Now that Adobe Photoshop CS2 is running kind of well (there are bugs that need fixing, but I'm trying to look ahead a bit), what big app(s) are worth focusing on next?
Using http://wiki.winehq.org/LinuxApplicatonRequestSurvey, skipping Photoshop (which we should continue to fix up) and the ones that are either too hard, have native versions, or are probably something Codeweavers might already be doing, and adding in good old Framemaker (so close to working we might want to go for it just for the goodwill from all those tech writers), I think that leaves about seven big ticket apps, in rough order of popularity:
http://wiki.winehq.org/AdobeDreamweaver iTunes http://wiki.winehq.org/AdobeIllustrator http://wiki.winehq.org/AdobeFlash http://wiki.winehq.org/AdobePremiere http://wiki.winehq.org/AdobeAcrobatPro http://wiki.winehq.org/AdobeFramemaker
I've created wiki pages with trial download URLs for all but iTunes, and done a bunch of triage on them. Most of these could all use more triage and bugs filed. At some point the dust might settle, and it might become clearer which one(s) deserve to be focused on. I think Maarten is going to try iTunes, which would be great. - Dan
Quoting Dan Kegel dank@kegel.com:
Now that Adobe Photoshop CS2 is running kind of well (there are bugs that need fixing, but I'm trying to look ahead a bit), what big app(s) are worth focusing on next?
Using http://wiki.winehq.org/LinuxApplicatonRequestSurvey, skipping Photoshop (which we should continue to fix up) and the ones that are either too hard, have native versions, or are probably something Codeweavers might already be doing, and adding in good old Framemaker (so close to working we might want to go for it just for the goodwill from all those tech writers), I think that leaves about seven big ticket apps, in rough order of popularity:
http://wiki.winehq.org/AdobeDreamweaver iTunes http://wiki.winehq.org/AdobeIllustrator http://wiki.winehq.org/AdobeFlash http://wiki.winehq.org/AdobePremiere http://wiki.winehq.org/AdobeAcrobatPro http://wiki.winehq.org/AdobeFramemaker
I've created wiki pages with trial download URLs for all but iTunes, and done a bunch of triage on them. Most of these could all use more triage and bugs filed. At some point the dust might settle, and it might become clearer which one(s) deserve to be focused on. I think Maarten is going to try iTunes, which would be great.
AutoCAD, please
On Feb 17, 2008 11:57 AM, Pau Garcia i Quiles pgquiles@elpauer.org wrote:
AutoCAD, please
I spend a lot of time trying to get autocad (2004) to run on Wine. There where some small problems like registry things and with Internet Explorer dependencies, but those where easy to solve. The big problem is that the copy protection (and the anti-debugging tricks in it) run as a couple of windows drivers and do things that are far from "normal" in Windows. It is also very picky about almost everything, and does not generate any timely or useful error messages. (it just exits at the very end, without any clue about what went wrong.) Without the copy protection I'm sure autocad would run just fine with Wine. Newer autocad versions use .NET as well, which could be more complicated. (And no, "p2p" versions still have all the copy protection and anti-debugging tricks. )
Personally (as a programmer), I think my time would be better spend on many of the open-source CAD programs. (Or ask rhino3d very nicely if they want to make a Linux version. please. :-)
jaap.
CS3 photoshop, illustrator, flash, and aftereffects so I can drag my girlfriend to linux.
Thanks :D
(Sorry for the dupe Jaap, hit the wrong reply button.)
On Feb 17, 2008 10:07 PM, Jaap Stolk jwstolk@gmail.com wrote:
On Feb 17, 2008 11:57 AM, Pau Garcia i Quiles pgquiles@elpauer.org wrote:
AutoCAD, please
I spend a lot of time trying to get autocad (2004) to run on Wine. There where some small problems like registry things and with Internet Explorer dependencies, but those where easy to solve. The big problem is that the copy protection (and the anti-debugging tricks in it) run as a couple of windows drivers and do things that are far from "normal" in Windows. It is also very picky about almost everything, and does not generate any timely or useful error messages. (it just exits at the very end, without any clue about what went wrong.) Without the copy protection I'm sure autocad would run just fine with Wine. Newer autocad versions use .NET as well, which could be more complicated. (And no, "p2p" versions still have all the copy protection and anti-debugging tricks. )
Personally (as a programmer), I think my time would be better spend on many of the open-source CAD programs. (Or ask rhino3d very nicely if they want to make a Linux version. please. :-)
jaap.
Can I add here Corel Draw suite ? I've managed to start and work with Corel Draw 12 (with Wine Doors I add VB common controls) but after wine 0.9.45 Corel stop working.
Also Corel Draw is widely used in DTP industry.
Finally imagine AVID* working better and faster under WINE, ..stop I walk in a dream now, sorry for that ;)
Edward Savage wrote:
CS3 photoshop, illustrator, flash, and aftereffects so I can drag my girlfriend to linux.
