s? (Ja|Nei)\n"
>
> po/de.po:msgid "%s? (Yes|No)\n"
> po/de.po-msgstr "%s? (Ja|Nein)\n"
>
> po/fr.po:msgid "%s? (Yes|No)\n"
> po/fr.po-msgstr "%s ? (Oui|Non)\n"
>
> po/it.po:msgid "%s? (Yes|No)\n"
> po/it.po-msgstr "%s? (Sì|No)\n"
>
> po/ja.po:msgid "%s? (Yes|No)\n"
> po/ja.po:msgstr "%s? (Yes|No)\n" !!!
>
> po/ko.po:msgid "%s? (Yes|No)\n"
> po/ko.po-msgstr "%s? (예|아니오)\n"
>
> po/lt.po:msgid "%s? (Yes|No)\n"
> po/lt.po-msgstr "%s? (Taip|Ne)\n"
>
> po/nb_NO.po:msgid "%s? (Yes|No)\n"
> po/nb_NO.po-msgstr "%s? (Ja|Nei)\n"
>
> po/nl.po:msgid "%s? (Yes|No)\n"
> po/nl.po-msgstr "%s? (Ja|Nee)\n"
>
> po/pl.po:msgid "%s? (Yes|No)\n"
> po/pl.po-msgstr "%s? (Tak|Nie)\n"
>
> po/pt_BR.po:msgid "%s? (Yes|No)\n"
> po/pt_BR.po-msgstr "%s? (Sim|Não)\n"
>
> po/sl.po:msgid "%s? (Yes|No)\n"
> po/sl.po-msgstr "%s? (Da|Ne)\n"
>
> po/[e-mail]:msgid "%s? (Yes|No)\n"
> po/[e-mail]-msgstr "%s? (Da|Ne)\n"
>
> po/sv.po:msgid "%s? (Yes|No)\n"
> po/sv.po-msgstr "%s? (Ja|Nej)\n"

po: Update Russian translation

[Francois Gouget]

On Wed, 21 Sep 2011, Alexander Lakhin wrote:
> I proposed such translation to replicate Windows xcopy behavior:
> Заменить C:\xcacls.exe [Yes (да)/No (нет)/All (все)]?
>
> IMO first way is not suitable for us (you have to input command with one
> keyboard layout (EN), and then switch to another (RU) just to answer the
> question).

That sounds like a good reason.
> And I am afraid that "(да (Y)|нет (N))" is ambigous too, but if you prefer
> this way, I will make such corrections.

It matches other examples we have in the PO files such as 
"项目符号(&B)", "削除(&R)"or "ਜਾਣਕਾਰੀ(&o)" so because it follows the 
same pattern it feels like it should be less ambiguous. But these are 
for accelerators so maybe the difference in context is important. Also 
it may be that the convention in Russian is just different. (I tried to 
check what Unix command line tools did but neither 'rm -i' nor 'cp -i' 
indicate how to say Yes/No :-( )

So I had to point out the potential issue but I'll happily defer to your 
judgement.