The Winelib documentation is called the Winelib User's Guide, but the Wine documentation is called the Wine User Guide.
I think for consistency's sake we should rename the Wine User Guide to Wine User's Guide - afterall, it's a guide for the user, not about the user.
Thoughts?
On Sun, Oct 10, 2004 at 01:10:06AM -0700, Scott Ritchie wrote:
I think for consistency's sake we should rename the Wine User Guide to Wine User's Guide - afterall, it's a guide for the user, not about the user.
Thoughts?
Go for it.
On Sun, Oct 10, 2004 at 08:53:14AM -0400, Dimitrie O. Paun wrote:
On Sun, Oct 10, 2004 at 01:10:06AM -0700, Scott Ritchie wrote:
I think for consistency's sake we should rename the Wine User Guide to Wine User's Guide - afterall, it's a guide for the user, not about the user.
Thoughts?
Go for it.
What about the cruelty to the common apostroph? I am not a native speaker, but it looks wrong there.
Ciao, Marcu's
On niedziela 10 październik 2004 02:04 pm, Marcus Meissner wrote:
On Sun, Oct 10, 2004 at 08:53:14AM -0400, Dimitrie O. Paun wrote:
On Sun, Oct 10, 2004 at 01:10:06AM -0700, Scott Ritchie wrote:
I think for consistency's sake we should rename the Wine User Guide to Wine User's Guide - afterall, it's a guide for the user, not about the user.
Thoughts?
Go for it.
What about the cruelty to the common apostroph? I am not a native speaker, but it looks wrong there.
Actually, the apostrophe looks quite right there. Whose guide is it? The user's. Then one has user's guide, not user guide. User guide sounds like a u-channel where you'd shove users in order to keep them guided ;)
Cheers, Kuba Ober
Kuba Ober kuba@mareimbrium.org writes:
On niedziela 10 październik 2004 02:04 pm, Marcus Meissner wrote:
On Sun, Oct 10, 2004 at 08:53:14AM -0400, Dimitrie O. Paun wrote:
On Sun, Oct 10, 2004 at 01:10:06AM -0700, Scott Ritchie wrote:
I think for consistency's sake we should rename the Wine User Guide to Wine User's Guide - afterall, it's a guide for the user, not about the user.
Thoughts?
Go for it.
What about the cruelty to the common apostroph? I am not a native speaker, but it looks wrong there.
Actually, the apostrophe looks quite right there. Whose guide is it? The user's. Then one has user's guide, not user guide. User guide sounds like a u-channel where you'd shove users in order to keep them guided ;)
I have always operated on the principle that if two people can argue about it then it should be written a different way, so how about one of:
Guide for Wine Users Guide to Using Wine Wine: a guide for Users Using Wine
No apostrophes, grocer's or otherwise.
Peter
PS: I thought it out to have been "Wine Users' Guide" as it belongs to users in the plural rather than a particular user, iff ownership does not accrue to the author ....
On Thu, Oct 14, 2004 at 04:22:10PM +0100, Peter Riocreux wrote:
I have always operated on the principle that if two people can argue about it then it should be written a different way, so how about one of:
Guide for Wine Users Guide to Using Wine Wine: a guide for Users Using Wine
Hmmm, they sound/look awkward. We have a Developer's Guide, let's just be consistent. And I think this is typical naming anyway, so let's just call it User's Guide and be done with it.
--On Thursday, October 14, 2004 11:00 AM -0400 Kuba Ober kuba@mareimbrium.org wrote:
Actually, the apostrophe looks quite right there. Whose guide is it? The user's. Then one has user's guide, not user guide.
Would it not be "Users' Guide"? A guide for *all* users? (Plural)
OTOH, I just plugged "users guide" into Amazon and the results on the first page are all "User's Guide" (singular).
On Thu, Oct 14, 2004 at 09:18:23AM -0700, Kenneth Porter wrote:
--On Thursday, October 14, 2004 11:00 AM -0400 Kuba Ober kuba@mareimbrium.org wrote:
Actually, the apostrophe looks quite right there. Whose guide is it? The user's. Then one has user's guide, not user guide.
Would it not be "Users' Guide"? A guide for *all* users? (Plural)
No, we have Developer's Guide. Because we're addressing the book to *the* person reading it. In fact, you seem to have found the answer:
OTOH, I just plugged "users guide" into Amazon and the results on the first page are all "User's Guide" (singular).
:) So let's stick to User's Guide. It's the norm.
Hi,
On Thu, Oct 14, 2004 at 09:18:23AM -0700, Kenneth Porter wrote:
--On Thursday, October 14, 2004 11:00 AM -0400 Kuba Ober kuba@mareimbrium.org wrote:
Actually, the apostrophe looks quite right there. Whose guide is it? The user's. Then one has user's guide, not user guide.
Would it not be "Users' Guide"? A guide for *all* users? (Plural)
OTOH, I just plugged "users guide" into Amazon and the results on the first page are all "User's Guide" (singular).
http://groups.google.de/groups?threadm=c%3DUS%25a%3D_%25p%3DORGANIZATION%25l...
is quite interesting here.
