On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 1:05 PM, AllenDavidNiven <AllenDavidNiven <at> globalfone.biz> wrote:
who can i pay to make this on the wine that i have is $100 ok ?
That's generous of you, but also humorous. I can't remember the last estimate we had of how much work it would take, but it's on the order of tens of thousands of dollars. That's assuming it's not impossible to get the ipod touch/iphone driver working in Wine.
-- James Hawkins
I don't know how many people I've shown linux who would convert if only it ran iTunes, I've demonstrated the operating system to dozens and it's a comon feedback I hear. Itunes is a major application and a huge inhibitor of linux adoption. But unless we get tens of thousands of dollars up front we shouldn't focus development effort on a huge attraction to the Linux operating system and lets ridicule someone when they do offer monetary support because it isn't significant enough. After all we don't want to vastly increase our potential customer base and potentially get several $70 per crossover professional license or $40 per standard license fees, but rather wait until someone writes a hefty check to port it up front.
If you build it they will come.
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On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 8:29 PM, EA Durbin ead1234@hotmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 1:05 PM, AllenDavidNiven <AllenDavidNiven <at> globalfone.biz> wrote:
who can i pay to make this on the wine that i have is $100 ok ?
That's generous of you, but also humorous. I can't remember the last estimate we had of how much work it would take, but it's on the order of tens of thousands of dollars. That's assuming it's not impossible to get the ipod touch/iphone driver working in Wine.
-- James Hawkins
I don't know how many people I've shown linux who would convert if only it ran iTunes, I've demonstrated the operating system to dozens and it's a comon feedback I hear. Itunes is a major application and a huge inhibitor of linux adoption. But unless we get tens of thousands of dollars up front we shouldn't focus development effort on a huge attraction to the Linux operating system and lets ridicule someone when they do offer monetary support because it isn't significant enough.
Lighten up, it wasn't ridicule. Allen offered his support in the way of money for this project, and I offered a realistic estimate of how much it will cost.
After all we don't want to vastly increase our potential customer base and potentially get several $70 per crossover professional license or $40 per standard license fees, but rather wait until someone writes a hefty check to port it up front.
Your idealism is all well and good until one realizes that it costs time and thus money to fix iTunes in Wine, neither of which is scarce these days. Who do you propose will fix it?
If you build it they will come.
Patches welcome.
2009/4/9 EA Durbin ead1234@hotmail.com:
After all we don't want to vastly increase our potential customer base and potentially get several $70 per crossover professional license or $40 per standard license fees, but rather wait until someone writes a hefty check to port it up front.
You're confusing Wine with Crossover. Wine does not have license fees. Wine does not ask for money if you want to use it, nor do Wine devs ask for money if you want things fixed. Wine devs typically ask for patches if you want things fixed.
Wine also does not say "we need to get this app fixed because people demand it". The closest Wine comes to that is "we need to get these API calls because a bunch of apps use them and they're all breaking".
2009/4/10 Ben Klein shacklein@gmail.com:
2009/4/9 EA Durbin ead1234@hotmail.com:
After all we don't want to vastly increase our potential customer base and potentially get several $70 per crossover professional license or $40 per standard license fees, but rather wait until someone writes a hefty check to port it up front.
You're confusing Wine with Crossover. Wine does not have license fees. Wine does not ask for money if you want to use it, nor do Wine devs ask for money if you want things fixed. Wine devs typically ask for patches if you want things fixed.
Wine also does not say "we need to get this app fixed because people demand it". The closest Wine comes to that is "we need to get these API calls because a bunch of apps use them and they're all breaking".
You're all wrong, it's maybe not a matter of money or to have more users, but to let it work for a lot of users for our current users base. It's very annoying, and a lot of Wine users might need it ATM. A lot of people have older iPods who are supported by some programs like Amarok or Rhythmbox, but not for the latest generations...
On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 4:30 PM, Warren Dumortier nwarrenfl@gmail.com wrote:
2009/4/10 Ben Klein shacklein@gmail.com:
2009/4/9 EA Durbin ead1234@hotmail.com:
After all we don't want to vastly increase our potential customer base and potentially get several $70 per crossover professional license or $40 per standard license fees, but rather wait until someone writes a hefty check to port it up front.
You're confusing Wine with Crossover. Wine does not have license fees. Wine does not ask for money if you want to use it, nor do Wine devs ask for money if you want things fixed. Wine devs typically ask for patches if you want things fixed.
Wine also does not say "we need to get this app fixed because people demand it". The closest Wine comes to that is "we need to get these API calls because a bunch of apps use them and they're all breaking".
You're all wrong, it's maybe not a matter of money or to have more users, but to let it work for a lot of users for our current users base. It's very annoying, and a lot of Wine users might need it ATM. A lot of people have older iPods who are supported by some programs like Amarok or Rhythmbox, but not for the latest generations...
Sure, it'd be useful, but that doesn't make the resources to do it magically appear.
For instance, I'd _really like_ for Rachel Bilson to pick me up and take me on a hot date tonight, but that doesn't mean it's going to magically happen.*
2009/4/11 Warren Dumortier nwarrenfl@gmail.com:
2009/4/10 Ben Klein shacklein@gmail.com:
2009/4/9 EA Durbin ead1234@hotmail.com:
After all we don't want to vastly increase our potential customer base and potentially get several $70 per crossover professional license or $40 per standard license fees, but rather wait until someone writes a hefty check to port it up front.
