On 9/3/07, Stefan Dosinger wrote:
Am Montag, 3. September 2007 13:30:57 schrieb Damjan Jovanovic:
Somebody needs to make a do-nothing-useful app, intended for Windows, that also installs on wine and supplies each and every DLL that Windows applications need but we don't have in wine (like MFC42.DLL, the D3DX9_xx.DLL's, new MSVCRT's, etc.). That way we can legally use those DLLs without a Windows licence.
This is not necessarily true. I don't know about MFC42.dll or the msvcrts, but the directx eula does not allow that; It requires the application to run only on the Microsoft Windows operating system, targetting both Windows and Linux+Wine violates the contract. These are the conditions for distributing the directx dlls. I've not found anything against installing them on Wine, you just must not distribute the DLLs with an app that targets both Windows and Wine. Thus I think it's legal to write a script that downloads them from the original location @microsoft.com and installs them, as long as that script isn't bundled with the dlls. However, IANAL.
What remains unanswered though is how this affects game vendors whose games run on Wine without intention from the game vendor and ship the dlls, e.g. Eve Online.
Actually you all bring up rather interesting points with regards to Vector NTI as:
(a) It pretty much ships with almost every Microsoft redistributable needed (e.g., MDAC, Windows Script, MFC71, etc.) and installs them on its installation _except_ MFC42 (not sure why this oversight and if this would break it on some native system, although I _believe_ it installed correctly on my plain vanilla Win98 VMWare installation, but I would have to double check for sure).
(b) If the licenses for those DLLs/redistributables are the same as you suggest for DirectX, this would mean they couldn't ever say they support Wine (but I'm not sure whether or not the licenses are). Anyway, seeing it work "gold" on Wine still wouldn't be a bad thing in either case and certainly Vector NTI is not the only program that needs good winhelp support.
Misha
On 9/3/07, Misha Koshelev mk144210@bcm.edu wrote:
Actually you all bring up rather interesting points with regards to Vector NTI as:
(a) It pretty much ships with almost every Microsoft redistributable needed (e.g., MDAC, Windows Script, MFC71, etc.) and installs them on its installation _except_ MFC42 (not sure why this oversight and if this would break it on some native system, although I _believe_ it installed correctly on my plain vanilla Win98 VMWare installation, but I would have to double check for sure).
I think if these vendors are supplying programs that require these dlls and do not provide them, then I think the person who buys this program needs to take up the issue with the vendor. If I bought a program and did not get the dll and do not have it, I essentially have a dud, essentially since downloading the dlls is legally risky.
Jesse
On Mon, 2007-09-03 at 19:51 -0600, Jesse Allen wrote:
On 9/3/07, Misha Koshelev mk144210@bcm.edu wrote:
Actually you all bring up rather interesting points with regards to Vector NTI as:
(a) It pretty much ships with almost every Microsoft redistributable needed (e.g., MDAC, Windows Script, MFC71, etc.) and installs them on its installation _except_ MFC42 (not sure why this oversight and if this would break it on some native system, although I _believe_ it installed correctly on my plain vanilla Win98 VMWare installation, but I would have to double check for sure).
I think if these vendors are supplying programs that require these dlls and do not provide them, then I think the person who buys this program needs to take up the issue with the vendor. If I bought a program and did not get the dll and do not have it, I essentially have a dud, essentially since downloading the dlls is legally risky.
Jesse
Good point. In a way it seems kind of Microsoft's fault, since they are the ones who ultimately provide the Windows Script redistributable which requires MFC42.DLL but does not provide it (in fact, the accurate statement is that Windows Script redistributable installs "incorrectly" without MFC42.DLL; it does not give any errors and places all the correct DLLs in the right places, but does not write a bunch of registry keys like I believe Scriptable.Dictionary if I remember the name correctly and ends up failing on certain scripts).
As for Vector NTI, I think one of the reasons it is so popular is because it is free for academic/research use, so technically I didn't pay for it, but yes I agree with you completely that companies should provide necessary DLLs with their products. Additionally, I checked on my "plain vanilla Win98 install" and actually it was _VMWare Tools_ that provided MFC42.DLL... go figure :)
Misha
Tirsdag 04 september 2007 03:17, skrev Misha Koshelev:
On 9/3/07, Stefan Dosinger wrote:
Am Montag, 3. September 2007 13:30:57 schrieb Damjan Jovanovic:
Somebody needs to make a do-nothing-useful app, intended for Windows, that also installs on wine and supplies each and every DLL that Windows applications need but we don't have in wine (like MFC42.DLL, the D3DX9_xx.DLL's, new MSVCRT's, etc.). That way we can legally use those DLLs without a Windows licence.
This is not necessarily true. I don't know about MFC42.dll or the msvcrts, but the directx eula does not allow that; It requires the application to run only on the Microsoft Windows operating system, targetting both Windows and Linux+Wine violates the contract. These are the conditions for distributing the directx dlls. I've not found anything against installing them on Wine, you just must not distribute the DLLs with an app that targets both Windows and Wine. Thus I think it's legal to write a script that downloads them from the original location @microsoft.com and installs them, as long as that script isn't bundled with the dlls. However, IANAL.
What remains unanswered though is how this affects game vendors whose games run on Wine without intention from the game vendor and ship the dlls, e.g. Eve Online.
Actually you all bring up rather interesting points with regards to Vector NTI as:
(a) It pretty much ships with almost every Microsoft redistributable needed (e.g., MDAC, Windows Script, MFC71, etc.) and installs them on its installation _except_ MFC42 (not sure why this oversight and if this would break it on some native system, although I _believe_ it installed correctly on my plain vanilla Win98 VMWare installation, but I would have to double check for sure).
I believe mfc42 is bundled with Windows XP.
(b) If the licenses for those DLLs/redistributables are the same as you suggest for DirectX, this would mean they couldn't ever say they support Wine (but I'm not sure whether or not the licenses are). Anyway, seeing it work "gold" on Wine still wouldn't be a bad thing in either case and certainly Vector NTI is not the only program that needs good winhelp support.
Misha
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Alexander Nicolaysen Sørnes -
Jesse Allen -
Misha Koshelev