RFC - wine-macos mailing list

[Jeremy White]

Hi Folks,

I'd like to pull one thread out of a previous discussion
and ask for comments on it specifically; I think other issues
in the thread detracted from what I think is a useful discussion.

Specifically, should we create a 'wine-macos' mailing list?

I think the idea would be that it would be a mailing list
for Mac users and developers to worry about Mac specific issues.
The benefit is that it would be more inviting to Mac users
and it would allow Mac folks to hone in on Mac specific topics.

The goal is still that Mac Wine developers would come join us
on wine-devel and #winehackers, so it would likely end up
primarily as a user forum.  I guess the downside is that it
could be confusing, and you can argue that we
haven't created any platform specific lists prior to this.

My driving concern is that I think we need to welcome the Mac
community to the Wine Project and do all that we can to
enable the Mac developers and users to use mainstream Wine resources.
I don't think anyone wants www.winehq.org to be perceived as
a 'Linux only' environment.  (Although I do see that www.winehq.org
doesn't list Mac OS X...hmmm).

Some Mac folks have told me privately that having a Mac specific mailing
list on www.winehq.org would make it more inviting to them.
Perhaps that is reason alone to make the change.

What do others think?

Cheers,

Jeremy

[Darwine] RFC - wine-macos mailing list

[Mark F. Murphy]

At 5:05 PM -0500 6/1/06, Jeremy White wrote:
> Some Mac folks have told me privately that having a Mac specific mailing
> list on www.winehq.org would make it more inviting to them.
> Perhaps that is reason alone to make the change.
>
> What do others think?

+1

mark

[Darwine] RFC - wine-macos mailing list

[Raphael]

On Friday 02 June 2006 00:12, Mark F. Murphy wrote:
> At 5:05 PM -0500 6/1/06, Jeremy White wrote:
> > Some Mac folks have told me privately that having a Mac specific mailing
> > list on www.winehq.org would make it more inviting to them.
> > Perhaps that is reason alone to make the change.
> >
> > What do others think?
>
> +1

+1 too

Anyway i prefer people interested on having wined3d/opengl working over AGL 
(ie porting GLX code) on wine-devel list (or better in wine-d3d list) :)

Regards,
Raphael

[Kai Blin]

* Jeremy White  [01/06/06, 17:05:31]:
> Hi Folks,
>
> I'd like to pull one thread out of a previous discussion
> and ask for comments on it specifically; I think other issues
> in the thread detracted from what I think is a useful discussion.
>
> Specifically, should we create a 'wine-macos' mailing list?
>
> I think the idea would be that it would be a mailing list
> for Mac users and developers to worry about Mac specific issues.
> The benefit is that it would be more inviting to Mac users
> and it would allow Mac folks to hone in on Mac specific topics.

While I don't mind a seperate macos list, I'd prefer to see development
going on on wine-devel.
> The goal is still that Mac Wine developers would come join us
> on wine-devel and #winehackers, so it would likely end up
> primarily as a user forum.  I guess the downside is that it
> could be confusing, and you can argue that we
> haven't created any platform specific lists prior to this.

I would appreciate if we could get this working. I think MacOS
development is interesting, I'd like to see some discussions here.

Cheers,
Kai

[Brian Vincent]

On 6/1/06, Jeremy White  wrote:
> Specifically, should we create a 'wine-macos' mailing list?

I think the biggest concern here is that we've fragmented things
before and we know we suck at maintaining multiple lists/forums for
the same thing.  Examples - wine-users & c.e.m.wine newsgroup (now
fixed), third-party web forums & wine-users, wine-license stagnated
for years before we removed it, etc.

HOWEVER...

I say create wine-macos but remove darwine-devel - keeping it would be
too confusing.  User-level stuff can go to wine-macos and devel stuff
can go to wine-devel.

</$.02>

-Brian

[Jim White]

Brian Vincent wrote:
> HOWEVER...
>
> I say create wine-macos but remove darwine-devel - keeping it would be
> too confusing.  User-level stuff can go to wine-macos and devel stuff
> can go to wine-devel.

What? And make the millions of PowerPC Mac owners cry?  I don't think
so.

WineHQ has nothing to do with running Darwine (an
OpenDarwin.org/SourceForge.net project).

If you wanna join darwine-devel and suggest we close it, feel free.

Jim White

[Darwine] RFC - wine-macos mailing list

[Sylvain OBEGI]

Jim White wrote:
> Brian Vincent wrote:
> > HOWEVER...
> >
> > I say create wine-macos but remove darwine-devel - keeping it would be
> > too confusing.  User-level stuff can go to wine-macos and devel stuff
> > can go to wine-devel.
>
> What? And make the millions of PowerPC Mac owners cry?  I don't think
> so.

