User forum thread: "how can we improve WINE?"

[David Gerard]

http://forum.winehq.org/viewtopic.php?t=4403

Some highly impractical ideas, but certainly having the users throw
ideas around should inspire wine-devel (and Codeweavers) :-)

- d.

[Warren Dumortier]

Here's what i done for now:
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/8531/winecfgnew.png

Before continuing, i would like to know if it is acceptable?
Sorry is in french, but "Options avancées" means "Advanced options". A
dialog will then pop up and let the user choose advanced options (video
memory size, rendering mode...).

I do not find how to create a dialog with the callback, but i'll find! ;)
Also, someone knows how to launch wine in another language? (System var?).
Thanks.

2009/4/5 David Gerard
> http://forum.winehq.org/viewtopic.php?t=4403
>
> Some highly impractical ideas, but certainly having the users throw
> ideas around should inspire wine-devel (and Codeweavers) :-)
> - d.

[Roderick Colenbrander]

I'm not a favor of adding options as we try to autodetect everything. Users
shouldn't touch them using winecfg in general. If you check lets say appdb
you see a lot of tutorials recommending certain options while the authors
have no idea what the options do and I have seen various tutorials where
recommended registry options make things worse. GLSL is enabled by default
and it should only be disabled in very rare cases, the same for various of
the other options.

Roderick

On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 6:27 PM, Warren Dumortier wrote:
> Here's what i done for now:
> http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/8531/winecfgnew.png
>
> Before continuing, i would like to know if it is acceptable?
> Sorry is in french, but "Options avancées" means "Advanced options". A
> dialog will then pop up and let the user choose advanced options (video
> memory size, rendering mode...).
>
> I do not find how to create a dialog with the callback, but i'll find! ;)
> Also, someone knows how to launch wine in another language? (System var?).
> Thanks.
>
> 2009/4/5 David Gerard
>
> http://forum.winehq.org/viewtopic.php?t=4403
> > Some highly impractical ideas, but certainly having the users throw
> > ideas around should inspire wine-devel (and Codeweavers) :-)
> > - d.

[Austin English]

On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 2:36 PM, Roderick Colenbrander
 wrote:
> I'm not a favor of adding options as we try to autodetect everything. Users
> shouldn't touch them using winecfg in general. If you check lets say appdb
> you see a lot of tutorials recommending certain options while the authors
> have no idea what the options do and I have seen various tutorials where
> recommended registry options make things worse. GLSL is enabled by default
> and it should only be disabled in very rare cases, the same for various of
> the other options.

Again, the same argument can be made for native dlls. Tons of
tutorials recommend setting just about every dll to native, and
winecfg allows this. Should we not allow people to set more than 3
dlls to native?

[Henri Verbeet]

2009/4/5 Austin English :
> Again, the same argument can be made for native dlls. Tons of
> tutorials recommend setting just about every dll to native, and
> winecfg allows this. Should we not allow people to set more than 3
> dlls to native?

You could certainly make an argument for not allowing that to be done
through winecfg. It's generally harder to remove things once they're
already in though.

[Warren Dumortier]

People, is adding a warning message not enough?
Here's what i set as message in the configuration window in my patch:

Only change these settings if you know what you're doing. Changing
these values may result in unexpected behaviors and unstability.

Any suggestions are welcome concerning the warning, my patch is almost done.

[Ben Klein]

2009/4/6 Henri Verbeet :
> 2009/4/5 Austin English :
> > Again, the same argument can be made for native dlls. Tons of
> > tutorials recommend setting just about every dll to native, and
> > winecfg allows this. Should we not allow people to set more than 3
> > dlls to native?
>
> You could certainly make an argument for not allowing that to be done
> through winecfg. It's generally harder to remove things once they're
> already in though.

I agree with Henri here. UseGLSL and OffscreenRendering are
approaching the point where they don't need to be changed. Detecting
the amount of video memory should be preferred over setting it
manually. Most of these settings the users *shouldn't* be screwing
around with even via regedit (UsefulRegistryKeys could be renamed to
UsefulIfYouKnowWhatYoureDoingRegistryKeys).

Native DLLs are not approaching the point where they don't need to be
touched (or at least, not as fast as the D3D settings). There are
still many cases where native gdiplus, quartz, dinput, d3dx9_## etc.
are required to get your app working, and having these configurable
via winecfg provides a *much* easier way to do application-specific
overrides than doing it manually via regedit.

Of course, it's not me Warren has to convince, but AJ :)

[Austin English]

On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 7:53 PM, Ben Klein  wrote:
> I agree with Henri here. UseGLSL and OffscreenRendering are
> approaching the point where they don't need to be changed. Detecting
> the amount of video memory should be preferred over setting it
> manually. Most of these settings the users *shouldn't* be screwing
> around with even via regedit (UsefulRegistryKeys could be renamed to
> UsefulIfYouKnowWhatYoureDoingRegistryKeys).
>
> Native DLLs are not approaching the point where they don't need to be
> touched (or at least, not as fast as the D3D settings). There are
> still many cases where native gdiplus, quartz, dinput, d3dx9_## etc.
> are required to get your app working, and having these configurable
> via winecfg provides a *much* easier way to do application-specific
> overrides than doing it manually via regedit.
>
> Of course, it's not me Warren has to convince, but AJ :)

We've been approaching that point for a while, but we're not there
yet. In an ideal world, winecfg shouldn't be needed at all. But the
fact is that we have it to make adjustments to settings to allow
applications to run. Until D3D is fixed, something like this will make
it easier on the users.

