Hi, i just instaled wine 0.9.25 (i had 0.9.24) and it is full of regressions, why is this possible, why is not there someone who can test wine before it came out to new release?
1. 3DMark 2003 - cant open setigns menu 2. 3DMark 2003 - with GLSL, almost all working test are broken (bad graphic) 3. 3DMark 2003 - with ARB is about 25% slower 4. HL2 Episode One - Some characters are black 5. NFS: MW - with ARB it is slower 6. W3 - cannot run, because of Opengl init 7. W3 FT - same as W3 8. nVidiaSDK - opengl demos in nVidia are not working anymore 9. nVidiaSDK - some Direct3D demos are broken more than in release 0.9.24 9. Prey - not working
This is pretty big list, almost half of my apps are not working, or working worst than before, it is sad.
Mirek Slugen
Mirek wrote:
Hi, i just instaled wine 0.9.25 (i had 0.9.24) and it is full of regressions, why is this possible, why is not there someone who can test wine before it came out to new release?
- 3DMark 2003 - cant open setigns menu
- 3DMark 2003 - with GLSL, almost all working test are broken (bad
graphic) 3. 3DMark 2003 - with ARB is about 25% slower 4. HL2 Episode One - Some characters are black 5. NFS: MW - with ARB it is slower 6. W3 - cannot run, because of Opengl init 7. W3 FT - same as W3 8. nVidiaSDK - opengl demos in nVidia are not working anymore 9. nVidiaSDK - some Direct3D demos are broken more than in release 0.9.24 9. Prey - not working
This is pretty big list, almost half of my apps are not working, or working worst than before, it is sad.
Mirek Slugen
Wine is still beta software, it has never been officially released, therefore you have to expect these sorts of things.
Aaron Slunt wrote:
Wine is still beta software, it has never been officially released, therefore you have to expect these sorts of things.
I think that misses the point. Users expect software to improve between releases, not totally break. It's pretty obvious that there is no one checking to make sure common apps work before rolling the release tarballs. Granted, sometimes it's necessary for parts of wine to be totally restructured in order to do things correctly and avoiding regressions in this case is unavoidable, but as far as I'm aware from lurking on wine-patches there weren't any great restructurings of how OpenGL worked in 0.9.25. To be honest it doesn't feel like there has been a significant move towards preventing regressions since 0.9.0, which I thought was the point of that release, although I may misunderstand.
Why would it be so difficult to have someone to pick a couple of common apps, like winzip, word, and warcraft3, and make sure they still function before every release?
On 11/12/06, Joseph Garvin k04jg02@kzoo.edu wrote:
Aaron Slunt wrote:
Wine is still beta software, it has never been officially released, therefore you have to expect these sorts of things.
I think that misses the point. Users expect software to improve between releases, not totally break. It's pretty obvious that there is no one checking to make sure common apps work before rolling the release tarballs. Granted, sometimes it's necessary for parts of wine to be totally restructured in order to do things correctly and avoiding regressions in this case is unavoidable, but as far as I'm aware from lurking on wine-patches there weren't any great restructurings of how OpenGL worked in 0.9.25. To be honest it doesn't feel like there has been a significant move towards preventing regressions since 0.9.0, which I thought was the point of that release, although I may misunderstand.
Why would it be so difficult to have someone to pick a couple of common apps, like winzip, word, and warcraft3, and make sure they still function before every release?
I don't see the point in this. It's not officially released software, so why put resources in to test apps on non-official software?
If something breaks in the latest release, go back to the one before that that was working, and file a bug in bugzilla about the regressions.
If there isn't a problem, then properly testing beta software will just waste time. If there is a problem, then bugzilla is just as effective as testing.
Joseph Garvin schrieb:
Aaron Slunt wrote:
Wine is still beta software, it has never been officially released, therefore you have to expect these sorts of things.
I think that misses the point. Users expect software to improve between releases, not totally break. It's pretty obvious that there is no one checking to make sure common apps work before rolling the release tarballs. Granted, sometimes it's necessary for parts of wine to be totally restructured in order to do things correctly and avoiding regressions in this case is unavoidable, but as far as I'm aware from lurking on wine-patches there weren't any great restructurings of how OpenGL worked in 0.9.25. To be honest it doesn't feel like there has been a significant move towards preventing regressions since 0.9.0, which I thought was the point of that release, although I may misunderstand.
Why would it be so difficult to have someone to pick a couple of common apps, like winzip, word, and warcraft3, and make sure they still function before every release?
I think you shouldn't see 0.9.{1...25} as "real releases" but more as regular development snapshots of the code to help getting it tested by more people. There is (as far as i can tell) no extra testing before a release or holding it back due to known regressions.
In that sense the last "real release" (with feature freeze, concentrating on bugfixes, etc) was 0.9.
