I was wondering what is the relation of Wine to WineX? There is a CVS access to WineX, at least part of it, which is covered under the GPL. What I was wondering about is, wether this code is the same as wine or is it more advanced? Or is this code only the sutff which is also contained in Wine and all the other stuff is (more or less) closed, so that you can not use it for Wine. I was thinking about subscribing to WineX, at least a test for this three month account, to see if the games, I'm interested in, will work. But then I wonder what this would mean if I do some work for Wine. Is this a problem? Can Wine and WineX co-exist as an installation and for development? I know that I was not exactly busy for wine right now, but I try to get pICE in a state where it will be usefull for wine development, because this is my primary goal, but if this will be a problem after being subscribed to WineX I would rather not subscribe and stick with Wine instead.
On Wed, Nov 19, 2003 at 07:28:46PM +0100, Gerhard W. Gruber wrote:
I was wondering what is the relation of Wine to WineX? There is a CVS access to WineX, at least part of it, which is covered under the GPL.
From what I know, on some 'non-core business' DLLs, TransGaming took the
WineHQ tree after the license change and imported them into their own tree. So these DLLs (and only those) are covered under the LGPL.
This means also that if these DLLs are more advanced than the one in WineHQ, you can submit patches to merge them back into WineHQ's mainline.
I was thinking about subscribing to WineX, at least a test for this three month account, to see if the games, I'm interested in, will work.
Well, you could also help us debugging them on the plain WineHQ tree :-)
Lionel
On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:13:05 +0100, Lionel Ulmer lionel.ulmer@free.fr wrote:
From what I know, on some 'non-core business' DLLs, TransGaming took the WineHQ tree after the license change and imported them into their own tree. So these DLLs (and only those) are covered under the LGPL.
Ah. It was not absolutely clear to me from their website. I will ask them anyway to make sure what is permitted and what not.
This means also that if these DLLs are more advanced than the one in WineHQ, you can submit patches to merge them back into WineHQ's mainline.
ok.
I was thinking about subscribing to WineX, at least a test for this three month account, to see if the games, I'm interested in, will work.
Well, you could also help us debugging them on the plain WineHQ tree :-)
Yes. But for this I want a decent debugger, and that is why I work on pICE. :) I hope to get it so far as to make it usable for wine development. I tried to find a bug which causes Agent to crash under some circumstances, which I can reproduce everytime, but I didn't come to terms with winedbg and gdb, so I try to make this debugger usuable for this task. Quite a lot of work to do there. :)
Gerhard W Gruber wrote:
On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:13:05 +0100, Lionel Ulmer lionel.ulmer@free.fr wrote:
From what I know, on some 'non-core business' DLLs, TransGaming took the
WineHQ tree after the license change and imported them into their own tree. So these DLLs (and only those) are covered under the LGPL.
Ah. It was not absolutely clear to me from their website. I will ask them anyway to make sure what is permitted and what not.
Why not ask for a exhaustive list ? CC: me one when you get it :-)
Tom
On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:02:21 -0500, Tom twickline@skybest.com wrote:
Ah. It was not absolutely clear to me from their website. I will ask them anyway to make sure what is permitted and what not.
Why not ask for a exhaustive list ? CC: me one when you get it :-)
OK. Yesterday I sent mail to their support address but so far I got no answer. Don't know how long it takes for them to get back to me.
"Gerhard W. Gruber" sparhawk@gmx.at wrote:
Ah. It was not absolutely clear to me from their website. I will ask them anyway to make sure what is permitted and what not.
Why not ask for a exhaustive list ? CC: me one when you get it :-)
OK. Yesterday I sent mail to their support address but so far I got no answer. Don't know how long it takes for them to get back to me.
I don't think it's in their interests to provide an exhaustive list.
Anyway, were is a snippet of the LICENSE file at the root of the WineX tree:
"Source code and other software components explicitly identified as Copyright TransGaming Technologies Inc. is covered by the Aladdin Free Public Licese, (AFPL) the terms of which are listed below. In particular, redistribution of the following components in source or object code form is allowed only under the terms specified by the AFPL:
dlls/ddraw dlls/dsound dlls/dinput dlls/d3dgl dlls/d3d8 dlls/dinput8
This is not an exhaustive list. Other components that include TransGaming Technologies Copyright notices are also covered by the AFPL, with the exception of components covered under the GNU Lesser General Public License."
