Re: [PATCH] Environment variable to specify X11 window for desktop

[Robert Shearman]

Timothy Lee wrote:
> The attached patch allows the WINE desktop to be embedded within an 
> existing X11 window, and is similar to the windowed mode in WINE.
>
> I've tested this feature using MS PowerPoint Viewer 2007, so that a 
> fullscreen slideshow can be fitted inside any X11 window.

I'm struggling to imagine a case where the behaviour you've implemented 
is useful.

[PATCH] Environment variable to specify X11 window for desktop

[Steven Edwards]

On Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 10:46 AM, Robert Shearman  wrote:
> Timothy Lee wrote:
> > The attached patch allows the WINE desktop to be embedded within an
> > existing X11 window, and is similar to the windowed mode in WINE.
> >
> > I've tested this feature using MS PowerPoint Viewer 2007, so that a
> > fullscreen slideshow can be fitted inside any X11 window.
>
> I'm struggling to imagine a case where the behaviour you've implemented
>  is useful.

Perhaps something like a plugin window like the crossover plugin in
the browsers? I can think of  a couple of other usage cases where this
could come in handy.

[PATCH] Environment variable to specify X11 window for desktop

[Timothy Lee]

Robert Shearman wrote:
> Timothy Lee wrote:
> > The attached patch allows the WINE desktop to be embedded within an 
> > existing X11 window, and is similar to the windowed mode in WINE.
> >
> > I've tested this feature using MS PowerPoint Viewer 2007, so that a 
> > fullscreen slideshow can be fitted inside any X11 window.
>
> I'm struggling to imagine a case where the behaviour you've 
> implemented is useful.

I'm actually using this code as the basis of a PowerPoint plugin under 
Linux.

Regards,
Timothy

[PATCH] Environment variable to specify X11 window for desktop

[Dmitry Timoshkov]

"Timothy Lee"  wrote:
> > I'm struggling to imagine a case where the behaviour you've 
> > implemented is useful.
>
> I'm actually using this code as the basis of a PowerPoint plugin under 
> Linux.

I little bit more information won't hurt. For instance why your plugin
needs to re-route the whole desktop window, and not just its own one.

[PATCH] Environment variable to specify X11 window for desktop

[Timothy Lee]

Dear Dmitry,

Dmitry Timoshkov wrote:
> > > I'm struggling to imagine a case where the behaviour you've 
> > > implemented is useful.
> >
> > I'm actually using this code as the basis of a PowerPoint plugin 
> > under Linux.
>
> I little bit more information won't hurt. For instance why your plugin
> needs to re-route the whole desktop window, and not just its own one.

The patch was used in a browser plugin that uses PowerPoint Viewer 
(97/2003/2007) and WINE to display PowerPoint slideshows.  While 
developing the plugin, I've found that PowerPoint Viewer always playback 
slides inside a window that covers the whole desktop.  Hence the idea 
was born to embed the desktop inside a native X11 window.

I thought this patch might be useful to others with similar 
requirements, namely, to embed full-screen win32 applications inside a 
native X11 window.

Regards,
Timothy Lee

[PATCH] Environment variable to specify X11 window for desktop

[Dmitry Timoshkov]

"Timothy Lee"  wrote:
> > > > I'm struggling to imagine a case where the behaviour you've 
> > > > implemented is useful.
> > >
> > > I'm actually using this code as the basis of a PowerPoint plugin 
> > > under Linux.
> >
> > I little bit more information won't hurt. For instance why your plugin
> > needs to re-route the whole desktop window, and not just its own one.
>
> The patch was used in a browser plugin that uses PowerPoint Viewer 
> (97/2003/2007) and WINE to display PowerPoint slideshows.

It's still now clear to me what kind of plugin it is, and what it is
doing. You call it once "a PowerPoint plugin", and next time "a browser
plugin".
> While 
> developing the plugin, I've found that PowerPoint Viewer always playback 
> slides inside a window that covers the whole desktop.  Hence the idea 
> was born to embed the desktop inside a native X11 window.

An application plugin usually has access to the application internals in
some fashion, so I don't understand how that idea jumped from an application
window (where the plugin lives) to the whole desktop window (a separate
process).
> I thought this patch might be useful to others with similar 
> requirements, namely, to embed full-screen win32 applications inside a 
> native X11 window.

That kind of hack has nothing to do with Wine desktop window if what it
targets is just an application window.

[PATCH] Environment variable to specify X11 window for desktop

[Timothy Lee]

Dear Dmitry,

Dmitry Timoshkov wrote:
> "Timothy Lee"  wrote:
> > > > > I'm struggling to imagine a case where the behaviour you've 
> > > > > implemented is useful.
> > > >
> > > > I'm actually using this code as the basis of a PowerPoint plugin 
> > > > under Linux.
> > >
> > > I little bit more information won't hurt. For instance why your plugin
> > > needs to re-route the whole desktop window, and not just its own one.
> >
> > The patch was used in a browser plugin that uses PowerPoint Viewer 
> > (97/2003/2007) and WINE to display PowerPoint slideshows.
>
> It's still now clear to me what kind of plugin it is, and what it is
> doing. You call it once "a PowerPoint plugin", and next time "a browser
> plugin".

It's a PowerPoint plugin for Mozilla-based browsers, which can be used 
to embed a PowerPoint slideshow inside a web page.  So yes, both 
references were valid (though, as you have indicated, no crystal clear).
> > While developing the plugin, I've found that PowerPoint Viewer always 
> > playback slides inside a window that covers the whole desktop.  Hence 
> > the idea was born to embed the desktop inside a native X11 window.
>
> An application plugin usually has access to the application internals in
> some fashion, so I don't understand how that idea jumped from an 
> application
> window (where the plugin lives) to the whole desktop window (a separate
> process).