On 11/12/06, Joseph Garvin k04jg02@kzoo.edu wrote:
Why would it be so difficult to have someone to pick a couple of common apps, like winzip, word, and warcraft3, and make sure they still function before every release?
Here's a common problem. I tested Warcraft 3 with 0.9.25 from compile, new wine prefix, game install, patch, start, battle.net all this weekend and it worked fine. Not everyone receives the same experience. I'm the maintainer so I do know when it regresses for me and usually I fix it right then because I can. And I have been able to keep track the git almost daily so problems with Warcraft 3 have actually remained minimal (er I would say non-existant ... but). I cannot fix other problems unless I receive proper reports. I have no idea what Mirek's problem is and he definately has not reported it the proper way.
I do know of an open bug where there is a weird packaging/build problem or nvidia+X.org 7.1 problem that prevents Warcraft 3 from starting on ubuntu 6.10. So I actually downloaded it installed the distro on my hard drive, which is why I did the above test with Warcraft 3. So when I did all that just to research a problem, it simply worked fine on my install of ubuntu. So I lack enough information to progress on it. Could this be Mirek's problem -- possibly. Should we have held up 0.9.25 for a rather obscure problem? Heck no. Even more reason, most people don't test tree snapshots, so the only way we know of some problems is when we make a release, and that's probably why we have releases every two weeks; so that Wine gets widespread testing.
Jesse
Hi, i am testing wine about every 3 days from current git. Warcraft 3 cant run for me if i am using option "-opengl", with direct3d (default) it is working without any problems, but it is slower. If you want i can do testing every second day (after some changes in CVS) and report problems, but i cant every time find patch which is responsible for that. I think opengl rewriting should be done internaly, not merging half of work into current CVS, because it broke so much apps.
Mirek Slugen
Jesse Allen napsal(a):
On 11/12/06, Joseph Garvin k04jg02@kzoo.edu wrote:
Why would it be so difficult to have someone to pick a couple of common apps, like winzip, word, and warcraft3, and make sure they still function before every release?
Here's a common problem. I tested Warcraft 3 with 0.9.25 from compile, new wine prefix, game install, patch, start, battle.net all this weekend and it worked fine. Not everyone receives the same experience. I'm the maintainer so I do know when it regresses for me and usually I fix it right then because I can. And I have been able to keep track the git almost daily so problems with Warcraft 3 have actually remained minimal (er I would say non-existant ... but). I cannot fix other problems unless I receive proper reports. I have no idea what Mirek's problem is and he definately has not reported it the proper way.
I do know of an open bug where there is a weird packaging/build problem or nvidia+X.org 7.1 problem that prevents Warcraft 3 from starting on ubuntu 6.10. So I actually downloaded it installed the distro on my hard drive, which is why I did the above test with Warcraft 3. So when I did all that just to research a problem, it simply worked fine on my install of ubuntu. So I lack enough information to progress on it. Could this be Mirek's problem -- possibly. Should we have held up 0.9.25 for a rather obscure problem? Heck no. Even more reason, most people don't test tree snapshots, so the only way we know of some problems is when we make a release, and that's probably why we have releases every two weeks; so that Wine gets widespread testing.
Jesse
For what it's worth, World of Warcraft is working well in opengl mode except for certain hardware... For instance ATI X series seem to have crashes however I'm not sure if this is widespread or just one or two users. ON ATI 8500 series & higher cards opengl is working well but ONLY if you add the registry key that adds DisabledExtensions. The location of this key changed between .24 & .25. You could try adding this key to see if that fixes you problems. See http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?iVersionId=5606 for details on how you add this key. ( These bugs have been reported correctly in bugzilla, just for the record ) These problems have been there for the last 5 + revisions so nothing has regressed much for WoW users... in fact more things were fixed than break for Wow.
Version .25 fixed the flicker problem in World of Warcraft for Nvidia cards. So for Wow users with Nvidia hardware 0.25 may run better than 0.24... so depending on your perspective wine may be running better then ever before.
I'd also like to stick up for the developers here, when they make a change they do it as best they can, but they have to rely upon the users to report problems, the developers can't possibly test every single app that uses opengl or D3D every time they make a change, they can maybe check one or two that they have, what users seem to forget is that they, the users are the real 'testers' and are part of the development team. Their job is to test their favorite apps then report back on issues, but expect the occasional backwards step as wine is still is in constant development. As Jesse said, that's why it's released every two weeks.
For those that rely upon wine to run their favorite application, then install your stable version of wine that runs your application somewhere other than the default installation directory and use that while still downloading and testing the latest release. Then when the latest wine breaks you application it doesn't stop you using your favorite app
Nick ---------------- Mirek wrote:
Hi, i am testing wine about every 3 days from current git. Warcraft 3 cant run for me if i am using option "-opengl", with direct3d (default) it is working without any problems, but it is slower. If you want i can do testing every second day (after some changes in CVS) and report problems, but i cant every time find patch which is responsible for that. I think opengl rewriting should be done internaly, not merging half of work into current CVS, because it broke so much apps.