You're confusing Wine with Crossover. Wine does not have license fees. Wine does not ask for money if you want to use it, nor do Wine devs ask for money if you want things fixed. Wine devs typically ask for patches if you want things fixed.
You say I'm "all wrong". Am I wrong about Wine not having license fees, and not asking for money when devs start getting involved to fix things? If so, I owe a lot of money to WineHQ!
Wine also does not say "we need to get this app fixed because people demand it". The closest Wine comes to that is "we need to get these API calls because a bunch of apps use them and they're all breaking".
You're all wrong, it's maybe not a matter of money or to have more users, but to let it work for a lot of users for our current users base. It's very annoying, and a lot of Wine users might need it ATM. A lot of people have older iPods who are supported by some programs like Amarok or Rhythmbox, but not for the latest generations...
Sorry, when exactly were you appointed to decide Wine patch acceptance and implementation policy? It might be annoying, many users might *strongly desire* it ("need" is the wrong word) but unless there's someone actively submitting patches to fix it, it won't get fixed. iTunes is not an "important" application in any way, and the bugs involved are not blockers, nor do they even affect a wide range of applications.
You also seem to contradict your own argument:
and a lot of Wine users might need it ATM.
talking about support for latest generation of iPods, followed by:
A lot of people have older iPods who are supported by some programs like Amarok or Rhythmbox, but not for the latest generations...
My guess is that there are more people who have older generation iPods than those who have newer. I could be wrong, but until statistics are presented, the problem you're talking about is nowhere near as urgent as you imply.
Regardless, things don't magically get fixed because a user (no matter how many users) say "I want this fixed". Bug reports are more useful than requests like this, with extra detail provided on request. I've had some bugs resolved very quickly by providing a lot of relevant information, but there are still plenty of open bugs that have had no progress in a long time (some of mine included) because there is no one attempting to patch it. Sometimes this is a matter of effort required (like some of the nastier ddraw bugs), sometimes there's no one available who is experienced enough to write correct patches, sometimes the problem is too trivial for the experienced devs to spend their time on, since they have bigger things to worry about.
2009/4/11 Ben Klein shacklein@gmail.com:
2009/4/11 Warren Dumortier nwarrenfl@gmail.com:
2009/4/10 Ben Klein shacklein@gmail.com:
2009/4/9 EA Durbin ead1234@hotmail.com:
After all we don't want to vastly increase our potential customer base and potentially get several $70 per crossover professional license or $40 per standard license fees, but rather wait until someone writes a hefty check to port it up front.
You're confusing Wine with Crossover. Wine does not have license fees. Wine does not ask for money if you want to use it, nor do Wine devs ask for money if you want things fixed. Wine devs typically ask for patches if you want things fixed.
You say I'm "all wrong". Am I wrong about Wine not having license fees, and not asking for money when devs start getting involved to fix things? If so, I owe a lot of money to WineHQ!
Wine also does not say "we need to get this app fixed because people demand it". The closest Wine comes to that is "we need to get these API calls because a bunch of apps use them and they're all breaking".
You're all wrong, it's maybe not a matter of money or to have more users, but to let it work for a lot of users for our current users base. It's very annoying, and a lot of Wine users might need it ATM. A lot of people have older iPods who are supported by some programs like Amarok or Rhythmbox, but not for the latest generations...
Sorry, when exactly were you appointed to decide Wine patch acceptance and implementation policy? It might be annoying, many users might *strongly desire* it ("need" is the wrong word) but unless there's someone actively submitting patches to fix it, it won't get fixed. iTunes is not an "important" application in any way, and the bugs involved are not blockers, nor do they even affect a wide range of applications.
You also seem to contradict your own argument:
and a lot of Wine users might need it ATM.
talking about support for latest generation of iPods, followed by:
A lot of people have older iPods who are supported by some programs like Amarok or Rhythmbox, but not for the latest generations...
My guess is that there are more people who have older generation iPods than those who have newer. I could be wrong, but until statistics are presented, the problem you're talking about is nowhere near as urgent as you imply.
Regardless, things don't magically get fixed because a user (no matter how many users) say "I want this fixed". Bug reports are more useful than requests like this, with extra detail provided on request. I've had some bugs resolved very quickly by providing a lot of relevant information, but there are still plenty of open bugs that have had no progress in a long time (some of mine included) because there is no one attempting to patch it. Sometimes this is a matter of effort required (like some of the nastier ddraw bugs), sometimes there's no one available who is experienced enough to write correct patches, sometimes the problem is too trivial for the experienced devs to spend their time on, since they have bigger things to worry about.
What i said was to fix the installer issue for the moment, that would be something great and maybe not too difficult? Maybe i could have a look, but i will not be able to make a patch, but i'll have a look, who knows. :D
But IMO it would be good to have iTunes working, i was not saying "i would like to see everything work in iTunes".
On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 6:11 AM, Warren Dumortier nwarrenfl@gmail.com wrote:
But IMO it would be good to have iTunes working, i was not saying "i would like to see everything work in iTunes".
Well it does run, just doesn't sync right? Sounds like its already meeting your qualifiers :)
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EA Durbin -
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Warren Dumortier