Thanks :D
(Sorry for the dupe Jaap, hit the wrong reply button.)
On Feb 17, 2008 10:07 PM, Jaap Stolk <jwstolk@gmail.com mailto:jwstolk@gmail.com> wrote:
On Feb 17, 2008 11:57 AM, Pau Garcia i Quiles <pgquiles@elpauer.org <mailto:pgquiles@elpauer.org>> wrote: > > AutoCAD, please > I spend a lot of time trying to get autocad (2004) to run on Wine. There where some small problems like registry things and with Internet Explorer dependencies, but those where easy to solve. The big problem is that the copy protection (and the anti-debugging tricks in it) run as a couple of windows drivers and do things that are far from "normal" in Windows. It is also very picky about almost everything, and does not generate any timely or useful error messages. (it just exits at the very end, without any clue about what went wrong.) Without the copy protection I'm sure autocad would run just fine with Wine. Newer autocad versions use .NET as well, which could be more complicated. (And no, "p2p" versions still have all the copy protection and anti-debugging tricks. ) Personally (as a programmer), I think my time would be better spend on many of the open-source CAD programs. (Or ask rhino3d very nicely if they want to make a Linux version. please. :-) jaap.
Another major application that may be interesting to support is SolidWorks. http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=8983
Why ?
- It's one of the most popular CAD application for mechanical design and engineering, and surely the most used for educationnal purposes. Although the industrial version is quite expensive, thousands of $ or €, it is availiable for free for students in europe, and currently, it is the only app that may prevent them from switching from Windows to Linux.
- The Vista version is a pure disaster (or is vista the disaster ?), on a high-end notebook, it runs much slower than on a 4-years old low-end one with Win2K ! I saw many users really disappointed having to switch their brand new notebook back to XP, So there is a real "market" for linux/wine here !
- No MacOs version or alternatives.
- No opensource alternatives, and no linux native equivalents too ( Pro/E used to have a linux version, but i have no news about it )
Technically, most of the work seems to be done, i'm regularly testing it against new wine versions, and it mostly works, except 3 blocking bugs that prevent any real use. Unfortunately, it looks like there are no other apps impacted, as I saw no evolution for long months. :
+ installation just works out of the box, no tricks needed, so testing is really simple, as the downloadable version can be run without registration during one month.
+ The modeler, the parasolid kernel, works perfectly. Very big assemblies can be opened and modified, and all the functions works, except one.
- The most important function, extrude, is crashing, but it is related to the UI only, I guess. unfortunately, I wasn't able to find the problem. http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9545
- OpenGL child windows bug http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2398, or its cousin is still here, it was mostly solved by this patch http://www.winehq.org/pipermail/wine-devel/attachments/20070821/b0f56ecf/win... , but actual wine version is in regression.
- Can't save files, looks like some things are missing in storage implementation http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9396
- Big issues with flicker-free screen redraw, causing visual artifacts and huge bitmaps to be allocated ( surely sync issues, causing0 messages to be passed in bad order, with unallocated values) http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9561
On Sunday 17 February 2008, denis bonnenfant wrote:
Another major application that may be interesting to support is SolidWorks. http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=8983
Why ?
- It's one of the most popular CAD application for mechanical design and
engineering, and surely the most used for educationnal purposes. Although the industrial version is quite expensive, thousands of $ or €, it is availiable for free for students in europe, and currently, it is the only app that may prevent them from switching from Windows to Linux.
In similar vein I'd add Alibre Design, which provides almost the same functionality for 5-10x less money.
Cheers, Kuba
On Sunday February 17 2008 09:15:24 Dan Kegel wrote:
Now that Adobe Photoshop CS2 is running kind of well (there are bugs that need fixing, but I'm trying to look ahead a bit), what big app(s) are worth focusing on next?
Using http://wiki.winehq.org/LinuxApplicatonRequestSurvey, skipping Photoshop (which we should continue to fix up) and the ones that are either too hard, have native versions, or are probably something Codeweavers might already be doing, and adding in good old Framemaker (so close to working we might want to go for it just for the goodwill from all those tech writers), I think that leaves about seven big ticket apps, in rough order of popularity:
http://wiki.winehq.org/AdobeDreamweaver iTunes http://wiki.winehq.org/AdobeIllustrator http://wiki.winehq.org/AdobeFlash http://wiki.winehq.org/AdobePremiere http://wiki.winehq.org/AdobeAcrobatPro http://wiki.winehq.org/AdobeFramemaker
I've created wiki pages with trial download URLs for all but iTunes, and done a bunch of triage on them. Most of these could all use more triage and bugs filed. At some point the dust might settle, and it might become clearer which one(s) deserve to be focused on. I think Maarten is going to try iTunes, which would be great.