On November 20, 2003 11:51 am, Dmitry Timoshkov wrote:
I don't think it's in their interests to provide an exhaustive list.
Why not?
"Dimitrie O. Paun" dpaun@rogers.com wrote:
I don't think it's in their interests to provide an exhaustive list.
Why not?
1. Apparently their new policy directly prohibits contributing to WineHQ. 2. Taking into account #1 it's in their interests to keep AFPL borders fuzzy as much as possible.
All of this info can be found here: http://www.transgaming.com/license.php?source=1
The LGPLed components in the WineX tree are:
* dlls/avicap32/ (libavicap32.so) * dlls/msdmo/ (libmsdmo.so) * dlls/quartz/ (libquartz.so) * dlls/msacm/winemp3 (libwinemp3.so) * dlls/wininet (libwininet.so) * dlls/urlmon (liburlmon.so) * programs/regsvr32 (libregsvr32.so)
Take care, -Gav
Gavriel State wrote:
All of this info can be found here: http://www.transgaming.com/license.php?source=1
The LGPLed components in the WineX tree are:
* dlls/avicap32/ (libavicap32.so) * dlls/msdmo/ (libmsdmo.so) * dlls/quartz/ (libquartz.so) * dlls/msacm/winemp3 (libwinemp3.so) * dlls/wininet (libwininet.so) * dlls/urlmon (liburlmon.so) * programs/regsvr32 (libregsvr32.so)Take care, -Gav
Hello Gav,
So in other words these are the AFPL components.
# dlls/ddraw (libddraw.so) # dlls/dsound (libdsound.so) # dlls/dinput (libdinput.so) # dlls/d3dgl (libd3dgl.so) # dlls/d3d8 (libd3d8.so) # dlls/dinput8 (libdinput.so)
The LGPLed components in the WineX tree are:
* dlls/avicap32/ (libavicap32.so) * dlls/msdmo/ (libmsdmo.so) * dlls/quartz/ (libquartz.so) * dlls/msacm/winemp3 (libwinemp3.so) * dlls/wininet (libwininet.so) * dlls/urlmon (liburlmon.so) * programs/regsvr32 (libregsvr32.so)
So I take it everything else should be taken to be X11? If not can you please send a exhaustive list of AFPL components?
Tom
Tom wrote:
Hello Gav,
So in other words these are the AFPL components.
# dlls/ddraw (libddraw.so) # dlls/dsound (libdsound.so) # dlls/dinput (libdinput.so) # dlls/d3dgl (libd3dgl.so) # dlls/d3d8 (libd3d8.so) # dlls/dinput8 (libdinput.so)
So I take it everything else should be taken to be X11? If not can you please send a exhaustive list of AFPL components?
Hi Tom,
No, that's not the case - every line of code that we've added into the in the WineX tree that is not explicitly under the LGPL is distributed under the AFPL. Again, from our license documentation:
"This is not an exhaustive list. Other components that include portions Copyright TransGaming Technologies are also covered by the AFPL, with the exception of components covered under the GNU Lesser General Public License. Details on component that include portions Copyright TransGaming Technologies can be found via CVS access through http://www.transgaming.org"
We integrate code to and from the ReWind project (X11 licensed Wine) on a semi regular basis. When we contribute code to ReWind, those contributions can (and often have been) be integrated into WineHQ. We've made a number of significant contributions to ReWind, including things like our DCOM work, our DIB rasterization engine, our shared memory wineserver, etc.
Not all of these have made it into WineHQ - DCOM certainly has, and I know that at some point someone was working to integrate and finish the DIB rasterizer. We're expecting to do some more work on the ShmServer soon, and we'd love to work with anyone who wants to help improve that and get it into WineHQ. (Though Alexandre seems to have philosophical issues with it, so he'd have to be convinced that it would be ok as an optional feature).
Take care, -Gav
Gavriel State wrote:
Hi Tom,
No, that's not the case - every line of code that we've added into the in the WineX tree that is not explicitly under the LGPL is distributed under the AFPL. Again, from our license documentation:
Hi Gav,
I want to first off thank you for your reply.
I'm not sure if you read over this list or not, but if you should read over some of my past rants/flames you will see i'm not a very bright to start with..
