Sat, 25 Aug 2012 14:44, Oleg Yarigin wrote:
When I edited pages in the WineHQ Wiki, I notised, its markup lankuage isn`t so good as MediaWiki`s one. How do you think about moving the Wiki into MediaWiki engine? Besides, moving each language section of the Wiki into separated subdomain (like in Wikipedia) would be a good idea too.
I've been working a lot on the wiki recently, and I actually brought up something similar in this thread: http://www.winehq.org/pipermail/wine-devel/2012-July/096198.html While I'm busy with other things right now, I wanted to discuss this in more detail in the near future, particularly how it ties into possibly migrating the entire site over to a CMS.
The Moinmoin syntax was new to me too, but after using it a little, I don't mind it too much. There are definitely a few missing features and rough edges compared to MediaWiki. However, and this is just my impression, I think MediaWiki has really evolved to fit Wikipedia's needs. I'm not sure how well it integrates (style-wise at least) if you don't run your entire site off of it, and while I haven't actually looked at MediaWiki's code, I've heard that it can be really tricky to setup, maintain, and reprogram.
There are some pluggable parsers for Moinmoin, and there may be one that allows MediaWiki syntax. After going through and checking, categorizing, and editing so many pages, I definitely agree with your suggestion that each language be given a domain, instead of one flat namespace. Then maybe just add a single common "translation" menu to the side toolbar?
I've come to the opinion that we should probably stick with Moinmoin, and migrate to a new engine other than MediaWiki only if there are strong reasons. What might be best is if we actually got in touch with some of the Moinmoin developers and put in some feature requests. Helping with the wiki's engine is on my list so I'd like to hear some more opinions.
-Kyle
Hi all,
I'm a MoinMoin contributor, one of MoinMoin's participating students in this year's Summer of Code.
2012/8/26 Kyle Auble randomidman48@yahoo.com:
Sat, 25 Aug 2012 14:44, Oleg Yarigin wrote:
When I edited pages in the WineHQ Wiki, I notised, its markup lankuage isn`t so good as MediaWiki`s one. How do you think about moving the Wiki into MediaWiki engine? Besides, moving each language section of the Wiki into separated subdomain (like in Wikipedia) would be a good idea too.
I've been working a lot on the wiki recently, and I actually brought up something similar in this thread: http://www.winehq.org/pipermail/wine-devel/2012-July/096198.html While I'm busy with other things right now, I wanted to discuss this in more detail in the near future, particularly how it ties into possibly migrating the entire site over to a CMS.
The Moinmoin syntax was new to me too, but after using it a little, I don't mind it too much. There are definitely a few missing features and rough edges compared to MediaWiki. However, and this is just my impression, I think MediaWiki has really evolved to fit Wikipedia's needs. I'm not sure how well it integrates (style-wise at least) if you don't run your entire site off of it, and while I haven't actually looked at MediaWiki's code, I've heard that it can be really tricky to setup, maintain, and reprogram.
There are some pluggable parsers for Moinmoin, and there may be one that allows MediaWiki syntax. After going through and checking, categorizing, and editing so many pages, I definitely agree with your suggestion that each language be given a domain, instead of one flat namespace. Then maybe just add a single common "translation" menu to the side toolbar?
Indeed there is a MediaWiki parser[1].
Also, take a look at MoinMoin 2.0[2]. It has multiple markups support out of the box (including mediawiki of course). You can even mix them in a single wiki instance - this is not necessarily a good idea, but it helps when you have to migrate some content from another wiki by hand.
A namespace branch is also under development. [3]
Another enhancement that might intereset you: the storage layer has been greatly enhanced, you can now use almost arbitrary databases as the storage in case you are worried about possible performance issue with the directory-based storage; [4]
It's not production-ready yet, but it's definitely worth waiting for. :)
I've come to the opinion that we should probably stick with Moinmoin, and migrate to a new engine other than MediaWiki only if there are strong reasons. What might be best is if we actually got in touch with some of the Moinmoin developers and put in some feature requests. Helping with the wiki's engine is on my list so I'd like to hear some more opinions.
Feel free to join #moin and #moin-dev channels on freenode.
Feature requests are welcome, but be noted that MoinMoin 2.0 is the current development version (it's not a development "branch" since the codebase is almost a total rewrite) and quite likely the feature you want is already there (or a TODO). :)
Try out MoinMoin 2.0 at this minefield[5]. The last Summer of Code[6] saw a few interesting enhancements like greatly improved themes, support for blog and ticket system (disclaimer: ticket system is my project), but the test site has not been updated yet. I have talked to the admin on #moin-dev, and I'll report back when it has been updated.