Come on, millions of PowerPC owners crying over the loss of a dev list 
dealing with something they never had? Get real! Nobody cares!
I've been on this list for 6 months, and I was following the website 
before that. The truth is, I don't think I've ever seen any actual 
improvement specific to PPC. If there is ever a x86->ppc translator 
included in (dar)wine, it will be done once the os x port is fully 
integrated into mainline (so no dev os x-specific list needed anymore) 
by an adventurous, (very) competent developer, so it will probably 
happen off the list anyway, leaving all the darwine-devel traffic for.. 
err, threads about merging lists?
OS X for PPC is a dead-end. It's much cheaper to buy a new x86 machine 
than code what's needed to perhaps get wine to work on it. As I said, 
maybe someone will do it for the technical challenge, but in any case, 
the list won't be of much use.
I personally prefer a separate list because wine-devel is too much 
traffic for me, as a user, but as the os x platform is getting closer to 
the Linux/x86 platform, and as the share of Wine users under OS X will 
rise probably very quickly, it doesn't make sense anymore to have a 
separate list (except maybe for the translator trick, but as there's no 
common effort to that, it's pointless).
> WineHQ has nothing to do with running Darwine (an
> OpenDarwin.org/SourceForge.net project).

Seems more like an ego problem than a technical point.
> If you wanna join darwine-devel and suggest we close it, feel free.
>
> Jim White

Just my humble opinion anyway, please feel free to disregard it.

[Darwine] RFC - wine-macos mailing list

[C.W. Betts]

If you could have it so that wine-macos is instantly sent to darwine-devel, and vice-versa.

[Joshua Root]

C.W. Betts wrote:
> If you could have it so that wine-macos is instantly sent to 
> darwine-devel, and vice-versa.

That seems rather redundant. Might as well just migrate all the 
darwine-devel subscribers over to wine-macos and discontinue the former, 
rather than have two lists with the same content.

- Josh

[Darwine] RFC - wine-macos mailing list

[Jim White]

Joshua Root wrote:
> C.W. Betts wrote:
> > If you could have it so that wine-macos is instantly sent to 
> > darwine-devel, and vice-versa.
>
> That seems rather redundant. Might as well just migrate all the 
> darwine-devel subscribers over to wine-macos and discontinue the former, 
> rather than have two lists with the same content.

I'll repeat myself, because the message still is getting missed.

The goal of the Darwine Project is to run Wine on *PowerPC* Mac OS X.

We know that is definitely *not* the goal of WineHQ because Wine Is Not
an Emulator.

The point of this wine-macos @ WineHQ discussion is because Alexandre &
Jeremy want Wine development work for *Intel* Mac OS X to be focused at
wine-devel, and I want darwine-devel to focus on Wine + QEMU development
work for *PowerPC* Mac OS X.

Jim White

[Darwine] RFC - wine-macos mailing list

[David Bialac]

That being the case, why not clear up the name?  Call
the list wine-ppc@WineHQ.  This makes clear it is for
the ppc version, not the Intel version.  The currently
proposed name makes me think that the project refers
to both Intel and PPC.

Dave

--- Jim White  wrote:
> Joshua Root wrote:
> > C.W. Betts wrote:
> > > If you could have it so that wine-macos is
>
> instantly sent to
> > > darwine-devel, and vice-versa.
> >
> > That seems rather redundant. Might as well just
>
> migrate all the
> > darwine-devel subscribers over to wine-macos and
>
> discontinue the former,
> > rather than have two lists with the same content.
>
> I'll repeat myself, because the message still is
> getting missed.
>
> The goal of the Darwine Project is to run Wine on
> *PowerPC* Mac OS X.
>
> We know that is definitely *not* the goal of WineHQ
> because Wine Is Not
> an Emulator.
>
> The point of this wine-macos @ WineHQ discussion is
> because Alexandre &
> Jeremy want Wine development work for *Intel* Mac OS
> X to be focused at
> wine-devel, and I want darwine-devel to focus on
> Wine + QEMU development
> work for *PowerPC* Mac OS X.
>
> Jim White
>
> Darwine-devel mailing list
> [e-mail]

https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/darwine-devel
>

--
David Bialac
[e-mail]

[Darwine] RFC - wine-macos mailing list

[Alexandre Julliard]

Jeremy White  writes:
> My driving concern is that I think we need to welcome the Mac
> community to the Wine Project and do all that we can to
> enable the Mac developers and users to use mainstream Wine resources.
> I don't think anyone wants www.winehq.org to be perceived as
> a 'Linux only' environment.  (Although I do see that www.winehq.org
> doesn't list Mac OS X...hmmm).

I think creating a separate list for Mac is only going to reinforce
that impression, which is just the opposite of what we want. Mac users
should be considered first-class citizens just like Linux users, and
we must make it clear that they are welcome on our standard mailing
lists. If at some point there's too much traffic on wine-users we can
split it, but we are not there yet.