No, I don't have the "internal" of the PowerPoint Viewer, as it's 
written by Microsoft.  However, the plugin code does know about the X11 
window supplied by the browser for embedding purpose, and this is passed 
via the newly defined environmental variable to Wine.
> > I thought this patch might be useful to others with similar 
> > requirements, namely, to embed full-screen win32 applications inside 
> > a native X11 window.
>
> That kind of hack has nothing to do with Wine desktop window if what it
> targets is just an application window.

Um.  How about if the scope of the patch is repharsed as "embedding the 
Wine desktop inside an X11 window"?

Regards,
Timothy

[PATCH] Environment variable to specify X11 window for desktop

[Dmitry Timoshkov]

"Timothy Lee"  wrote:
> > That kind of hack has nothing to do with Wine desktop window if what it
> > targets is just an application window.
>
> Um.  How about if the scope of the patch is repharsed as "embedding the 
> Wine desktop inside an X11 window"?

Perhaps the most easy way for you to accomplish this would be write a
replacement for Wine's explorer. Have a look at programs/explorer/desktop.c
for ideas.

[PATCH] Environment variable to specify X11 window for desktop

[Timothy Lee]

Dmitry Timoshkov wrote:
> "Timothy Lee"  wrote:
> > > That kind of hack has nothing to do with Wine desktop window if what it
> > > targets is just an application window.
> >
> > Um.  How about if the scope of the patch is repharsed as "embedding 
> > the Wine desktop inside an X11 window"?
>
> Perhaps the most easy way for you to accomplish this would be write a
> replacement for Wine's explorer. Have a look at 
> programs/explorer/desktop.c
> for ideas.

Thanks for the tip.  Will checkout the source code.

Regards,
Timothy

[PATCH] Environment variable to specify X11 window for desktop

[Roderick Colenbrander]

Hi,

I'm just bumping into this discussion. From what I read the reason you need such functionality is for a mozilla powerpoint plugin. Have you figured out how this embedding is done on Windows? I don't know much about it but I think embedding works using COM and perhaps almost the same as e.g. Flash.

For example codeweavers has a plugin to embed IE plugins in mozilla, the same for the KDE reaktivate project which did something similar for Konqueror (although it can be used on mozilla too as they put it all in a library). Likely IE plugins work differently but I think the same embedding mechanism could be used, so you won't need such an X11 hack.

Regards,
Roderick

[PATCH] Environment variable to specify X11 window for desktop

[Timothy Lee]

Dear Roderick,

Roderick Colenbrander wrote:
> I'm just bumping into this discussion. From what I read the reason you need such functionality is for a mozilla powerpoint plugin. Have you figured out how this embedding is done on Windows? I don't know much about it but I think embedding works using COM and perhaps almost the same as e.g. Flash.
>
> For example codeweavers has a plugin to embed IE plugins in mozilla, the same for the KDE reaktivate project which did something similar for Konqueror (although it can be used on mozilla too as they put it all in a library). Likely IE plugins work differently but I think the same embedding mechanism could be used, so you won't need such an X11 hack.

I've been doing some research on this during the development of my 
plugin, and came across the info on http://pptfaq.com/FAQ00153.htm, 
which mentioned that ActiveX support on PowerPoint Viewer 2003 and 2007 
were removed on purpose.  The only way to embed using COM objects is to 
install the full suite of MS Office.

Another possibility to embed PowerPoint under Windows is to make use of 
system hooks, which can intercept the creation of the slideshow window.  
I believe it could be done this way, but have not investigated further.

Regards,
Timothy

[PATCH] Environment variable to specify X11 window for desktop

[Steven Edwards]

On 2/17/08, Dmitry Timoshkov  wrote:
> "Timothy Lee"  wrote:
> > > That kind of hack has nothing to do with Wine desktop window if what it
> > > targets is just an application window.
> >
> > Um.  How about if the scope of the patch is repharsed as "embedding the
> > Wine desktop inside an X11 window"?
>
> Perhaps the most easy way for you to accomplish this would be write a
> replacement for Wine's explorer. Have a look at programs/explorer/desktop.c
> for ideas.

As detlef pointed out about the screensavers, there does seem to be a
few valid cases for this. Maybe support for embedding could be put
inside of the existing explorer? I'd like to add support for Windows
screensavers. A while back I submitted a patch that needs some rework
for xdg-screensavers but I expect users will want to also be able to
use the native ones.

[PATCH] Environment variable to specify X11 window for desktop

[Dmitry Timoshkov]

"Steven Edwards"  wrote:
> As detlef pointed out about the screensavers, there does seem to be a
> few valid cases for this. Maybe support for embedding could be put
> inside of the existing explorer? I'd like to add support for Windows
> screensavers. A while back I submitted a patch that needs some rework
> for xdg-screensavers but I expect users will want to also be able to
> use the native ones.

Windows screen-savers already support drawing in a window without
external ugly hacks.

[PATCH] Environment variable to specify X11 window for desktop

[Detlef Riekenberg]

On Fr, 2008-02-15 at 15:46 +0000, Robert Shearman wrote:
> Timothy Lee wrote:
> > The attached patch allows the WINE desktop to be embedded within an 
> > existing X11 window, and is similar to the windowed mode in WINE.
> I'm struggling to imagine a case where the behaviour you've implemented 
> is useful.

With XSCREENSAVER_WINDOW as the Environment Variable:
http://wiki.winehq.org/ScreenSavers