- Dan
What about support for Autodesk products (such as AutoCAD and 3ds max)? As far as I know there is two group of problems preventing them from working: copy-protection related and .NET related. This is true for most recent versions. However for not-so-new versions there is no .NET issues (just copy-protection problems). For example this is true for 3ds max 4, 5, 6, 7 (but I didn't check this personally). I heard that it is possible to get 3ds max 3 working on WINE but it's so old that this is useless today but it gives hope that newer versions of 3ds max will work if proper support for copy-protection used by Autodesk will be implemented. This is true for AutoCAD too (as far as I know AutoCAD and 3ds max are using same protection called C-Dilla). Unfortunately, I'm not an expert on this topic so I don't know how difficult to implement proper support for C-Dilla. But if it's implemented, it is very likely that both AutoCAD and 3ds max will work (as I said, because of .NET issues, most recent versions may not work but at least not so new versions will work; in future, when .NET support will be better, new versions will probably work too). In other words, proper support for C-Dilla is most important thing for AutoCAD and 3ds max support so it is possible to temporary ignore .NET bugs related to most recent Autodesk products for now. By the way, AutoCAD and 3ds max are very popular applications. It's easy to check how they are popular by using Google. For example, for AutoCAD alone you will get 43,800,000 results [1]. So there is a really a lot of people who depends on Autodesk products such as AutoCAD.
[1] http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=AutoCAD&btnG=Google+Search&...
* * *
(Everything below is just my personal experience as a person who depends on Autodesk products so you can skip it if you don't like such stories). Because of above problems many people (who depends on these applications) just forced to use Windows. In fact, I wasn't able to "convert" to Linux some of my friends because of AutoCAD being unsupported in Linux. For now, I'm stuck with VMWare. But it doesn't support DirectX or OpenGL so working with many projects is a pain (therefore it's difficult to call use of VMWare "Linux support for Autodesk products", even worse, use of VMWare not only means use of Windows but it also means BAD performance in even not very big projects) but I currently havn't other choices. I depend heavily on Linux applications/environment/daemons so dual-boot isn't an option for me - virtual machine in Linux host is the only choice. I really tired from bad performance and bad integration of the VMWare, I really hope that WINE will support Autodesk products someday... However, I use WINE for many other application such as Photoshop CS, AVR Studio, XnView and many others, so I'm really happy that WINE exists and I'm really thankful to all WINE developers. AutoCAD and 3ds max are two last programs that force me to use virtual machine with Windows...
On Feb 17, 2008 4:02 AM, L. Rahyen research@science.su wrote:
What about support for Autodesk products (such as AutoCAD and 3ds max)? Asfar as I know there is two group of problems preventing them from working: copy-protection related and .NET related. ... However for not-so-new versions there is no .NET issues (just copy-protection problems).... This is true for AutoCAD too (as far as I know AutoCAD and 3ds max are using same protection called C-Dilla).
Yeah, getting .net working would be great, and we seem to be making some progress there. And getting the copy protection used by these apps would be great. Googling around, I see that C-Dilla has sometimes been called Safecast, which is related to Safedisc, so I took the liberty of updating http://wiki.winehq.org/SafeDisc with a link to the Autocad 2000 bug, http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8466. That one looks like it's waiting for some action - James pointed out a simple-looking problem, but nobody's tackled it yet.
I'm torn between tackling hard problems and just going for the low-hanging fruit. I think the upshot is: I'm going to push hard on the low-hanging fruit, and let the hard problems sort themselves out in their own time, since pushing on them usually tends to involve a lot of wheel spinning. - Dan
By the way, AutoCAD and 3ds max are very popular applications. It's easy to
check how they are popular by using Google. For example, for AutoCAD alone
you will get 43,800,000 results [1]. So there is a really a lot of people who depends on Autodesk products such as AutoCAD.
So I think it's about time to get .Net 2.0 support into wine. Actually all the info is there in bugzilla to get a lot of .net applications running . I know .net support is not a target of wine-1.0.0, but why not reconsider? I got 3dmax 9 somehow running, but it seems to suffer from opengl bug; AutoCad 2008 only made it into the main screeen,then threw up a messagebox about a fatal error. So if someone could pick this up , and fix the remaining .net issues, i think wine could get another boost...........
Edward Savage wrote:
CS3 photoshop, illustrator, flash, and aftereffects so I can drag my girlfriend to linux.
OK, just for you I created http://wiki.winehq.org/AdobeAfterEffects with download links, etc.
There's one common bug stopping all CS3 installs, I think, but in my experience bugs in the earlier versions also show up in later versions, and the earlier versions have easier to work on.
So if you want us to work on After Effects, please start testing all the trial versions before CS3 and filing bugs. That will get the app ready for when we fix that common CS3 bug. - Dan
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Dan Kegel -
denis bonnenfant -
Edward Savage -
Jaap Stolk -
Kuba Ober -
L. Rahyen -
Louis Lenders -
Nemes Ioan Sorin -
Pau Garcia i Quiles