Mirek Slugen
Jesse Allen napsal(a):
On 11/12/06, Joseph Garvin k04jg02@kzoo.edu wrote:
Why would it be so difficult to have someone to pick a couple of common apps, like winzip, word, and warcraft3, and make sure they still function before every release?
Here's a common problem. I tested Warcraft 3 with 0.9.25 from compile, new wine prefix, game install, patch, start, battle.net all this weekend and it worked fine. Not everyone receives the same experience. I'm the maintainer so I do know when it regresses for me and usually I fix it right then because I can. And I have been able to keep track the git almost daily so problems with Warcraft 3 have actually remained minimal (er I would say non-existant ... but). I cannot fix other problems unless I receive proper reports. I have no idea what Mirek's problem is and he definately has not reported it the proper way.
I do know of an open bug where there is a weird packaging/build problem or nvidia+X.org 7.1 problem that prevents Warcraft 3 from starting on ubuntu 6.10. So I actually downloaded it installed the distro on my hard drive, which is why I did the above test with Warcraft 3. So when I did all that just to research a problem, it simply worked fine on my install of ubuntu. So I lack enough information to progress on it. Could this be Mirek's problem -- possibly. Should we have held up 0.9.25 for a rather obscure problem? Heck no. Even more reason, most people don't test tree snapshots, so the only way we know of some problems is when we make a release, and that's probably why we have releases every two weeks; so that Wine gets widespread testing.
Jesse
On 11/13/06, Mirek thunder.m@czela.net wrote:
Hi, i am testing wine about every 3 days from current git. Warcraft 3 cant run for me if i am using option "-opengl", with direct3d (default) it is working without any problems, but it is slower. If you want i can do testing every second day (after some changes in CVS) and report problems, but i cant every time find patch which is responsible for that. I think opengl rewriting should be done internaly, not merging half of work into current CVS, because it broke so much apps.
Mirek Slugen
Again, let me reiterate, that OpenGL and Warcraft 3 works here. So I have no idea what your problem is. You really ought to open a bug number and post a log with WINEDEBUG=+wgl at least. Or point me to an open bug number for it. And you should tell what video card and driver you have.
Jesse
Ok, some problems was caused by incompatibility betwen nVidia 9742 drivers and wine, now i have again perfect working 9625 drivers. Here is updated list:
1. 3DMark 2003 - cant open setings menu - this has been fixed in last 2 days in CVS 2. 3DMark 2003 - with GLSL, almost all working test are broken (bad graphic) - still there! 3. 3DMark 2003 - with ARB is about 25% slower - 4. HL2 Episode One - with GLSL some characters are black - still there! 5. NFS: MW - with ARB it is slower - 6. W3 - cannot run, because of Opengl init - nvidia 9742 issue, now it is ok 7. W3 FT - same as W3 - nvidia 9742 issue, now it is ok 8. nVidiaSDK - opengl demos in nVidia are not working anymore - still there 9. nVidiaSDK - some Direct3D demos are broken more than in release 0.9.24 - still there 9. Prey - not working - nvidia 9742 issue, now it is ok 10. Flatout - with GLSL black cars and some items in game (i didnt test it before 2 days)
Mirek Slugen
Jesse Allen napsal(a):
On 11/13/06, Mirek thunder.m@czela.net wrote:
Hi, i am testing wine about every 3 days from current git. Warcraft 3 cant run for me if i am using option "-opengl", with direct3d (default) it is working without any problems, but it is slower. If you want i can do testing every second day (after some changes in CVS) and report problems, but i cant every time find patch which is responsible for that. I think opengl rewriting should be done internaly, not merging half of work into current CVS, because it broke so much apps.
Mirek Slugen
Again, let me reiterate, that OpenGL and Warcraft 3 works here. So I have no idea what your problem is. You really ought to open a bug number and post a log with WINEDEBUG=+wgl at least. Or point me to an open bug number for it. And you should tell what video card and driver you have.
Jesse
On 11/13/06, Mirek thunder.m@czela.net wrote:
Ok, some problems was caused by incompatibility betwen nVidia 9742 drivers and wine, now i have again perfect working 9625 drivers. Here is updated list:
Then your bug number is 6637. Please continue the discussion about this problem there.
Yes and no, some issues was because of drivers, but some wasnt, now i have old working drivers back and there are still about 35% apps that are working significant worst in wine 0.9.25, so it is not only problem of new drivers.