So I ask for you to have patience with me.
From the above paragraph I see that every line of code you guy's have added to WineX that is *not* in the list of dll's/components that is listed under LGPL should be considered as AFPL?
The LGPLed components in the WineX tree are:
* dlls/avicap32/ (libavicap32.so) * dlls/msdmo/ (libmsdmo.so) * dlls/quartz/ (libquartz.so) * dlls/msacm/winemp3 (libwinemp3.so) * dlls/wininet (libwininet.so) * dlls/urlmon (liburlmon.so) * programs/regsvr32 (libregsvr32.so)
Here is where i'm a bit fuzzy.
You guys dont release any of your code under X11? but you do or in the past have ask people to licence there code under the X11 licence? Even tho I was not around when the licence change came to be.. From what I get from reading WWN and the devel-list list archives you guys were in favor of a X11 licence. ( ?? ) But now you say every line of code you release to wineX that is not explicitly under the LGPL is distributed under the AFPL licence? ........
So you ask people to licenece there work under X11 but you then re-licence your changes as AFPL?
In other words if I release my code ... ( well my code is only ugly hacks :-) ) but if I licence my code under LGPL then someone else releases under X11 then I release under LGPL then the code is in a mangle under both licences???????
So in return if I release under X11 then *YOU* release under AFPL then say I release under X11 again then you do another AFPL then its in a mangled state as well?
tit for tat ??
If this is the case as I see it......... I could be wrong,,, as im most likely at the lower end of the scale here......
Why should we even take the X11 licence into consideration? As I see it you will moot it at the first given chance ........ Just as i'm sure you think some developers will moot the X11 licence at there first given chance.......
So why not just licence WineX under LGPL and AFPL and have this mess over with??? <>please reply here</>
Then you can have a exhaustive list ...........this is this, and that is that!!!!!
Gav, I want you to know I have *NO* ill will against you or your cause. And I see your position here.. you want to be compensated for your work.. Trust me we all do!!!!!! But your not alone....... As I see it your no worse off than CodeWeavers ..... Hell take a look at : http://www.frankscorner.org/
If you look at the forums ( http://www.frankscorner.org/forum/ ) section you will see im a moderator there. But we tell the public they can install/run most if not all the apps that CW supports!!! So if anything your at a advantage to codeweavers when it comes to a app per game ratio ..... Because we list TG on most games.. And you still have your Copy Protection code in house......
So first,, as a proud Linux user!
I ask that you reconsider and release your code, changes, modifications ... what ever you may consider it.......... under a X11, LGPL licence and that you give a list of dll's, componentes that are listed as being LGPL, X11...
--
I'm almost certen if you guy's said Hey....... we want to be paid.. we have famailies to feed, we want to pay our bills the same way you want to!!!!!! So here is a list of DX dlls that were going to list as being AFPL..............
But in the sence of GoodWill and Hospitality we plan to release all other dll's/components as LGPL/X11 for not only our selves but for the betterment of Linux as a whole.....
You see Gav, I coul'd give *SHIT* about Wine or WineX as a single app.. Me myself I look to the future...... when Linux is the Desktop of choice....
I think Wine/WineX/CodeWeavers all three have a role to play in the Linux Desktop. Its not that im pregiduse, as I hate eveyone the same!!!
I just think if you were to list the licence of each dll's/component and say, here is where we at TG stand...... And we dont expect everyone will fill the way we do but this but this is life.. Life is a toatle of good and bad and we feel as if we have meet our overall obligations. why should there be any *ILL* feelings??????
So I ask again if you will send a list of AFPL, LGPL componets, and any componets under X11?
I hate to say this but I really beleive were at the piont to where we are at a toatle split.. I really hope it doesn't go this way......(I really do)........... So GAV in the end I guess its up to you.......
Please Reply
Tom Wickline
Hi Gav,
May I ask that you do not reply to my previous e-mail on this subject.
Regards,
Tom
On November 20, 2003 11:30 am, Gerhard W. Gruber wrote:
Fast application launcher - http://sourceforge.net/projects/launchmenu
BTW Gerhard, is this one building as a Winelib app? If so, does it do it out of the box?
-
Dimitrie O. Paun -
Dmitry Timoshkov -
Gavriel State -
Gerhard W. Gruber -
Lionel Ulmer -
Tom