1. http://www.moinmo.in/MediaWiki 2. http://www.moinmo.in/MoinMoin2.0 3. http://www.moinmo.in/MoinMoin2.0/Namespaces 4. http://www.moinmo.in/MoinMoin2.0#Storage_Layers:_stores.2C_backends.2C_middl... 5. http://test.moinmo.in/ 6. http://www.moinmo.in/GoogleSoc2012
2012/8/26 Cheer Xiao xiaqqaix@gmail.com:
... snip ... Try out MoinMoin 2.0 at this minefield[5]. The last Summer of Code[6] saw a few interesting enhancements like greatly improved themes, support for blog and ticket system (disclaimer: ticket system is my project), but the test site has not been updated yet. I have talked to the admin on #moin-dev, and I'll report back when it has been updated.
The test site [1] was just updated, please give it a try :) After registering you may want to try out the new "foobar" theme. The theme setting can be accessed by clicking "settings" at top and then "Wiki Appearance Settings" tab, or directly via this URL[2].
Your are welcome to report bugs at the issue tracker[3], but the obvious bugs should be already there.
PS. Currently the hashed password is publicly accessible, so be sure to use a weak password.)
1. http://test.moinmo.in/ 2. http://test.moinmo.in/%2Busersettings#ui 3. https://bitbucket.org/thomaswaldmann/moin-2.0/issues
Am 26.08.2012 07:16, schrieb Cheer Xiao:
2012/8/26 Cheer Xiao xiaqqaix@gmail.com:
... snip ... Try out MoinMoin 2.0 at this minefield[5]. The last Summer of Code[6] saw a few interesting enhancements like greatly improved themes, support for blog and ticket system (disclaimer: ticket system is my project), but the test site has not been updated yet. I have talked to the admin on #moin-dev, and I'll report back when it has been updated.
The test site [1] was just updated, please give it a try :) After registering you may want to try out the new "foobar" theme. The theme setting can be accessed by clicking "settings" at top and then "Wiki Appearance Settings" tab, or directly via this URL[2].
Looks good (i also like the foobar theme), but sometimes weird. To add a new page i had to click through some sites first, to confirm it i had to click OK at the top(!?) and there were no preview option... Then i copied the "source" of a wiki entry from wine into it and viewed the result, all listings and tables work fine but links like: [http://source.winehq.org/git/wine.git/?a=search&h=HEAD&st=commit&... ARM commits] are not recognized, so i'm rather scared of upgrading or did i missed something? (http://test.moinmo.in/ARM)
Further it seems a bit more complicated with Wine, the moinmoin wiki is sponsored by http://lattica.com/ (whatever sponsored means, didn't find further information) and the code is not accessable via a wine git repo (maybe it should be in tools.git, website.git or its own). This also leads to the fact that we still have no new wiki theme years after the theme change on the website.
Now that we upgraded the Forum engine we (we as in laxdragon xD) could maybe do something about the wiki, it needs love. It seems Kyle is doing a good job at the content, but the content is not everything.
2012/8/26 André Hentschel nerv@dawncrow.de:
Am 26.08.2012 07:16, schrieb Cheer Xiao:
2012/8/26 Cheer Xiao xiaqqaix@gmail.com:
... snip ... Try out MoinMoin 2.0 at this minefield[5]. The last Summer of Code[6] saw a few interesting enhancements like greatly improved themes, support for blog and ticket system (disclaimer: ticket system is my project), but the test site has not been updated yet. I have talked to the admin on #moin-dev, and I'll report back when it has been updated.
The test site [1] was just updated, please give it a try :) After registering you may want to try out the new "foobar" theme. The theme setting can be accessed by clicking "settings" at top and then "Wiki Appearance Settings" tab, or directly via this URL[2].
Looks good (i also like the foobar theme), but sometimes weird. To add a new page i had to click through some sites first, to confirm it i had to click OK at the top(!?) and there were no preview option... Then i copied the "source" of a wiki entry from wine into it and viewed the result, all listings and tables work fine but links like: [http://source.winehq.org/git/wine.git/?a=search&h=HEAD&st=commit&... ARM commits] are not recognized, so i'm rather scared of upgrading or did i missed something? (http://test.moinmo.in/ARM)
The markup syntax has changed a bit, and now you have to say [[http://www.example.com%7Cexample]] (double brackets, required bar). Single brackets are gone since some 1.x version I think.
And yes, as I noted in a previous post moin2 is *not* production-ready yet and I don't suggest you jump ship now. :)
What I do strongly suggest, however, is that you upgrade to moin1.9 first, since 1) there has been many security fixes[1] which are not backported to old versions, and 2) upgrade to moin2 will only be supported from moin1.9.
Instructions on upgrading are available in the moin1.9 source tree[2]; also check out the moin1.9 installation doc[3]. If you encounter any problem during the upgrade, feel free to ask on #moin channel on freenode.