Although I don't grok their (last posting) explanation about "for" user vs. "of" user: i.e. I don't buy the implied statement that User's Guide means "a guide of the user" (i.e. describing the user) -- I rather think its usual meaning is "the user's guide", thus a simple genitive.
While initially I wanted to follow the "most simple solution" suggestion of the last posting to drop the apostrophe, I now think that "Wine User Guide" sounds too much like "a Guide about the Wine User", so I'd still use "(the) Wine User's Guide". Grammatically it's IMHO the most correct one, i.e. expressing the intention of the Guide, to be *for* the user, most clearly.
Oh, and I like Wine Users' Guide less, since that single user reading the docu to cure his massive Wine problems at this moment really doesn't care about all the other users probably using Wine ;-)
Now I came up with an even more convincing aspect: If you think of Manual vs. Guide, then you'd most likely expect it to be worded "User Manual" and "User's Guide" (well, at least *I* would expect it).
Why???
Because it's a Guide *for* the User which is thus guiding whom? The user. So in the Manual case we have only *one* reason for apostrophe (possessive), whereas in the Guide case we have *two* reasons: both possessive *and* guidance! Or, in other words, a Guide is more tightly coupled to the User than a Manual, so an apostrophe is quite appropriate here to express that closer relationship.
And http://groups.google.de/groups?threadm=417C101295E0B74B9C712AA6BBCEEE68FDD44... is more interesting than the other thread above, since it has this little gem: ----- As a Senior Technical Writer who writes user's guides all day long, I use user's guide. I do this because the Microsoft Manual of Style lists User's Guide in its Titles of Books topic. ----- This recommendation might just be because of my reasoning above...
And then there are: http://groups.google.de/groups?threadm=DM75EJ.G9s%40freenet.carleton.ca http://groups.google.de/groups?threadm=F88sQ6KLV47ozI9Wbbj000014a5%40hotmail... http://groups.google.de/groups?threadm=m10wQRe-000BM2C%40mail.GTS.ORG
In closing, I'd like to say that I like User's Guide by far the most, but I'm certainly not authoritative on that one ;-)
We could add a blurb about why the User* Guide is named in a certain way in the intro section, too ;-)) (just joking)
Andreas Mohr
P.S.: God, so much time wasted to prove writing of such a minor point ;-)
[...]
We could add a blurb about why the User* Guide is named in a certain way in the intro section, too ;-)) (just joking)
[...]
P.S.: God, so much time wasted to prove writing of such a minor point ;-)
Let's see if LyX folks decide to implement it, then you might as well port your documentation to LyX.
http://bugzilla.lyx.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1705
I'm in a funny mood today.
Cheers, Kuba Ober
Hi all,
On Thursday 14 October 2004 16:00, Kuba Ober wrote:
On niedziela 10 październik 2004 02:04 pm, Marcus Meissner wrote:
On Sun, Oct 10, 2004 at 08:53:14AM -0400, Dimitrie O. Paun wrote:
On Sun, Oct 10, 2004 at 01:10:06AM -0700, Scott Ritchie wrote:
I think for consistency's sake we should rename the Wine User Guide to Wine User's Guide [...]
What about the cruelty to the common apostroph? I am not a native speaker, but it looks wrong there.
Actually, the apostrophe looks quite right there. Whose guide is it? The user's. Then one has user's guide, not user guide. User guide sounds like a u-channel where you'd shove users in order to keep them guided ;)
If wine had only a single user then "Wine User's Guide" would be correct; but, as we hope wine has multiple users then "Wine Users' Guide" is correct.
(general rule is: if the possessing object doesn't end with s, add 's. If it does, then add just the apostrophe. For example: if Simons owns a ball, which is red, then Simons' ball is red.)
Cheers,
Paul.
PS. Have a wee goosie at http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors
On Thu, Oct 14, 2004 at 07:11:59PM +0100, Paul Millar wrote:
If it [the possessing object] does [end with an s], then add just the apostrophe. For example: if Simons owns a ball, which is red, then Simons' ball is red.)
Actually this is generally regarded as archaic, at least in the UK[1] - the form Simons's ball is usually preferred. One exception is with the name Jesus where we would have Jesus' ball.
Huw. [1] See Fowler's Modern English Usage.
Kuba Ober wrote:
On niedziela 10 październik 2004 02:04 pm, Marcus Meissner wrote:
What about the cruelty to the common apostroph? I am not a native speaker, but it looks wrong there.
Actually, the apostrophe looks quite right there. Whose guide is it? The user's. Then one has user's guide, not user guide. User guide sounds like a u-channel where you'd shove users in order to keep them guided ;)
Cheers, Kuba Ober
It's is not, it isn't ain't, and it's it's, not its, if you mean it is. If you don't, it's its. Then too, it's hers. It isn't her's. It isn't our's either. It's ours, and likewise yours and theirs. -- Oxford University Press, Edpress News
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Andreas Mohr -
Dimitrie O. Paun -
Huw D M Davies -
Jakob Eriksson -
Kenneth Porter -
Kuba Ober -
Marcus Meissner -
Paul Millar -
Peter Riocreux -
Scott Ritchie