[Ben Klein]

2009/4/6 Austin English :
> On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 7:53 PM, Ben Klein  wrote:
> > I agree with Henri here. UseGLSL and OffscreenRendering are
> > approaching the point where they don't need to be changed. Detecting
> > the amount of video memory should be preferred over setting it
> > manually. Most of these settings the users *shouldn't* be screwing
> > around with even via regedit (UsefulRegistryKeys could be renamed to
> > UsefulIfYouKnowWhatYoureDoingRegistryKeys).
> >
> > Native DLLs are not approaching the point where they don't need to be
> > touched (or at least, not as fast as the D3D settings). There are
> > still many cases where native gdiplus, quartz, dinput, d3dx9_## etc.
> > are required to get your app working, and having these configurable
> > via winecfg provides a *much* easier way to do application-specific
> > overrides than doing it manually via regedit.
> >
> > Of course, it's not me Warren has to convince, but AJ :)
>
> We've been approaching that point for a while, but we're not there
> yet. In an ideal world, winecfg shouldn't be needed at all. But the
> fact is that we have it to make adjustments to settings to allow
> applications to run. Until D3D is fixed, something like this will make
> it easier on the users.

Why not make ALL the UsefulRegistryKeys editable via winecfg? (I'm not
advocating it, I'm asking for opinions :) )

[Warren Dumortier]

Of course it would not be needed if Wine was perfect... ^_^

All Direct3D keys are configurable through Winecfg with my patch! :D

2009/4/6 Ben Klein :
> 2009/4/6 Austin English :
> > On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 7:53 PM, Ben Klein  wrote:
> > > I agree with Henri here. UseGLSL and OffscreenRendering are
> > > approaching the point where they don't need to be changed. Detecting
> > > the amount of video memory should be preferred over setting it
> > > manually. Most of these settings the users *shouldn't* be screwing
> > > around with even via regedit (UsefulRegistryKeys could be renamed to
> > > UsefulIfYouKnowWhatYoureDoingRegistryKeys).
> > >
> > > Native DLLs are not approaching the point where they don't need to be
> > > touched (or at least, not as fast as the D3D settings). There are
> > > still many cases where native gdiplus, quartz, dinput, d3dx9_## etc.
> > > are required to get your app working, and having these configurable
> > > via winecfg provides a *much* easier way to do application-specific
> > > overrides than doing it manually via regedit.
> > >
> > > Of course, it's not me Warren has to convince, but AJ :)
> >
> > We've been approaching that point for a while, but we're not there
> > yet. In an ideal world, winecfg shouldn't be needed at all. But the
> > fact is that we have it to make adjustments to settings to allow
> > applications to run. Until D3D is fixed, something like this will make
> > it easier on the users.
>
> Why not make ALL the UsefulRegistryKeys editable via winecfg? (I'm not
> advocating it, I'm asking for opinions :) )

[Ben Klein]

2009/4/6 Warren Dumortier :
> Of course it would not be needed if Wine was perfect... ^_^
>
> All Direct3D keys are configurable through Winecfg with my patch! :D

You mean all that are listed in UsefulRegistryKeys. Why stop there?
Why not do the same for the audio keys, OpenGL keys etc?

[Warren Dumortier]

What do you want to add more? I tought on adding MouseWarpOverride,
but the others are not really needed.
Here's the final state of my patch, any suggestions are welcome:
http://i40.tinypic.com/2nqv0au.png

2009/4/6 Ben Klein :
> 2009/4/6 Warren Dumortier :
> > Of course it would not be needed if Wine was perfect... ^_^
> >
> > All Direct3D keys are configurable through Winecfg with my patch! :D
>
> You mean all that are listed in UsefulRegistryKeys. Why stop there?
> Why not do the same for the audio keys, OpenGL keys etc?

[Stefan Dösinger]

I still don't like the idea of offering those settings, the energy should 
rather go into fixing the reasons why the registry keys exist, but here are a 
few comments:

* The video memory is normally autodetected. You should have something like a 
checkbox that says "override video memory", or something like 0 = autodetect

* GDI is not the default ddraw renderer. Neither is opengl. It is autodetected 
based on what the game requests. If you default to GDI, you disable 3D for 
d3d7 and earlier apps.

[Warren Dumortier]

People, is adding a warning message not enough?
Here's what i set as message in the configuration window in my patch:

Only change these settings if you know what you're doing. Changing
these values may result in unexpected behaviors and unstability.

Any suggestions are welcome concerning the warning, my patch is almost done.

[David Gerard]

2009/4/5 Warren Dumortier :
> Here's what i set as message in the configuration window in my patch:
> Only change these settings if you know what you're doing. Changing
> these values may result in unexpected behaviors and unstability.

Also include a "revert to default" button?

May be worth seeing how or if this fits in with AJ's vision for Wine,
i.e. if it'd ever go in under any circumstances ...

- d.

[Warren Dumortier]

2009/4/6 David Gerard :
> 2009/4/5 Warren Dumortier :
> > Here's what i set as message in the configuration window in my patch:
> > Only change these settings if you know what you're doing. Changing
> > these values may result in unexpected behaviors and unstability.
>
> Also include a "revert to default" button?
>
> May be worth seeing how or if this fits in with AJ's vision for Wine,
> i.e. if it'd ever go in under any circumstances ...
> - d.

Nice idea, will certainly add a reset button, thanks.