Further it seems a bit more complicated with Wine, the moinmoin wiki is sponsored by http://lattica.com/ (whatever sponsored means, didn't find further information) and the code is not accessable via a wine git repo (maybe it should be in tools.git, website.git or its own). This also leads to the fact that we still have no new wiki theme years after the theme change on the website.
Now that we upgraded the Forum engine we (we as in laxdragon xD) could maybe do something about the wiki, it needs love. It seems Kyle is doing a good job at the content, but the content is not everything.
Looking forward to good news.
1. http://moinmo.in/SecurityFixes 2. http://hg.moinmo.in/moin/1.9/file/0e58d9bcd3bd/docs/ 3. http://master19.moinmo.in/InstallDocs
Finally I got an answer from Jeremy White, wine site admin:
Hi Oleg,
On 08/26/2012 08:21 AM, Oleg Yarigin wrote:
Good time of a day, Jeremy.
I write to you as to a WEB-administrator of WineHQ server about some ideas of site functionality improvement:
1. How is about moving WineHQ Wiki onto Wikimedia engine and breakit into multiple language trurd-level domains (like interwiki in Wikipedia)? I am ready to move the Wiki`s material from old one (wiki.winehq.org) to new one. A discussion of this idea is in August wine-devel pipemail, "About WineHQ Wiki" thread.
I'm afraid that this is something best discussed on the wine-devel list. And the person you really need to persuade is Dimi Paun - he runs the Wiki.
2. How is about moving a whole site from Apache web server toCherokee web server? I heared, it is much faster.
Are we having a problem with Apache being too slow? I think you'll find us very reluctant to make change for no driving reason. Again, if you are finding a problem with the current web site, please share that on the wine-devel mailing list.
Cheers,
Jeremy
Now I wait an answer from Dimi Paun.
Well, in addition, how do you think, is any necessarity there to move wine site and wiki from Apache to Cherokee?
---
Oleg
On 08/28/2012 04:47 AM, Oleg Yarigin wrote:
Well, in addition, how do you think, is any necessarity there to move wine site and wiki from Apache to Cherokee?
Not going to happen anytime in the near future. I won't say never however.
-N
Tues, Aug 28, 2012 4:47 AM, Oleg Yarigin wrote:
Now I wait an answer from Dimi Paun.
Well, in addition, how do you think, is any necessarity there to move wine site and wiki from Apache to Cherokee?
While I think it's good to keep alternatives in mind as new technology comes out, I wouldn't want to switch the actual http server out until it starts having noticeable problems, or in the distant future once higher priorities have been taken care of.
For me, WineHQ itself seems to be really fast, and as we were discussing earlier in the thread, the wiki is hosted at Lattica, which may not have the same hardware resources or bandwidth of WineHQ.
If you're mainly noticing problems with the wiki, that may also be that we're using an outdated version of moinmoin. Cheer Xiao was saying that Moinmoin 2.0 will allow Mediawiki syntax so I'd recommend upgrading Moinmoin, then converting the pages to Mediawiki syntax.
I've never run a real Apache server myself (just played with it on my computer), but while it can be a pain to set up, it is battle-tested. Since the site admins would have to do all the dirty work, I feel like this should be their call in the end.
However, I believe all the content on WineHQ & the wiki are under the LGPL so if you really wanted to, I'd think you could try testing a mirror of the site as a proof of concept, running Cherokee on your own computer. If you can show the advantages outweigh the trouble of switching over, the site admins would probably be more willing to consider it.
Rather than switching out the http server, I think there is some interest in moving WineHQ over to a web-framework/CMS. I wanted to handle the wiki first, but afterwards if there's still demand for it, I'd like to try helping make the jump to a CMS.
-Kyle
28.08.2012 19:50, Kyle Auble пишет
If you're mainly noticing problems with the wiki, that may also be that we're using an outdated version of moinmoin. Cheer Xiao was saying that Moinmoin 2.0 will allow Mediawiki syntax so I'd recommend upgrading Moinmoin, then converting the pages to Mediawiki syntax.
Well, let`s try.
However, I believe all the content on WineHQ & the wiki are under the LGPL so if you really wanted to, I'd think you could try testing a mirror of the site as a proof of concept, running Cherokee on your own computer.
Well, that`t a good idea to run Wikimedia version at my computer. In addition, I will be able make all configuration properly.
I will write there, when I buy a static address at my provider and get a domain name, OK?
Rather than switching out the http server, I think there is some interest in moving WineHQ over to a web-framework/CMS.
Thank you!I got an idea to create CMS-based WineHQ site mirror on my computer too.
---
Oleg
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André Hentschel -
Cheer Xiao -
Jeremy Newman -
Kyle Auble -
Oleg Yarigin