Mirek
Jesse Allen napsal(a):
On 11/13/06, Mirek thunder.m@czela.net wrote:
Ok, some problems was caused by incompatibility betwen nVidia 9742 drivers and wine, now i have again perfect working 9625 drivers. Here is updated list:
Then your bug number is 6637. Please continue the discussion about this problem there.
On 11/13/06, Mirek thunder.m@czela.net wrote:
Yes and no, some issues was because of drivers, but some wasnt, now i have old working drivers back and there are still about 35% apps that are working significant worst in wine 0.9.25, so it is not only problem of new drivers.
Mirek
Please report your bugs through the proper methods. You can't just dump a list of problems, provide little information, and expect all to be addresssed at the same time and effort. I'm not going to address your bugs here and I don't recognize all of them.
Ok, i found patch which caused regression in 3DMark 2003, Flatout and some other games and apps, it is this patch: kernel32: Better workaround for the lack of locale environment variables on MacOS from Alexandre Julliard
Mirek
Jesse Allen napsal(a):
On 11/13/06, Mirek thunder.m@czela.net wrote:
Yes and no, some issues was because of drivers, but some wasnt, now i have old working drivers back and there are still about 35% apps that are working significant worst in wine 0.9.25, so it is not only problem of new drivers.
Mirek
Please report your bugs through the proper methods. You can't just dump a list of problems, provide little information, and expect all to be addresssed at the same time and effort. I'm not going to address your bugs here and I don't recognize all of them.
"Mirek" thunder.m@czela.net wrote:
Ok, i found patch which caused regression in 3DMark 2003, Flatout and some other games and apps, it is this patch: kernel32: Better workaround for the lack of locale environment variables on MacOS from Alexandre Julliard
It's already fixed in the current git.
:) No, in current git or cvs it is still not fixed, i tried it again before 10 minutes.
Mirek
Dmitry Timoshkov napsal(a):
"Mirek" thunder.m@czela.net wrote:
Ok, i found patch which caused regression in 3DMark 2003, Flatout and some other games and apps, it is this patch: kernel32: Better workaround for the lack of locale environment variables on MacOS from Alexandre Julliard
It's already fixed in the current git.
Hi,
My regression test shows same as you. Dreamfall is broken because of this patch.
2006. november 14. 16.07 dátummal Mirek ezt írta:
:) No, in current git or cvs it is still not fixed, i tried it again
before 10 minutes.
Mirek
Dmitry Timoshkov napsal(a):
"Mirek" thunder.m@czela.net wrote:
Ok, i found patch which caused regression in 3DMark 2003, Flatout and some other games and apps, it is this patch: kernel32: Better workaround for the lack of locale environment variables on MacOS from Alexandre Julliard
It's already fixed in the current git.
Le mardi 14 novembre 2006 à 16:07 +0100, Mirek a écrit :
:) No, in current git or cvs it is still not fixed, i tried it again before 10 minutes.
Mirek
Dmitry Timoshkov napsal(a):
"Mirek" thunder.m@czela.net wrote:
Ok, i found patch which caused regression in 3DMark 2003, Flatout and some other games and apps, it is this patch: kernel32: Better workaround for the lack of locale environment variables on MacOS from Alexandre Julliard
It's already fixed in the current git.
Again, please open a bug about this regression. wine-devel is not bugzilla.
And _please_ stop top-posting (at least on bottom-posted threads), it makes it really hard and uncomfortable to read.
Thanks,
Regression caused by this patch is still not fixed in current CVS.
Mirek wrote:
Hi, i just instaled wine 0.9.25 (i had 0.9.24) and it is full of regressions, why is this possible, why is not there someone who can test wine before it came out to new release?
- 3DMark 2003 - cant open setigns menu
- 3DMark 2003 - with GLSL, almost all working test are broken (bad
graphic) 3. 3DMark 2003 - with ARB is about 25% slower 4. HL2 Episode One - Some characters are black 5. NFS: MW - with ARB it is slower 6. W3 - cannot run, because of Opengl init 7. W3 FT - same as W3 8. nVidiaSDK - opengl demos in nVidia are not working anymore 9. nVidiaSDK - some Direct3D demos are broken more than in release 0.9.24 9. Prey - not working
This is pretty big list, almost half of my apps are not working, or working worst than before, it is sad.
Mirek Slugen
Hi Mirek,
The best thing to do to help solve this is to fetch the current git version of wine using the instructions at http://www.winehq.org/site/git
Then, use the tool git-bisect to mark 0.9.24 as the last know good build and 0.9.25 as the broken build. It will bisect the patches and enable you to very quickly find the patch that caused the problem.
This page explains how to use it: http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-bisect.html
Thanks!
Phil
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Dmitry Timoshkov -
Jesse Allen -
Jonathan Ernst -
Joseph Garvin -
Kovács András -
Mirek -
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Peter Beutner -
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